Fully battened mainsail

[penfold]

A lot to like about fully battened mains, for cruising use sails set better for longer as the cloth ages, and they drop down into a stackpack cover more neatly. Only downsides are usually more friction when hoisting (unless expensive batten cars), and the fact that they can make heaving to more difficult, as a FB main keeps driving for longer when eased. Also occasionally in ultra-light winds the battens won't flip over to the right curve when tacking and you have to shake the boom to get them to do so.

That's a good point but only really relevant if going long distance/offshore when carrying a trysail(and a means of rigging it) would become prudent.

 

[Stemar]

I'm not sure if it's a typo, but "grannie's knockers" and grannies knicker's create two completely different mental images.

Oops! Let's go with knickers, before I get myself into trouble

 

[Daydream believer]

It's tensioned at the start of the season, but the tension can't be adjusted whilst sailing.
That's how it used to be in the 70's/80's.

Not on my boat it was not

 

[Daydream believer]

So you are voting for a new boom then?

Surely you can adapt an existing boom with a couple of blocks & a few pop rivets- screws if it is wooden

 

[Daydream believer]

You also want to be able to adjust the compression on the battens to increase the camber of the sail for light winds.

The battens are not necessarily there to change the camber

 

[zoidberg]

28 foot, masthead rig. I'm looking for a new main this winter. Very drawn to FB having had one on a 32 foot cat for many years.
But... my current boom is an old design with no adjustable clew outhaul and external slab reefing lines (Barton slab reefing kit).
Does the team think I would be better off getting a) a full batten main and retain the existing boom or b) a new boom with a 'standard' main. Not sure the purse will stretch to both.

Sorry if this is drift but the OP may be in the same situation ref the boom.

Well, yes, I am very much in the same boat ( to coin a phrase )

I don't anticipate much of a problem in fitting an adjustable clew outhaul - see the ClamCleat online catalogue for ideas, or ask AllSpars' keen boffins.
My old mainsail's foot fitted into the boom. The new one won't, for better sail shape. I'll keep the old boom until it fails, or I do. There are plenty going spare at Boat Scrapyard. Then there's this mega-Forum's 'wanted' section.

I asked the guru Chris Jeckells about the TidesMarine product, for I was interested. I even acquired the plastic profiles. His opinion pointed me towards the Selden Battcars.
He also offered me a most attractive 'Boat Show' price...!!! Tell him I sent you....

 

[zoidberg]

A lot to like about fully battened mains, for cruising use sails set better for longer as the cloth ages, and they drop down into a stackpack cover more neatly. Only downsides are usually more friction when hoisting (unless expensive batten cars), and the fact that they can make heaving to more difficult.

I agree 'heaving-to' is a valuable capability. However, should the need arise, I expect I'll be down to my Third Reef at that point. I don't expect there will be many sections of batten + car left above, by then.

My 'Fourth Reef' is a Jordan Series Drogue. Beyond that, I'll carry a prayer mat.

 

[Daydream believer]

I agree 'heaving-to' is a valuable capability. However, should the need arise, I expect I'll be down to my Third Reef at that point. I don't expect there will be many sections of batten + car left above, by then.

My current boat will not heave too. However my last 2 boats did so beautifully & i did do so for 4.5 hours in F9 once quite comfortably whilst I went to sleep due to exhaustion.
However, as a single handed salor I regularly would get into a pickle & the ability to just spin the boat round & heave too was such an advantage in ANY wind was something I really miss. It might be a visit to the heads. take a breather, have a re think on strategy, sort a problem. Anything.I did not have to wait for heavy weather.
I really miss not being able to do this in my current yacht.

 

[zoidberg]

I love these threads. One minute full battens are a waste of time on a cruising boat and a bit of a faff, fishermen managed with gaff rigs, etc. and the next we're heading for a bendy carbon mast and boom with Dyneema rigging and canting keels.

I think if I was a billionaire I'd forget the Superyacht and instead commission a Westerly Centaur with a slightly tweaked (below the waterline only of course) composite hull and superstructure, a lightweight interior and petrol engine (I could just play the sound track of an old diesel over the stereo to keep things looking innocent if needed), and fit it with spent uranium keels, North 3D sails, carbon spars, continuous rod rigging, the works - maybe even hydrofoils. What fun could be had amongst the racing fleets...

Mine is not a Centaur, but only one keel..... and similar vintage. She's having something of a 'refurb'....
Among the 'go faster gear' and 'yot bling' I'm fitting as part of 'the last guttering of the candle' are these little bad boys.

I asked the Harken guys at SIBS for a guess at their new cost today, which comfortably exceeded what I paid for the whole boat.

'There's no known cure for that disease!'

