Freezer lid- potentially daft idea

[Sea Change]

In the quest for a really well sealed freezer lid, it crossed my mind that a small uPVC window frame might do the job. I would replace the glazed unit with closed cell insulation and fibreglass. The usually hollow frame could be carefully filled with foam.
One major modification would be to the handle- I'd have to mount that on the outside, obviously.
I've not heard of anybody doing this before so maybe there's an obvious reason why it's not a good idea?

 

[geem]

In the quest for a really well sealed freezer lid, it crossed my mind that a small uPVC window frame might do the job. I would replace the glazed unit with closed cell insulation and fibreglass. The usually hollow frame could be carefully filled with foam.
One major modification would be to the handle- I'd have to mount that on the outside, obviously.
I've not heard of anybody doing this before so maybe there's an obvious reason why it's not a good idea?

Is this for a front opening door or top loader? We don't need a tight fitting seal on our top loader.

 

[Sea Change]

Is this for a front opening door or top loader? We don't need a tight fitting seal on our top loader.

Top loader. The current arrangement is pretty poor, just a big block of foam. My original design reused the plywood locker lid and had a seal, but the plywood very quickly warped and there was no effective seal. We get a lot of ice build up and I'm hoping that a better seal would prevent this.

I've added a second layer of foam sheet over the top which helps a bit, but it makes getting on and out of the freezer a bit more annoying.

I know it's possible to build a lid using glass and foam bit it's going to be a lot of work, compared to modifying a cheap window frame. And a proper hinged lid that you can open with one hand, and don't need to put down somewhere, would be a major improvement.

 

[geem]

Top loader. The current arrangement is pretty poor, just a big block of foam. My original design reused the plywood locker lid and had a seal, but the plywood very quickly warped and there was no effective seal. We get a lot of ice build up and I'm hoping that a better seal would prevent this.

I've added a second layer of foam sheet over the top which helps a bit, but it makes getting on and out of the freezer a bit more annoying.

I know it's possible to build a lid using glass and foam bit it's going to be a lot of work, compared to modifying a cheap window frame. And a proper hinged lid that you can open with one hand, and don't need to put down somewhere, would be a major improvement.

I built our fridge/freezer from scratch. The lid is 4" thick plus the 1/2" of counter top. It was easy to build the lid out of epoxy and glass. I made a female mould from 6mm ply that I faced with off cuts of fomica. Very easy and effective. We don't have a seal as such but the lid is close fitting. We get no ice build up. The lid is hinged and I fitted a spring that holds the lid up so you can get stuff out whilst sailing without fear of trapped fingers.

 

[B27]

If the lid is really well sealed, you won't be able to open it when the air inside cools and lowers the pressure....

 

[GHA]

I tried a day with the fridge graphing the 2 hour duty cycle & leaving the top lid on for an hour, take it off for an hour, on for an hour...
From the graph couldn't really tell when the lid was on or off.. might be less important than you think.

 

[lustyd]

I accidentally left our fridge on with the lid open for a week recently. Not as inefficient as you'd think, the 300Ah battery was still at 60% when I returned

 

[Sea Change]

I built our fridge/freezer from scratch. The lid is 4" thick plus the 1/2" of counter top. It was easy to build the lid out of epoxy and glass. I made a female mould from 6mm ply that I faced with off cuts of fomica. Very easy and effective. We don't have a seal as such but the lid is close fitting. We get no ice build up. The lid is hinged and I fitted a spring that holds the lid up so you can get stuff out whilst sailing without fear of trapped fingers.

I'm sure that with time and the right materials and work space, I could do similar. But you'll know what it's like trying to get hold of building materials in the Caribbean. Not impossible, but far from easy.
I was trying to find a source for PIR insulation sheets, no luck, but came across some on a beach in Antigua .
Just setting up a decent work bench with access to power isn't going to be easy. Unless we make this a boatyard job, but we will want to get launched as soon as possible so anything that can be left until we are afloat will not be high enough priority.

The appeal of the window idea is that it's an off the shelf solution. A brand new opening window frame is only about £100 at this kind of size.

 

[Sea Change]

If the lid is really well sealed, you won't be able to open it when the air inside cools and lowers the pressure....

That's an interesting point!

 

[Sea Change]

I tried a day with the fridge graphing the 2 hour duty cycle & leaving the top lid on for an hour, take it off for an hour, on for an hour...
From the graph couldn't really tell when the lid was on or off.. might be less important than you think.

