Extract core from part of furling line so that it lies better on drum?

[johnalison]

Its not so much course you steer ... its the use of sheet to control the fill of the sail while furling ......

When unfurling - again its sheet control as well as furling line .... even if you have to pull furling line a few feet and then return to unfurling .....

I assume my furler is similar to OP's ... open drum on a 609 Plastimo ... if I just furl / unfurl without using above - I often get snagged .... furling line bunched up ... furling line riding turn ... etc.

I agree that removing core from furling line can be advantage - but having shown a number of people over the years 'balancing' the two lines in use - they have not needed to resort to 'de-coring' the line. As another says - use the correct sized / type of furling line.

I think we are all agreed that keeping tension on during furling and unfurling is essential, in the first case to ensure a tight wrap and in the second to avoid snarls on the drum. I find that in moderate winds it helps when furling to steer such that a small part of the sail catches the wind to help tension the sheet, though in wild conditions I may prefer to blanket the sail altogether. Since I generally do this myself from the helm, having a tiller helps.

 

[[70521]]

Compact drum, heavy easy handle reefing line, no long tail to coil and tidy away. I fitted them to my previous and current boats and never had a snarl up or jam.

Sailspar Continuous Line System : Sailspar

That sounds an expensive solution to a simple issue.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

That sounds an expensive solution to a simple issue.

On normal systems the sheet pulls the sail out, the furling line rolls it up. I can't see any advantage to a continuous line system. In fact, you'd need to have three hands to use it.
EDIT:
I see it now, the endless line goes around the drum once then comes back along the opposite side deck, instead of rolling around the drum with possible foulups.
If it could be adapted to stop the full sail running out in the event of the working side of the line chafing through, it could have serious advantages.

 

[davidmh]

I agree with the consensus that the line needs to be kept taut when unfurling the sail. I find that if the line is furled a little loosely it looks ok but the last turn digs into the others turns especially if the sail collapses and fills as it is prone to when on a deep run. I was hoping that by taking out the core the line would become flat and hence less likely to jam in the slack coils. Does this sounds a reasonable solution.
David MH

 

[thinwater]

Note: Hood recomends removing the core from up to 1/3 of the line for large, overlapping headsails, where drum capacity is challenged. This is in the factory instructions and is how mine was originally installed. It is not a work-around.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I have a Furlex system, and my experience is that it is VERY sensitive to the diameter of the furling line. Either too big or too small doesn't work - either the drum fills up too much, or riding turns happen too easily. Of course, I keep tension on the furling line while setting the sail; that's part of the instructions. Using line of the specified diameter works best.

 

[srm]

On normal systems the sheet pulls the sail out, the furling line rolls it up. I can't see any advantage to a continuous line system. In fact, you'd need to have three hands to use it.
EDIT:
I see it now, the endless line goes around the drum once then comes back along the opposite side deck, instead of rolling around the drum with possible foulups.
If it could be adapted to stop the full sail running out in the event of the working side of the line chafing through, it could have serious advantages.

The line goes there and back on the same side using double guide blocks. On my cutter rig one line along each side.

I find it works very well with only my two hands, though have a small snubbing winch for the big headsail. Suits me and having sailed a fair bit with single line systems when skippering charter yachts I find my system a lot more convenient to use and no long tails to keep tidy. It is cleated off to hold the sail. Fail to see why you think the working side should chafe through if led correctly, probably less chance than with a single line system as the line is stronger, without the need to remove the core or use a small diameter to get it all on the drum, and not always loaded and wearing in the same spots.

It suits me, in fact having used it on my previous boat I fitted a pair on my current boat when re-rigging before sailing home rather than trust the elderly Furlex.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

The line goes there and back on the same side using double guide blocks. On my cutter rig one line along each side.

.Fail to see why you think the working side should chafe through if led correctly, probably less chance than with a single line system as the line is stronger, without the need to remove the core or use a small diameter to get it all on the drum, and not always loaded and wearing in the same spot.

I was musing on the possibility that the continuous line might be superior to single line systems in keeping the sail furled in the event of the line chafing through, but have since realised that it wouldn't make any difference.
Furling lines chafing through is a problem I am acutely aware of, as I was crew on a delivery from Greystones , Ireland, to Baiona, Spain, in preparation for the 2018 ARC, ( I didn't go, you'll begin to understand why), on which the line chafed through, on three occasions, in heavy weather, despite our best efforts to ensure that it was running correctly. What we did not know at the time was that at the front of the drum, the Allen- headed setscrew securing the cage had not been tightened up properly on original installation, allowing the line to rub on the sharp edge of the drum when the sail was half-furled. The owner's first and second bad decisions were to simply replace the line on the two occasions when it failed in his first year of ownership without any investigation of the cause or referring it to the original riggers.
We didn't spot this screw until tied up bows-to in Concarneau, where we had to pass it by every day for a week, while we were waiting for a replacement boom, as a result of two unintended gybes in quick succession, due to the skipper's umpteenth bad decision, which was to sail downwind in a Force7- 8 with a full genoa.
A method of locking the furling drum would be most useful.

