Faking It Better TV coverage of Sail Racing than..

[Opinionated]

Re: Tacking away

That is a better argument than the balls about covering offered elsewhere...

Yes, you may be right, but I was actually addressing the point about whether she tacked cos someone told her too (off camera) or because she did it for herself. I have just reviewed the video of the event, and she was actually not in dirty air, she was behind and slightly to windward of the dirty air, possibly starting further to the starboard end, but slightly later than the others, we don't get a clear picture of those first few vital seconds.

There MAY have been good reasons for an experienced helm to tack, we can then include local knowledge etc etc. But I was trying to cite an argument for her making her own decision, and taking a flyer IS a gut reaction of a back-marker (I remember doing it myself SO many times - learning the hard way that it seldom pays).

(I don't have to agree with YOUR opinions, but I'll defend your right to express them).

 

[tcm]

Re: seldom pays

i spose it seldom pays because of ...the reason that one was behind in the first place: the boat at the back is often slower (unless got a worse start etc)

Whether or not she took the decision.... it may be that without her as honorary skipper, the tack would not have been made: it's a gamble that the others didn't fancy, she was at the back, so either she said "we did this/that before" OR a more experienced crew was willing to suggest the gamble, and she of course could easily take it with nothing at all to lose? A rare case of a committee crew working well- when there's a fall girl (? fall-skipper?)...

 

[stan_the_man]

I thought the whole programme was a fake and that she had no realisation what was happening at any time.
There was not a mention of running back stays- bet she did not even know they were on the boat. We had glimpses of her steering occaisionally, but it looked obvious that one of the professionals was in charge of the helm( and all other decisions)
Maybe Emma Richards thought she had better uses for her time.
Nevertheless entertaining.

 

[jfm]

Rant about Challenge

I thort Lucy was excellent. I dont care that she didn't navigate/moor etc, they weren't part of the challenge. The early tack was lucky, but luck is a perfectly proper element of winning a race. Good on her.

I share the comment of others that her mentors were a let down. I thort they were low achievers with a high handed attitude. OK they can sail, and much better than me no doubt. But they are full timers. I could do that if spent 50 weeks a year at it. They, on the other hand, couldn't do a proper job and get a boat for spare time imho....

Apols for the rant, but this attitude thing is a serious complaint about the skippers CB employs in Challenge. Good friends of mine have expd this first hand. Witness for example the way they sneered and laughed when Lucy turned up with wheelie case and asked about hairdrier elec. They made her put her stuff in a plactic box that fits the racking inside the boat. What a load of cr@p. That was a 70 foot steelboat and the rule about belongings in a tiny box is sad machoism. There is loads of room, and boats smaller than that have plugs for hairdrier all over the place, dishwashers too, but its not macho to be comfortable see, so they use the plastic boxes and laugh at their customers (I dont mean just Lucy) when they ask if more space is possible. Like I say, a bunch of not particularly impressive sailors (not CB himself) with attitude, who can sail only because they have 52 weeks/year to practise. Big deal.

 

[Opinionated]

Re: We\'ve got to gind out about that tack !

JJ - I think you are right in that she had little experience etc etc, but the sails were being trimmed by experienced trimmers, grinders by experienced grinders etc etc.

So what did she have to do, as skipper, to win the race (was there anything more than one leg?)? All she had to do was to call a couple of tacks, and I will be interested as much as anyone as to whether she had help, and otherwise she could treat that 72ft-er (?) as if it were a Laser. My sails are starting to shiver, bear away a bit (trimmers easing and tightening away).

No, I think that given that sort of exposure and help, it is just possible that she really did call the shots, and got lucky into the bargain. Beginner's luck?

(Nice to think so, anyway!)

(I don't have to agree with YOUR opinions, but I'll defend your right to express them).

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: it is well-known to anyone

ONE: did you see the program? She was behind but slightly to windward, not in dirty air.
TWO: What on earth do you mean by 'They can't all be paying'????
THREE:How can a statement be fictitious?
FOUR: Have you then accepted that your stuff about cover, and refs to AC were inapt and irrelevant?