 

[jwilson]

Heaving to is much more useful when shorthanded for quick trips to the chart table or heads, or to sort something out for a few minutes. Unless you are sailing a 1900 pilot cutter or Colin Archer heaving to is not much use in heavy weather in most boats, and totally useless in modern deep fin keelers that frequently just won't heave to reliably. You can usually just about make them heave to by lots of tweaking main/headsail balance, but any change in wind upsets it. Not like most older boats where you just tack without letting go of the headsail, let out the main a bit, and you are virtually stopped with the benefit of wind in the sails to steady the motion.

 

[Daydream believer]

Heaving to is much more useful when shorthanded for quick trips to the chart table or heads, or to sort something out for a few minutes. Unless you are sailing a 1900 pilot cutter or Colin Archer heaving to is not much use in heavy weather in most boats, and totally useless in modern deep fin keelers that frequently just won't heave to reliably. You can usually just about make them heave to by lots of tweaking main/headsail balance, but any change in wind upsets it. Not like most older boats where you just tack without letting go of the headsail, let out the main a bit, and you are virtually stopped with the benefit of wind in the sails to steady the motion.

Bit over the top with that comment.
I may well concur about deep fin keel yachts not heaving too in heavy weather- I know many say they do, but proper heaving too is going below & leaving the helm for hours on end. Not tweaking it every couple of minutes. Perhaps a couple do but I would need some experiences described first. I suspect thata hull with shallow draft & a narrow deep fin to act as a pivot, is not conducive to heaving too.
I am sure that all the owners of Rustlers, Bowmans etc would be quite capable. Even the likes of Sadler 32/34s & similar with their fin & skegs may well have managed it OK . Perhaps owners of them would like to comment
Decent design is not the province of Colin Archer, if indeed it ever was.

 

[DJE]

Our bilge keel Sadler 29 hove too quite happily with the No.3 genoa or a similarly reefed roller genoa. You could tie the tiller down to leeward and leave her alone. Not so good with a big overlapping headsail though.

 

[dunedin]

Heaving to is much more useful when shorthanded for quick trips to the chart table or heads, or to sort something out for a few minutes.

We do occasionally heave to on rare occasions - eg to adjust the jib leech line tension - but for the sorts of things listed above heaving to is generally unnecessary on a modern boat.
Press one button to engage autopilot, and if necessary dump mainsheet to get more level (where fully battened main helps a lot, as simply feathers gently without flogging). When ready sheet back in.

 

[thinwater]

We do occasionally heave to on rare occasions - eg to adjust the jib leech line tension - but for the sorts of things listed above heaving to is generally unnecessary on a modern boat....

Maybe he meant multihull. I just walk over and adjust it. Even with a reacher, it is over the deck.

---

As for full vs. part, I've had both. For a cruiser, the biggest disadvantage is back stay hangups, and the biggest advantage is ease of reefing and furling (it just sits on the boom with lazy jacks, with hardly the need to tie it in place). As for hoisting, I've always hoisted about the same as other boats, so that is just sail-specific problems.

 

[Daydream believer]

We do occasionally heave to on rare occasions - eg to adjust the jib leech line tension - but for the sorts of things listed above heaving to is generally unnecessary on a modern boat.
Press one button to engage autopilot, and if necessary dump mainsheet to get more level (where fully battened main helps a lot, as simply feathers gently without flogging). When ready sheet back in.

I have a Raymarine av100 autopilot to a tiller, so cannot heave to with that, as it just cuts out if the boat is not moving forward.

 

[thinwater]

I have a Raymarine av100 autopilot to a tiller, so cannot heave to with that, as it just cuts out if the boat is not moving forward.

Yes you can. After the boat tacks and slows and stops, manually drop the tiller to leward using the TP controls, and then put the TP on "standby," which will lock the tiller in place. You do not steer while heaved to.

 

[Daydream believer]

Yes you can. After the boat tacks and slows and stops, manually drop the tiller to leward using the TP controls, and then put the TP on "standby," which will lock the tiller in place. You do not steer while heaved to.

Correct on my last 2 boats, but not on my current one it is not -- unfortunately.

 

[thinwater]

Correct on my last 2 boats, but not on my current one it is not -- unfortunately.

Well, that's just not helpful! (Talking about the design, not you .) Sounds like you need some manner of tiller or wheel lock. There is no manual mode?

 

[Daydream believer]

Well, that's just not helpful! (Talking about the design, not you .) Sounds like you need some manner of tiller or wheel lock. There is no manual mode?

Threads evolve. That is one of the great consequences of good social interaction. However, as this thread is about fully battened mainsails, & you would never understand the many different ways I have tried at heaving too I will not rise to the bait.

 

[KenF]

Another disadvantage of a FB main is that usually you need a 'backstay flicker' to ensure the backstay clears the extended roach on an FB main - which I'd have thought means you can't tune the mast using the backstay. Conversely you get more roach with an FB.

- just thought I'd mention it.