First boat and confused

[David_Parsons]

I am looking to buy a small boat this winter to sail next spring. My budget is limited to a maximum of £3000.

What I want is a boat that can be launched off a trailer for a bit of day sailing both on lakes in the Midlands where I live and also on the coast. However I also want some sort of cabin for our 2 kids (6 and 3) to shelter in, I am hoping my wife will get the "bug" and do a few weekend cruises with me, so we need 2 berths, but not much else I think at this stage I would use marinas for nightime stop overs.

I guess the bigger the better, towing should not be a problem, I have a good strong car, what is the biggest that is practical to day sail?

Finally I have seen a few cat ketch rigged boats without standing rigging, this seems like a good idea as it would reduce setting up times has anyone had any experience?

Lots of questions; any advice would be most welcome.

Thanks

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[StugeronSteve]

We got into cruisers with a Swift 18 kept on Rutland. Lovely little sailing boat with cabin for weekending (cockpit tent adds loads of space). You might need to pay more in the region of £4-4.5k with engine, trailer etc., but well worth a look. See several in the Solent. PM me if you want any more info.

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[chriscallender]

Hi David

The issue isn't always whether the car is up to towing the boat but whether you are up to launching it. A 22 foot trailer sailer will be a lot heavier than an 18 footer and more work to get in and out of the water. I would say go for something small enough to manage to launch and recover on your own and if the wife and kids do get the bug they will be nagging you to get a bigger 2nd boat in a few years time when you will have more experience. On the other hand I know there is a counter argument that a small cramped boat will put them off sailing for life...

Also pay close attention to the condition of the trailer - there are plenty of corroded wrecks around - its equally important as the condition of the boat if you don't want to end up stranded at the side of the road.

Another consideration is the keel/centreboard which in many cases can be the achilles heel of a trailer sailer. Is it a lifting keel and if so, how does it work and is the mechanism worn/corroded?

You are right, rigging the boat when you arrive is quite a big job and anything you can do to speed this up will help. An unstayed mast sounds like a good idea, however you will probably not get greatest performance under sail from such a rig and its really down to your personal preferdnce as to whether you want to be out on the water quicker or whether you want yo be a bit more racey once its on the water. I don't have any direct experience of an unstayed mast but thats my guess.

For what its worth, I bought a trailer sailer (22 foot) for a similar budget to you. For the first 2 or 3 months I kept her on a trailer at the marina and launched when I went sailing but found that the launch/recovery bit was taking up a fair chunk of my valuable sailing time - so ended up moving her to a drying mud berth which worked a lot better for me in that I could be out on the water with less fuss. Then I moved to a mooring which had less tidal restrictions. So I never really made much use of the trailer apart from winter storage. Eventually I decided that I wanted something bigger and more comforable so sold her and gave up on the trailer sailer idea. With hindsight I could have done plenty to make life easier for myself in getting on and off the trailer (modifications to the trailer, etc). But to me it would always be a bit of a chore. Of course the benefit is that you can sail in a different part of the country every weekend and do some sailing in the sea as your experience levels increase.


Anyway good luck, and I hope you have more luck than me with your wife catching the "bug"!!!

Chris


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[oldharry]

As others have said launching and retrieving a 22 footer is a quite major operation when compared with say an 18 footer. Unless the trailer is exceptionally well set up which means basically that it has a built in launching trolley, it is extremely difficult to position a larger boat accurately enough to tow safely - particularly if the slip is at all steep, there is any strength of wind or crosstide, and specially if the water is not flat smooth. All a recipe for disaster in terms of damaged boat and trailer, and damged you (strained back etc).

The mast of a 22 footer is quite a heavy assembly if is set up for seagoing use, and without a properly arranged system of A frame and pulleys can be too hefty for one man to manage safely on his own.

And that is the key to it: if you are sure of always having manpower available (a couple of keen teenagers for example), then everything becomes much more viable. If (as usually happens) its down to you while Mum sorts and entertains the (by now bored) kids who want to get out on the beach, then you are necessarily limited to around 18 - 20 foot max with a lightweight rig.

Your ' good strong car' will have defined limits on how much it can legally tow. Look for the vehicle identification plate in the engine bay, for the vehicle weight and the 'Gross Train weight' Deduct one from the other, and that is roughly the maximum permissible weight you can legally tow. Dont forget that with Mum and the kids and all the gear, the vehicle weight may increase by 2-300kgs, and the train weight includes the weight of the trailer itself - not insignificant for a trailer to take a 22 footer!

Having said all this, a well sorted towing outfit, and a well rehearsed launch/recovery drill can open up all kinds of possibilities for you. But the bigger the boat, the longer it takes, so that 'nipping out for an afternoons sail' can turn in to a marathon of hard labour for all concerned....

Finally, setting up the masts(s). Unless the mast is hinged at deck level (i.e. has a Tabernacle), you will need a crane to remove them safely from anything over around 16 feet length - Unless you are a Highland Caber tossing champion, that is..... Just think of the reality of trying to locate say a 20 foot spar weighing perhaps 30 - 40kgs, through to the keel on a wobbling deck! Impossible and extremely dangerous!

So to sum up you will be better as a first boat to go for something a bit smaller to practice on without doing too much damage to yourself and the boat, and while you interest the wife and kids. Something like one of the old Tucker Matilda's which sell for around £2000 - £2500 with a decent trailer, will give you sitting headroom, two cabins (so that you dont have to go to bed at the same time as the kids) a decent sized cockpit, and a fair sailing performance. It also floats in a foot of water with the keel up, so that it can easily go up the beach to let the kids ashore. Rigging and launching takes around an hour in good condtions.

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[David_Parsons]

Thanks for all this.

Looks like I am looking for a boat about 18 foot long, with a good trailer. I am thinking a gaff or gunter rig would make the task of rigging easier is, as has been pointed out I may be working single handed as wife and sprogs look on......

Can you suggest any particular types etc?

Thanks again for the advice.

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[Jeremy_W]

What about a Poacher? Lifting keel 6.4M cat ketch. It's not very common but the price would probably be under £3K.

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[Adrian]

I had a 18' Sailfish for a couple of seasons we paid about £2K, a great little boat, lifting keel, 6'+ cockpit, which with 3 or 4 people you need, but as others have said, hard work to launch and recover.
Like me you say you live in the midlands, it’s a long way from any decent sailing! we trailed the sailfish to Windermere and Norfolk Broards but it was hard work with the kids (keeping them occupied for the couple of hours while setting up/down), if you cant leave until after School on Friday by the time you get any where its going to be too late to launch, and then to get the kids in to bed at a decent time Sunday night (School Monday) you end up packing up Sunday morning. Having said all that we had two seasons doing it, and really enjoyed it, it’s a great way to learn. We now leave the boat at Windermere marina and as a result have used it much more.

My advice is "just do it" if you only spend 1 or 2K it’s not the end of the world if you prang it or you decide it’s not for you.



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[oldharry]

One piece of kit I didnt mention, essential for anyone trailer sailing: a pair of chest high waders! I bought mine for £50 from a local angling shop - and never regretted it! The only snag is that by the time you are nearing the maximum depth you are nearly floating off anyway..... (pause for silly mental scenarios about lifeboats chasing you in your deep wellies as you drift down the harbour etc - Mike Peyton take note)

Seriously though, you will need to be able to get right round the outfit while its still in the water, particularly while retrieving it - and chest waders is the only way to stay dry and comfortable.

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