Fisher 25 or LM 27.

[Jcorstorphine]

I am still looking for a new (to me) boat and have decided (reluctantly) that at the age of 72, to go for a yacht such as a Westerly 31 ft such as a Renown or a Pentland would not be that wise.
So after much soul searching, I feel a motor sailer would be more suitable and have narrowed it down to either a Fisher 25 or an LM27 and plan to look at both of these next week.
Problem is, I like both boats for different reasons.
The Fisher is attractive from its feeling of safety on the side decks, its chuncky little wheelhouse and the fact that the Mizzen can be set as a steadying sail.
The LM has the attraction of being more of a true 50/50 as my understanding is that they sail quite well so that tends to keep my wish to keep sailing but have the comfort of the wheelhouse which can be fully enclosed by two doors.

So, my question is, LM 27 or Fisher 25. Both are the same price near enough but the LM is 9 years younger that the Fisher

Just to complicate things, there is one other factor and that is the Fisher has a Volvo 2003T which gives me the "willies" OK it is 40 hp but can it be used, some of the older Fishers were a bit low on power with some built with 18 hp Yanmars.

Other question about the Fisher is who built her as I have heard that the ones built by Pennington Marine for Fairways were no as good as ones built by Northshore.

Can anyone help me with any experience of these two yachts

Thanks

 

[Colvic Watson]

The Fisher is a great sailing motorsailer, very impressed when I've sailed against them also the mizzen on the F25 is a decent ratio of sail area to displacement unlike some other ketch motorsailers. The LM27 has a larger cockpit but in my utterly biased opinion a wheelhouse is incomparable. I know I'm at the other range of the age spectrum with my little one being only five years old but I'm completely sold on wheelhouse sailing and the lifestyle, the LM is an outstanding yacht but it doesn't have a wheelhouse.

There are plenty of other marques though and don't discount the CW which has some passionate owners and advocates. I'm a bit more open minded and can see flaws in the different marques, including my own but you won't regret changing. Apart from anything else the British weather took a significant turn for the better just after we bought a wheelhouse yacht, funnily enough

 

[johnalison]

I'm puzzled that a 31' boat should be thought too big at 72, unless it is the maintenance involved. It used to be said that you should have a foot for each year of age, which would put me close to Abramovitch's class of yacht.

 

[E39mad]

Some Fisher 25's were also built in Sri Lanka and imported to the UK for sale through Fairway. iirc they have more internal mouldings and is particularly noticeable in the wheelhouse.

Northshore built ones from the late 80's onwards had a Yanmar 3 cylinder 3GM30 27hp as std which was about enough - one boat had a 35hp installed which raised the sole height of the wheelhouse. I would avoid anything below 24hp.

The Fishers do sail better than people give them credit for, not close winded but a long waterline length helps and it does have a little ship feel about it. I really want a late sloop rigged one and am not 50 yet!!

 

[Wansworth]

In many ways although a wheelhouse is more sheltered it does hinder close quarters operations especially if incident deafness is a problem and n and out of the cabin

 

[LadyInBed]

I'm puzzled that a 31' boat should be thought too big at 72, unless it is the maintenance involved. It used to be said that you should have a foot for each year of age, which would put me close to Abramovitch's class of yacht.

I hope to keep my pilot house Countess 33 till I'm well into my 80's.

 

[pvb]

I'd go for the Fisher 25, simply because it's such a pretty boat. But it does have a tiny cockpit, and a cramped wheelhouse. Heart overrules head.

 

[LittleSister]

the LM is an outstanding yacht but it doesn't have a wheelhouse.

What do you call that tall bit with all the windows and seat and wheel inside, then?

 

[Mandarin331]

I'm puzzled that a 31' boat should be thought too big at 72, unless it is the maintenance involved. It used to be said that you should have a foot for each year of age, which would put me close to Abramovitch's class of yacht.

We bought our current 34'er from someone 82 years old who only hung up the lifejacket because of family reasons. But not all are so lucky. I would add that she was yard maintained. I suspect we will be looking at a 50/50 by 70.

There's another thread about ln27s elsewhere which gave me the feeling they were more weekenders than a serious cruiser, and most seem to have the galley in the open backed wheelhouse, which I don't like. Some have a fully enclosed wheelhouse which would be my preference. It all depends on the sailing you want to do.

I can't help feeling 40hp is a bit much, loads of weight and space with not much benefit. Years ago we looked at a Sabre27 with a 35 HP engine and walked away, later we learned other buyers had no end of problens with it and she now has a more reasonable 18 HP at great expense.

In the end you it depends which compromises you decide to accept and reject.

 

[dylanwinter]

Fishers look better and the LMs

 

[pvb]

I can't help feeling 40hp is a bit much, loads of weight and space with not much benefit.

The 2003T engine is more or less the same size as the 28hp 2003, and is only 15kg heavier.

 

[BrianH]

I'm puzzled that a 31' boat should be thought too big at 72, unless it is the maintenance involved. It used to be said that you should have a foot for each year of age, which would put me close to Abramovitch's class of yacht.

