Flare Replacement.

[Bobc]

I don't like having explosives on a boat.

With all the electronic devices we now have, I think flares are really a last resort.

If you need to call for help, you have a VHF, and mobile phone, an EPIRB/PLB, AIS alert, etc. If you need to alert another boat/ship of your location, you have VHF, powerful torch. So mostly, I think flares are of most use in location assist for SAR services, and orange smoke is best for that.

I have an LED flare, but also keep 2 x red paras, and 2 x floating smokes, just in case the fit hits the shan.

 

[Deleted member 478]

....just in case the fit hits the shan.

I wonder if Mr @shan ever sees things this way around?

 

[lustyd]

I don't like having explosives on a boat.

With all the electronic devices we now have, I think flares are really a last resort.

Playing devil's advocate here, but there have been significantly more instances of mobile phones exploding or catching fire than flares, even within the limitations of "on a boat". Flares are incredibly stable explosives.

 

[Adios]

Playing devil's advocate here, but there have been significantly more instances of mobile phones exploding or catching fire than flares, even within the limitations of "on a boat". Flares are incredibly stable explosives.

Good point. Lithium batteries are explosives in a watery environment. Flooded Tesla EVs From Hurricane Ian Exploding All Over Florida

 

[Stemar]

Like so many things, there are entrenched opinions on flares. My risk assessment for the sailing I do is that an LED flare is more suitable than pyrotechnics, If you think differently, that's fine with me. You're unlikely to change my mind, and I'm unlikely to change yours. Good luck to you and I hope that your flares are as big a waste of money as I hope mine are.

Not like buying the wrong anchor, when you'll definitely die...

 

[boomerangben]

So an LED flare that can run for hours and be seen for miles is a good follow on from the PLB no?

If you’ve got a PLB, you only need a flare once you can see the helicopter/lifeboat so don’t need it to run for hours or perhaps even minutes. I have not seen an LED flare used in anger but if I had one, I would be interested to see how visible it was on a bright sunny day, the days we like to go sailing. Is it better than smoke?

 

[shan]

I wonder if Mr @shan ever sees things this way around?

Hmmmmm.... he knows the 'fire has hit the Shan' when he is evicted from the bedroom..

 

[Adios]

If you’ve got a PLB, you only need a flare once you can see the helicopter/lifeboat so don’t need it to run for hours or perhaps even minutes. I have not seen an LED flare used in anger but if I had one, I would be interested to see how visible it was on a bright sunny day, the days we like to go sailing. Is it better than smoke?

I'm thinking this for me over board in the water up to my neck. The last solo night passage I had a handheld VHF and my Odeo MK3 LED Distress Flare on me at all times. Now updated with a PLB as well. For the same size I could have carried one parachute flare which once I've fired it, it has left my location and shot off far from me. I can't use it as soon as I go in because I have to save it for the hoped for rescue services to arrive. Or one decent sized hand held with a minute run time, again having to reserve it until I am sure rescue is less than the burn time away.

Whereas I send out the alert and can leave the LED running the whole time giving chance someone else on the water might spot it and get me out sooner, it stays with me so is good for pinpointing, has no risk of harming me or my precious but fragile life jacket.

I could of course strap more explosives to me with some sort of home made holster vest. Not sure what the French customs will say though.

In the daytime the bright yellow spray hood should making finding me relatively easy though if a suitably small smoke device exists I'd be happy to carry one

 

[Sandy]

In the daytime the bright yellow spray hood should making finding me relatively easy

You may want to test that out.

On a training exercise we had a SAR helicopter fly over a 'casualty' sat on an orange 3m*3m bivi bag SIX times.

 

[Roberto]

if a suitably small smoke device exists I'd be happy to carry one

I attended a sort of seminar by the French SAR air patrol and they were advising a "day and night" device: it's a sort of stick with a smoke signal on one side and a fire on the other, of course they have a shorter duration than conventional signals but they are small enough to be carried on one's person.
I use this pouch to keep the material on me all the time (while singlehanding), the portable vhf is clipped on while coastal.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

... in the water up to my neck. The last solo night passage I had a handheld VHF and my Odeo MK3 LED Distress Flare on me at all times. Now updated with a PLB as well. ...

Only up to your neck, I would have expected you to sink like a stone carrying that lot on your person? A pointless, practise in my opinion.

 

[Adios]

Only up to your neck, I would have expected you to sink like a stone carrying that lot on your person? A pointless, practise in my opinion.

All 3 things are buoyant so would help me stay afloat, a bit. Flares aren't buoyant though

 

[RunAgroundHard]

All 3 things are buoyant so would help me stay afloat, a bit. Flares aren't buoyant though

What about the pointlessness of carrying them?

 

[Adios]

What about the pointlessness of carrying them?

That will depend on how well I'm dressed for the occasion

 

[Adios]

I attended a sort of seminar by the French SAR air patrol and they were advising a "day and night" device: it's a sort of stick with a smoke signal on one side and a fire on the other, of course they have a shorter duration than conventional signals but they are small enough to be carried on one's person.
I use this pouch to keep the material on me all the time (while singlehanding), the portable vhf is clipped on while coastal.

Any idea where they are sold?

 

[Daydream believer]

I'm thinking this for me over board in the water up to my neck. The last solo night passage I had a handheld VHF and my Odeo MK3 LED Distress Flare on me at all times. Now updated with a PLB as well. For the same size I could have carried one parachute flare which once I've fired it, it has left my location and shot off far from me. I can't use it as soon as I go in because I have to save it for the hoped for rescue services to arrive. Or one decent sized hand held with a minute run time, again having to reserve it until I am sure rescue is less than the burn time away.

