Fully battened mainsail

[Blueboatman]

I got a fully battened main for my Rustler 36. I think for general cruising boat the benefits, at the best, are marginal. There is a considerable increase in weight and complexity. I rather regret in not getting a 'vanilla' conventionally battened sail.

Well on my R36 I had both, vanilla purchased and carried as unused spare . Used it for a week to make sure it fitted . In light airs and slatty swell IMO the full battens ‘ did it’ for me . The boat got moving earlier and better in light airs .

I modified the Ladyjacks with a natty ‘reefing’ line that would ‘furl’ the Lazyjacks in tight again the mast if hoisting in any sort of swell , otherwise as noted elsewhere the middle 2 full battens tended to foul the lazyjacks a bit too often ..then you had to drop some of that hard hoisted hefty sail …

 

[alahol2]

28 foot, masthead rig. I'm looking for a new main this winter. Very drawn to FB having had one on a 32 foot cat for many years.
But... my current boom is an old design with no adjustable clew outhaul and external slab reefing lines (Barton slab reefing kit).
Does the team think I would be better off getting a) a full batten main and retain the existing boom or b) a new boom with a 'standard' main. Not sure the purse will stretch to both.

Sorry if this is drift but the OP may be in the same situation ref the boom.

 

[penfold]

You can't tension your clew? That seems quite fundamental.

 

[alahol2]

You can't tension your clew? That seems quite fundamental.

It's tensioned at the start of the season, but the tension can't be adjusted whilst sailing.
That's how it used to be in the 70's/80's.

 

[westernman]

It's tensioned at the start of the season, but the tension can't be adjusted whilst sailing.
That's how it used to be in the 70's/80's.

The clew on my main can be adjusted while sailing. That is how is used to be in the 1880's and 1890's.

 

[penfold]

That's rubbish; it will make sailing much more of a chore than needed, either the setting will be wrong for light wind and floppy doldrums will be extra floppy or wrong for heavy weather and give you stinky weather helm and excess heel.

 

[JimC]

Before going for expensive batten cars consder the Tides Marine system.

 

[alahol2]

That's rubbish; it will make sailing much more of a chore than needed, either the setting will be wrong for light wind and floppy doldrums will be extra floppy or wrong for heavy weather and give you stinky weather helm and excess heel.

So you are voting for a new boom then?

 

[westernman]

That's rubbish; it will make sailing much more of a chore than needed, either the setting will be wrong for light wind and floppy doldrums will be extra floppy or wrong for heavy weather and give you stinky weather helm and excess heel.

You also want to be able to adjust the compression on the battens to increase the camber of the sail for light winds.

 

[doug748]

28 foot, masthead rig. I'm looking for a new main this winter. Very drawn to FB having had one on a 32 foot cat for many years.
But... my current boom is an old design with no adjustable clew outhaul and external slab reefing lines (Barton slab reefing kit).
Does the team think I would be better off getting a) a full batten main and retain the existing boom or b) a new boom with a 'standard' main. Not sure the purse will stretch to both.

Sorry if this is drift but the OP may be in the same situation ref the boom.

I would get the full battens and stick with the old boom or, it you race or are otherwise keen, -
- a new boom and traditional main. You could rig up an outhaul to save buying the new boom, as long as you can contrive a turning block at the end of the old one.

Full battened systems pretty much ignore all the pulling and pushing you do anyway, it's part of their charm.


.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Our boat was definitely sail area challenged. Choosing full battens allowed us to increase the mizzen area by 20% and the main by 13%. This has improved sailing performance markedly.

On sails under 400 sqft cars are not necessary. We tried to find some regardless, however none fit our tracks. It has never been a problem. As some said, keep them lubed.

I installed lazy jacks and it has taken all the faff out of dropping sail. Head into the wind, drop the sail, tie off with a single strop or not, head into port or anchor and put on the old sail cover at your leisure.