It's not primarily about power consumption (we have 1200w of solar and the freezer usage is barely noticeable), but about preventing frosting, and making the freezer easier to use. At the moment getting in to it requires you to lift off a cushion, then a sheet of foam, then wriggle the block of foam out of the top of the freezer. Find somewhere to stick these three things down (not necessarily easy when you've just arrived back with bags of shopping lying everywhere). Load up freezer, put the three lids back. It's a total pain and very much on SWMBO's list of things that are worse about boat life than house life.

 

[Sea Change]

If the lid is really well sealed, you won't be able to open it when the air inside cools and lowers the pressure....

Actually, thinking about this a bit more, domestic fridges and freezers have airtight seals on them too. The only time I've ever struggled to open one was a huge commercial chest freezer. I don't think my 40l boat freezer is going to be too much of a problem, especially as it rarely has any air space in it anyway!

 

[PaulRainbow]

If the lid is really well sealed, you won't be able to open it when the air inside cools and lowers the pressure....

Of course he will. How do you think people open domestic freezers ?

 

[Sea Change]

Thinking about this some more, is the hinge and lock mechanism going to stand up to the humidity? I've got a feeling these things are usually just plated steel. And in a horizontal position I might find water wants to pool in unusual places.

 

[MontyMariner]

If the lid is really well sealed, you won't be able to open it when the air inside cools and lowers the pressure....

This has not been my experience, I made my lid from stackable storage / sandwich boxes.

 

[Neeves]

Thinking about this some more, is the hinge and lock mechanism going to stand up to the humidity? I've got a feeling these things are usually just plated steel. And in a horizontal position I might find water wants to pool in unusual places.

Domestic window frames historically were made from wood, then made from steel, more recently from aluminium (powder coated) and now plastic. If you were buying frames made for property near the sea I'd expect them to be made from something corrosion resistant - but my expectations might be a bit too high.

Plastic window frames, in the UK, are well engineered (or the ones I know of are well engineered) and have been available for at least 40 years.

From a random search with Google:

UPVC Windows, Supply Only DIY UPVC Windows

Jonathan

 

[arcot]

It's not primarily about power consumption (we have 1200w of solar and the freezer usage is barely noticeable), but about preventing frosting, and making the freezer easier to use. At the moment getting in to it requires you to lift off a cushion, then a sheet of foam, then wriggle the block of foam out of the top of the freezer. Find somewhere to stick these three things down (not necessarily easy when you've just arrived back with bags of shopping lying everywhere). Load up freezer, put the three lids back. It's a total pain and very much on SWMBO's list of things that are worse about boat life than house life.

Condensation increases inside fridge with air leaks.

 

[ChromeDome]

Could you take inspiration from portable or chest freezers?

Or airtight food storage containers like this from OXO (expands the seal when button is pressed)

 

[Sea Change]

Condensation increases inside fridge with air leaks.

That's my understanding too. A uPVC window frame should be pretty much air tight.
My main concerns are
a) moving the handle to the outside
b) the hinges and other hardware being on the 'wet' side and therefore liable to corrosion.

 

[Rappey]

For your pvc window lid you can use butt hinges so they are completely external. The body is aluminium and the the hinge pin is stainless. They are adjustable to alter how tight the sash pulls onto the frame. Pic below.. Standard friction stays would rust out and would limit the sash opening.
Dont fit any upvc window sash hardware as most is steel . For the handle how about a push button cabinet latch like most boats seem to have nowadays or any type of locker latch that seems suitable.
You can get beading thats much smaller than standard which allows a 50mm polyurethene/foam insert panel with pvc coating both sides. These are usually fitted in doors.
I built my lid from 50mm polyurethene foam then cladded it in 3mm white plastic pvc sheet and and wooden top. You can "weld" all the joints with stelmax, a glue designed to melt/bond pvc together.
My whole fridge is lined with pvc sheet.

 

[Sea Change]

For your pvc window lid you can use butt hinges so they are completely external. The body is aluminium and the the hinge pin is stainless. They are adjustable to alter how tight the sash pulls onto the frame. Pic below.. Standard friction stays would rust out and would limit the sash opening.
Dont fit any upvc window sash hardware as most is steel . For the handle how about a push button cabinet latch like most boats seem to have nowadays or any type of locker latch that seems suitable.
You can get beading thats much smaller than standard which allows a 50mm polyurethene/foam insert panel with pvc coating both sides. These are usually fitted in doors.
I built my lid from 50mm polyurethene foam then cladded it in 3mm white plastic pvc sheet and and wooden top. You can "weld" all the joints with stelmax, a glue designed to melt/bond pvc together.
My whole fridge is lined with pvc sheet.

Useful, thanks. I hadn't really thought about the limited opening on a standard window, but of course you're right.
It would be a shame to have the hinges sticking up from the worktop but a small price to pay for a hinged lid that actually seals.