That bit puzzled me too. I bought my 31' HR94 motor sailor at age 70 and 12 years later have had enough experience to know what a good choice it was and how comfortable I feel single-handing her. I look forward to many more years sailing and wonder why it took me so long to recognise what best suits my style of cruising.

 

[LadyInBed]

I bought my 31' HR94 motor sailor at age 70 and 12 years later have had enough experience to know what a good choice it was and how comfortable I feel single-handing her. I look forward to many more years sailing and wonder why it took me so long to recognise what best suits my style of cruising.

:encouragement:

 

[Caer Urfa]

Who ever said 71 was to old for sailing I am 72 next year and sail single handed all year round in the Costa North Sea.

I am biased anyhow but very surprised you have not been aboard a Colvic Watson 25'-6" which has much more room than a fisher 25 and most are also ketch rigged.

'IF' you do look at a CW don't buy the aft cabin version as I find without doubt and personal experience for single handed sailing the aft open cockpit version is much better (but most also have
aft folding doors to the wheelhouse.

I have two good friend both with Fishers 25 which a very nice (which I have sailed single handed) and BOTH say my CW 23'-6" is bigger inside than the Fisher 25

Most Fisher 25 have 30 hp engines and the 40 hp engine you mentioned on the Fisher 25 is fine and many times in poor weather you will be glad of the extra power

If I can help drop a PM

Mike

 

[E39mad]

I wouldn't say the cockpit of the F25 is small. For it's size and being the only square transomed Fisher it has a good size imho. Plenty of room for three to sit or four at a squeeze

 

[gavin400]

I have a F25 and find the cockpit pretty roomy - although I would like fore/aft seating like a conventional yacht
Been on a F30 with the round transom and the cockpit was pretty unusable

 

[Jcorstorphine]

Thanks to all for your advice and comments. One point raised in a couple of your replies regarding me no longer looking at a 32 ft plus boat has got me thinking again but as much as I would like to go for a larger yacht such as the Mariner 9.5 Finish ketch I was looking at, my sailing is limited to day and weekend pottering with Wife and the larger boat is not really justified. We sometimes take our Son and his family out for the day and that is one of the attractions of the LM with its large cockpit.

Although my Lady loves being out in the water, she has never taken any interest in actual sailing so I am single handed and I have noticed a significant drop in upper body strength of late so hoisting larger mainsail could be a challenge. The other factor is that we are marina based and going from a 25 ft to a 32 ft is an extra £1000 a year.

As one of you has said, my heart says Fisher, my brain say LM. I just love the "little ship" feel of the Fisher wheelhouse. Trouble is that I have just missed out on two Mid 80s Fishers with recent engines over the last month and the Fisher which is still available has the Volvo 2003T. (essent a 28HP engine boosted to 43 by means of a turbo) and that is a worry. The boat is also about 10 years older that the two I missed but is only about £2k less and with a 30 year old engine, it is overpriced as I have seen one down south which is same age and it is £4K lower than the asking price of the one I am looking at.

So I will look at both boats this week and see where I get to,

Once again sincere thanks.

PS not ruled out CW but not seen any locally and if I look down south, I am looking min of £2500 to £3000 to get the boat up here and sailing it up would not be an option.

 

[Colvic Watson]

Fisher 25's don't come up for sale often, they have exceptional customer loyalty. The CW 23 has almost identical waterline length so you can see why the CW 25 is a bigger boat all in. Even though the Fisher 25 is just a beauty to look at I'd still travel to look at a CW 25 as you may find you like it and they do come up for sale even up north!

Fisher - an amazing 25

Colvic Watson 23.6

LM27, great motorsailer but not really a wheelhouse, it has different qualities

 

[Jcorstorphine]

Fisher 25's don't come up for sale often, they have exceptional customer loyalty. The CW 23 has almost identical waterline length so you can see why the CW 25 is a bigger boat all in. Even though the Fisher 25 is just a beauty to look at I'd still travel to look at a CW 25 as you may find you like it and they do come up for sale even up north!

Fisher - an amazing 25

Colvic Watson 23.6

LM27, great motorsailer but not really a wheelhouse, it has different qualities

Thanks for pics. I am not sure I agree that the LM27 does not have a true wheelhouse. The one I am looking at has factory fitted doors wherby the wheelhouse can be closed off from the elements.
One point which does irk me is that I can buy a 28 ft CW with a newish engine for £1000 less than the Fisher.

BUT.........I still like the Fisher

 

[Colvic Watson]

The CW 19 and 23 are as cute as buttons but they can't compete with the Fisher 25, and don't really try to because the Fisher was and is way more expensive. The CW 28 is an entirely different boat, it's the best incarnation of the Colvic Watson; foot-for-foot it sails far and away the best, it has the same internal volume as a Fisher 32 and you can pick one up for sensible money. It looks as good as a Fisher and is way better value. But there's a reason the F25 is so darned expensive and hard to come by, some of it is fashion and a lot of it is looks and sailing ability but comparing it to a CW 28 is comparing a pretty pony to a Suffolk Punch and I know which I'd rather own.