Our sails are both lose-footed and out haul is easily adjusted.

On the aside, FBs have a number of technical and performance advantages, they are pressure point stable in stronger winds, they do not flog as much, which is a consideration if the mizzen is used as a riding sail, you can increase SA, the longer chord in the top parts eases the detrimental effect of a wide mast section and for all intents and purposes they hold their shape longer.

For this they are awarded a 15% bonus in sail speed prediction programs. All in all worth their money and a cheaper and more effective performance upgrade than investing you child's college fund in a feathering prop.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

I love these threads. One minute full battens are a waste of time on a cruising boat and a bit of a faff, fishermen managed with gaff rigs, etc. and the next we're heading for a bendy carbon mast and boom with Dyneema rigging and canting keels.

I think if I was a billionaire I'd forget the Superyacht and instead commission a Westerly Centaur with a slightly tweaked (below the waterline only of course) composite hull and superstructure, a lightweight interior and petrol engine (I could just play the sound track of an old diesel over the stereo to keep things looking innocent if needed), and fit it with spent uranium keels, North 3D sails, carbon spars, continuous rod rigging, the works - maybe even hydrofoils. What fun could be had amongst the racing fleets...

 

[Laminar Flow]

I love these threads. One minute full battens are a waste of time on a cruising boat and a bit of a faff, fishermen managed with gaff rigs, etc. and the next we're heading for a bendy carbon mast and boom with Dyneema rigging and canting keels.

I think if I was a billionaire I'd forget the Superyacht and instead commission a Westerly Centaur with a slightly tweaked (below the waterline only of course) composite hull and superstructure, a lightweight interior and petrol engine (I could just play the sound track of an old diesel over the stereo to keep things looking innocent if needed), and fit it with spent uranium keels, North 3D sails, carbon spars, continuous rod rigging, the works - maybe even hydrofoils. What fun could be had amongst the racing fleets...

I remember reading of a chap who had a gaffer designed with a high tec carbon rig and a modern underwater body with high aspect fins. Apparently he raced it against more modern designs.

Never the less, I find it interesting that "modern" designs are allowed to use aux currant technology for sails and rigs, whereas older designs are supposed to make due with baggy Dacron rags and are verboten to fly spinnakers, assymmetrics and never mind code zeroes.

 

[Stemar]

Getting back on subject for a moment. I never considered a fully battened main on Jissel for budget reasons, but I did debate whether a "performance" main with bigger battens and more roach would be a good idea. Is it a waste of money on a slow boat like a Snapdragon, or does the poor thing need all the help she can get? In the end, I went for all the help she can get, and I think it was an improvement, though how much was going from Granny's knockers to a sail with a bit of shape, and how much extra the performance main gave is anybody's guess.

As for sticky sliders, a squirt of teflon spray on the sliders will make a huge difference, as will replacing any badly worn ones, but what really made the difference on Jissel was fitting a downhaul - just 3mm cord tied to the sail's headboard and fed through a couple of sliders on the way down, and lead back to the cockpit. Ease the sheet, raise the topping lift, loose the halliard and pull the downhaul tight and make off. The main's snug in the lazyjacks without leaving the cockpit.

 

[Frogmogman]

I think if I was a billionaire I'd forget the Superyacht and instead commission a Westerly Centaur with a slightly tweaked (below the waterline only of course) composite hull and superstructure, a lightweight interior and petrol engine (I could just play the sound track of an old diesel over the stereo to keep things looking innocent if needed), and fit it with spent uranium keels, North 3D sails, carbon spars, continuous rod rigging, the works - maybe even hydrofoils. What fun could be had amongst the racing fleets...

Your post makes me think of the Swan 38 Mascalzone Latino that we raced against in the 2014 Swan cup in Sardinia. Her owner, Italian ship owner Vincenzo Onorato, (who also has a Swan 65, which was also participating) was once briefly the challenger of record for the Americas cup, but withdrew for lack of funding) decided to do the ultimate optimisation job on her.