Whereas I send out the alert and can leave the LED running the whole time giving chance someone else on the water might spot it and get me out sooner, it stays with me so is good for pinpointing, has no risk of harming me or my precious but fragile life jacket.

I could of course strap more explosives to me with some sort of home made holster vest. Not sure what the French customs will say though.

In the daytime the bright yellow spray hood should making finding me relatively easy though if a suitably small smoke device exists I'd be happy to carry one

I carry a plastic holder with 10 mini flares all in the pouch with my PLB attached to my LJ. I am not sure how long I could hold an electric flare above my head for in a position that it could be seen. What range could one expect to see a man holding one in a 1 metre swell? Not far I would surmise.

My feeling is that if 8 miles offshore a phone is useless. ( It is even in my own home) . I doubt that people on land would recognise a flashing red light & be aware that it was not a navigation mark. If the public were made aware of it then the rescue services would be inundated with false calls about navigation lights on red buoys. Or the bow light of a small boat in a heavy sea. When Foulness have pyrotechnic testing they advertise the fact quite widely. But people still report from south side of the Thames and report seeing distress flares. I tend to think that is a good thing. It shows people are watching & care (rather than awkward types just using it as a means of complaining about the booming noises)

The important thing is that the public recognise them as such. They do not recognise red lights that may be used in many situations other than rescue.
Electronic flares are brilliant in land but do not have the same place at sea. For an RNLI boat looking for someone in the water, a small pyrotechnic flare will do the job. Hence, my mini flares. Shipping offshore will see a parachute flare quite easily. Obviously it depends on the lookout. But in the areas where most of us sail a flare would do the trick very well. In the grand scheme of thing £200 every 4 years ( Mine have a 4 year cycle) is not that expensive. The film industry does take them for their film pyrotechniques.

 

[boomerangben]

Any idea where they are sold?

Day and Night Mk8 - Pains Wessex - Marine Signal & Rescue Products

This is what I have under my armpit at work.

 

[boomerangben]

Only up to your neck, I would have expected you to sink like a stone carrying that lot on your person? A pointless, practise in my opinion.

I’d like to think this whole thread is pointless and with any luck it will be for all of us

 

[Boathook]

I carry a plastic holder with 10 mini flares all in the pouch with my PLB attached to my LJ. I am not sure how long I could hold an electric flare above my head for in a position that it could be seen. What range could one expect to see a man holding one in a 1 metre swell? Not far I would surmise.

My feeling is that if 8 miles offshore a phone is useless. ( It is even in my own home) . I doubt that people on land would recognise a flashing red light & be aware that it was not a navigation mark. If the public were made aware of it then the rescue services would be inundated with false calls about navigation lights on red buoys. Or the bow light of a small boat in a heavy sea. When Foulness have pyrotechnic testing they advertise the fact quite widely. But people still report from south side of the Thames and report seeing distress flares. I tend to think that is a good thing. It shows people are watching & care (rather than awkward types just using it as a means of complaining about the booming noises)

The important thing is that the public recognise them as such. They do not recognise red lights that may be used in many situations other than rescue.
Electronic flares are brilliant in land but do not have the same place at sea. For an RNLI boat looking for someone in the water, a small pyrotechnic flare will do the job. Hence, my mini flares. Shipping offshore will see a parachute flare quite easily. Obviously it depends on the lookout. But in the areas where most of us sail a flare would do the trick very well. In the grand scheme of thing £200 every 4 years ( Mine have a 4 year cycle) is not that expensive. The film industry does take them for their film pyrotechniques.

I seem to remember that those mini flares don't have a long burn time.
Years ago I rescued a family who were setting the mini flares off. I never saw them but the 10 year old on the helm did. The helm did comment that they didn't last long.

 

[rotrax]

I carry a plastic holder with 10 mini flares all in the pouch with my PLB attached to my LJ. I am not sure how long I could hold an electric flare above my head for in a position that it could be seen. What range could one expect to see a man holding one in a 1 metre swell? Not far I would surmise.

My feeling is that if 8 miles offshore a phone is useless. ( It is even in my own home) . I doubt that people on land would recognise a flashing red light & be aware that it was not a navigation mark. If the public were made aware of it then the rescue services would be inundated with false calls about navigation lights on red buoys. Or the bow light of a small boat in a heavy sea. When Foulness have pyrotechnic testing they advertise the fact quite widely. But people still report from south side of the Thames and report seeing distress flares. I tend to think that is a good thing. It shows people are watching & care (rather than awkward types just using it as a means of complaining about the booming noises)

The important thing is that the public recognise them as such. They do not recognise red lights that may be used in many situations other than rescue.
Electronic flares are brilliant in land but do not have the same place at sea. For an RNLI boat looking for someone in the water, a small pyrotechnic flare will do the job. Hence, my mini flares. Shipping offshore will see a parachute flare quite easily. Obviously it depends on the lookout. But in the areas where most of us sail a flare would do the trick very well. In the grand scheme of thing £200 every 4 years ( Mine have a 4 year cycle) is not that expensive. The film industry does take them for their film pyrotechniques.

Why would you be holding an electronic emergency signal above your head?

Like an epirb they float and are waterproof.

3 mile range in sunlight, 10 mile range at night.

The vertical beam goes a long way up.

Sirius have a video on their website.

If it is, in reallity, half as good as it looks, it will do for me!