I already said I didn't see it. Channel 4 is not broadcast in Holland.
You introduced the term "paying tack". The other posts said that the fleet started on starboard, so I am assuming the tack they were on to be starboard. Whether or not the start line was fair I cannot judge, but then again can you? Either the starboard or port tack may have been the paying tack. Perhaps it was the port one.
Your "statement" is your opinion. Something you are quite good at. I have no idea whether it is fact or not. I prefer to think of it as fiction.
I don't know the meaning of "inapt". If a boat behind me tacked and I judged that his tack represented a threat to my leading position, or perhaps only to my position ahead, then I would cover him. Americas Cup is as much a race as a club dinghy event. Makes little difference if there are two or twenty boats racing. The aim is to win.

 

[billmacfarlane]

Thoroughly enjoyed the programme though I thought the lady even at the end of the programme didn't have a clue what was happening. She had no sense of where the wind was and how the boat could sail and the only thing that protected her was a very experienced and hard bitten racing crew. There isn't many people could do that in a month though . I thought she showed plenty of guts.

 

[Magic_Sailor]

I don\'t think we should

James, I think it would be a mistake for you to get inside information and post it. If it was luck then fine - we all need that and I thought she deserved it.

As things stand she's a young women with low self esteem who seemed to find greater self confidence as she progressed - despite being let down in some places. There were moments in the programme (which I thoroughly enjoyed unless you get the wrong idea) where I thought she was purposely made to look like a "silly girl" purely for television - it did not add to our understanding at all. The ridicule on the pontoon and being thrust into a very unstable dingy.

The only person who seemed to take her seriously was Chay Blyth.

However, despite this, she seemed a different person at the end and that could be spoilt by needless revelations.

Let her enjoy her glory.

Magic

 

[jamesjermain]

That reflects my view nicely. They didn't make her a sailor, far less a big boat skipper but SHE did extraordinarily well in the time, given the circumstances - and I do also agree with the comments about her mentors. To be chartitable the timing may have been bad, but more likely it was a question of who was writing the bigger cheques.

JJ

 

[tonywar]

It seems to me that the programme was about 'faking it'. The point was to perform in such a way as to fool the panel of experts, who monitored the race and asked questions afterwards. Hats off to Lucy, she did a great job and hats off to the programme makers not only did they apparently succeed in faking it with the judges but also a few members of this forum, who seem to have taking the while issue very seriously.

Again well done Channel 4 and very well done Lucy.

 

[Ohdrat]

Quote "...but also a few members of this forum, who seem to have taking the while issue very seriously." ehhh? Please explain..

Re taking the program seriously .. I only stated that to Jo Blogs this program would have been far more interesting and fun than that dreadful terribly ernest coverage of the Americas Cup..

Don't think anyone here would say that Lucy has learnt sail (have any of us.. isn't one of those things one goes on learning and improving) but as an introduction this programme was infinately better than other attempts to popularize sailing in any form (apart from Howards Way perhaps )

 

[tonywar]

It was more a reference to the other responses about the ins and outs of racing.

 

[clyst]

I rather suspect yhat her two "mentors" were approached by the program makers and were less than honest with the truth of the true nature of the prog. IMHO as soon as they realised the prog was a put up job they thought" BOLLOCKS TO THIS" and wanted as little as possible to do with it with out breaking contract !!! I may be wrong of course.

 

[JOHNBOY]

Just listen to you !
It’s no wonder Trash TV rules the waves.
However, I'll make room for Lucey on my boat.

 

[plopp]

Sailing is a learing program,thats the best part about it.
Damaged good luck to Lucy,I hope it has her self esteem a world of good, in this world you need it.

 

[Stingo]

Re: Lucy. if you want to go sailing....

Lucy

If you've found this thread and want to learn about cruising (racing is for folks that still have a point to prove and who knows what the point is) then send me a PM.

Well done to you anyway - your call on that tack or not.