The teak decks were stripped off and faired, the interior was stripped out the skeg (cover your eyes, skeg lovers) was sawn off and a modern spade rudder fitted. The mast was replaced with a fractional carbon stick with exotic rigging and sails. All very well, but really not a Swan 38 any more, and despite her professional crew, Chris Frost whopped their arses in his trusty old Swan 36, Finola. IIRC, Mascalzone Latino finished 3rd.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

I love these threads. One minute full battens are a waste of time on a cruising boat and a bit of a faff, fishermen managed with gaff rigs, etc. and the next we're heading for a bendy carbon mast and boom with Dyneema rigging and canting keels.

I think if I was a billionaire I'd forget the Superyacht and instead commission a Westerly Centaur with a slightly tweaked (below the waterline only of course) composite hull and superstructure, a lightweight interior and petrol engine (I could just play the sound track of an old diesel over the stereo to keep things looking innocent if needed), and fit it with spent uranium keels, North 3D sails, carbon spars, continuous rod rigging, the works - maybe even hydrofoils. What fun could be had amongst the racing fleets...

Yes. These forums are a form of radicalisation and should be stopped .
There are lots of vulnerable old men with fat wallets on here that are easily led by the promise of an extra knot in boat speed , a 10 degree reduction in heeling angle or a non dragging hooped anchor.

Unfortunately, some are too far gone now and are beyond saving.

 

[jwilson]

A lot to like about fully battened mains, for cruising use sails set better for longer as the cloth ages, and they drop down into a stackpack cover more neatly. Only downsides are usually more friction when hoisting (unless expensive batten cars), and the fact that they can make heaving to more difficult, as a FB main keeps driving for longer when eased. Also occasionally in ultra-light winds the battens won't flip over to the right curve when tacking and you have to shake the boom to get them to do so.

 

[DanTribe]

Getting back on subject for a moment. I never considered a fully battened main on Jissel for budget reasons, but I did debate whether a "performance" main with bigger battens and more roach would be a good idea. Is it a waste of money on a slow boat like a Snapdragon, or does the poor thing need all the help she can get? In the end, I went for all the help she can get, and I think it was an improvement, though how much was going from Granny's knockers to a sail with a bit of shape, and how much extra the performance main gave is anybody's guess.

As for sticky sliders, a squirt of teflon spray on the sliders will make a huge difference, as will replacing any badly worn ones, but what really made the difference on Jissel was fitting a downhaul - just 3mm cord tied to the sail's headboard and fed through a couple of sliders on the way down, and lead back to the cockpit. Ease the sheet, raise the topping lift, loose the halliard and pull the downhaul tight and make off. The main's snug in the lazyjacks without leaving the cockpit.

I'm not sure if it's a typo, but "grannie's knockers" and grannies knicker's create two completely different mental images.
BTW I have just got a new fully battened mainsail. I'm glad I did, but it's not life changing event.

 

[capnsensible]

I love these threads. One minute full battens are a waste of time on a cruising boat and a bit of a faff, fishermen managed with gaff rigs, etc. and the next we're heading for a bendy carbon mast and boom with Dyneema rigging and canting keels.

I think if I was a billionaire I'd forget the Superyacht and instead commission a Westerly Centaur with a slightly tweaked (below the waterline only of course) composite hull and superstructure, a lightweight interior and petrol engine (I could just play the sound track of an old diesel over the stereo to keep things looking innocent if needed), and fit it with spent uranium keels, North 3D sails, carbon spars, continuous rod rigging, the works - maybe even hydrofoils. What fun could be had amongst the racing fleets...

You Must Have The Correct Anchor.

 

[KenF]

Just a quick note.
I never experienced a problem with bat cars (selden) but I did try a downhaul attached to the heasboard on my non-fb main but gave it up due to the vast amount of string in the cockpit when the main was down.