 

[srm]

I was musing on the possibility that the continuous line might be superior to single line systems in keeping the sail furled in the event of the line chafing through, but have since realised that it wouldn't make any difference.

Should the line be cut or let go on the loaded side, as in your example, then yes the sail will deploy fully. However, the line is totally enclosed as it goes around the furling drum (similar to the grip of a self tailing winch and now common with in mast reefing gears) so no screws to cause hidden chafe.

I have used the gear offshore on both boats in conditions that have justified a deep reefed main and just a few metres of headsail exposed without any concerns about the gear, but I do make the load side of the line up on a cleat.

 

[Vega1447]

Its not so much course you steer ... its the use of sheet to control the fill of the sail while furling ......

When unfurling - again its sheet control as well as furling line .... even if you have to pull furling line a few feet and then return to unfurling .....

I assume my furler is similar to OP's ... open drum on a 609 Plastimo ... if I just furl / unfurl without using above - I often get snagged .... furling line bunched up ... furling line riding turn ... etc.

I agree that removing core from furling line can be advantage - but having shown a number of people over the years 'balancing' the two lines in use - they have not needed to resort to 'de-coring' the line. As another says - use the correct sized / type of furling line.

Yes I have a Plastimo 609.

My residual concern is that the decored metre or two of line will not be strong enough?

Thanks again..

 

[thinwater]

Yes I have a Plastimo 609.

My residual concern is that the decored metre or two of line will not be strong enough?

Thanks again..

That's a small furler. Yes, strong enough.

 

[Refueler]

Yes I have a Plastimo 609.

My residual concern is that the decored metre or two of line will not be strong enough?

Thanks again..

If the 'de-cored' line is the first few metres but not full length - then the part of line that needs greatest strength will still be with core.
When the sail is furled - then the 'de-cored' part will be the first part to be rolled onto drum as the sail starts to unfurl, the sail at this point will be small and only starting to catch wind. Once sail is unfurled - the 'de-cored' part will be well buried on the drum and when furling line is pulled to furl the sail - the full cored line will be available.

I have not 'de-cored' my furling line - but if I did - i would only do it for just slightly less than what I would consider a reasonably reefed sail.

 

[Refueler]

That's a small furler. Yes, strong enough.

Yes - but the furling line is sized to that drum as well - so not such a straight forward yes answer.

When you get down to these lighter lines - the choice of line can make a huge difference.

Just saying.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Yes - but the furling line is sized to that drum as well - so not such a straight forward yes answer.

When you get down to these lighter lines - the choice of line can make a huge difference.

Just saying.

The choice of line should be in the furler instructions. The choice of furler should be dictated by the boat and sails. If your line won’t fit the drum, one of these choices must surely be wrong. I wouldn’t fancy de coring my furling line. Even though I do understand your previous post. It isn’t a strength issue, more the remaining integrity of the line. Maybe it's ok if the line isn’t dyneema. A dyneema core is so slippery that theres a risk of just pulling the whole core out.

 

[thinwater]

Yes - but the furling line is sized to that drum as well - so not such a straight forward yes answer.

When you get down to these lighter lines - the choice of line can make a huge difference.

Just saying.

Yes, but like many things, the forces go down faster than the dimensions. On small boats, lines are mostly sized for hand more than strength.

 

[Boathook]

I agree with the consensus that the line needs to be kept taut when unfurling the sail. I find that if the line is furled a little loosely it looks ok but the last turn digs into the others turns especially if the sail collapses and fills as it is prone to when on a deep run. I was hoping that by taking out the core the line would become flat and hence less likely to jam in the slack coils. Does this sounds a reasonable solution.
David MH

I have found that taking the core out the line twists. Even if I start the season with it flat. It still takes up less space though.

 

[thinwater]

I have found that taking the core out the line twists. Even if I start the season with it flat. It still takes up less space though.

I have not noticed that.

• Path through guides to winch introduces twist.
• Coiling the tail with twist (very easy to accidentally induce twist unless you mindfully reverse loops--the most common cause of twist in lines).

remove the twists, and then be mindful of how you coil, or use a tail bag.

 

[Refueler]

Thinwater highlights a common trait ... bad coiling of lines.

The common mistake is to coil from the FREE end back to the fixed .... that prevents any natural twist that occurs from passing along and out via the free end.
Coiling should be done from FIXED end of line finishing up with the free end.
Done correctly - you don't even need a 'frenchman loop' to correct.

Its same with garden water hoses ....

 

[webcraft]

My furling line is just core, no outer, and it works well.

- W

 

[thinwater]

Thinwater highlights a common trait ... bad coiling of lines.

The common mistake is to coil from the FREE end back to the fixed .... that prevents any natural twist that occurs from passing along and out via the free end.
Coiling should be done from FIXED end of line finishing up with the free end.
Done correctly - you don't even need a 'frenchman loop' to correct.

Its same with garden water hoses ....

^^ This too!

Another method is a figure 8 coil. If you resist the temptation to make a flat coil and avoid rolling your wrist, a figure 8 will naturally form. Not always pretty, but no twists.