Sexy Legs (well some girls call me that)

http://www.stingo.co.uk - now showing at a computer near you

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Tacking away

Sorry mate, but she was in dirty air - you get it close to windward, as well as to leeward. And in matched boats she was never going to overtake from there.

 

[Opinionated]

Re: Tacking away

She was not in dirty air, she was not being lee-bowed, she wasn't close enough to the next boat.

Your comment about matched boats should be sent to all those one-designs for their educations, silly sods - every week you see them doing it, you'd think they'd learn what even you can see?

If you haven't got clear air and you stay on the same tack, you will lose out and fall eventually below the boat whose dirty air you are getting. In this way, you will lose a whole boat-length. Maybe you will still get dirty air from another, and fall behind him.

If these boats are first and second, you are now third.

When they, and you, do tack on a shift, you will be tacking across all the other guys who 'tacked for clear air' or just took a flyer cos there seemed no way to get past. Watch VERY carefully the next race and see how the pros do it. Remember, if the fleet has about 5 pros (out of n-tee-n), only one of them can be in the lead. You will see that all 5, will end up pretty much together and the clear air they end up with is obtained by falling down on the leader. Those who keep tacking to clear their air fall back cos they are sometimes on the wrong tack, wasting time tacking and inviting the next crosser to tack on their lee-bow.

If you tack away for clear air, probably half the fleet are doing the same, and also losing out, as the leaders are (strangely enough) on the winning tack. If they aren't, and someone is one their quarter, they will pinch up if they think that will work, or deliberately slow a bit so as to be able to tack behind - as I said, one boat length against the hundreds of feet lost by being on the wrong tack.

Anyway, I'm right, you're right, who cares? The point is that this sort of tactical thinking wouldn't be in Lucy's repertoire - IF she made the decision to tack so early, it was just to get away from boats SHE wasn't going to get past, whatever the state of favour of the new tack. It paid - great.

My original point was that she saw boats ahead, no way past for Sweet Lucy (sorry, JJ) so she tacked - and got lucky.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I like to think it went that way, and good luck to her, and if I AM right, just think of what that would have done for her confidence? I reckon it would/will change her whole life!


(I don't have to agree with YOUR opinions, but I'll defend your right to express them).

 

[Opinionated]

Re: Tacking away

Shorter answer:

If your stay on the favoured tack, putting up with bad air, you may lose, say, 2 or 3 boat lengths, maybe even more.

If the tack you are on is favoured by, say, 10 degrees, and each time someone leebows you or puts you into dirty air one way or another, so you end up sailing for, say, 200 yds out of the first beat of 1 mile, then you will lose about 35yards.

Sailing in dirty air is preferable to tacking off, unless you are certain the tack you are on is not favoured by that sort of order. Even if you tack and then tack again, just how much have you lost by those two tacks? More than you would have lost by sailing marginally slower than the boat whose bad air you are getting.

(I don't have to agree with YOUR opinions, but I'll defend your right to express them).

 

[PeteMcK]

Clean air

Ken's right. A couple of boat lengths behind and a boat length or so to windward, you're still getting dirty wind and a header. Check your Marchaj and/or try it out. I've done both (the latter, too often - my starts are lousy). In her position, she had a free chance to tack and she had to take it: the next tack (back to starboard) then had the potential to put her in more of a controlling position over the boats ahead, especially the closest one, with a good chance that he would have to duck her or tack below (and, for him, in such heavy boats, timing a lee-bow wasn't on). Pick 'em off one by one is the golden rule, they say.
If the port tack starts to become headed, great, the starboard layline is coming closer and further right you are from the fleet, the better. Sail into it! And the bigger the header, the better (well, up to 45 deg).
Isn't that what happened. She HAD to tack onto port, tacked, fluked a shifting header (or a crew member spotted it), ended up well to windward, leader on the layline, first to finish. Or it might have been faked.
A flyer is a different matter, only to be used late and when it's down the pan anyway, or if you got out of bed and thought, "This, truly, is my luckiest of days!"
Anyway, how much reality TV is 100% "real"?