Extract core from part of furling line so that it lies better on drum?

[thinwater]

My furling line is just core, no outer, and it works well.

- W

The choise depends on line construction. Some are made with stripable covers and Dyneema core. Most polyester double braid core is not suitable for use bare and will just fray. I've used both methods.

 

[webcraft]

The choise depends on line construction. Some are made with stripable covers and Dyneema core. Most polyester double braid core is not suitable for use bare and will just fray. I've used both methods.

Pretty sure mine is doublebraid core and it seems fine (was on the boat when I got it)

- W

 

[Rappey]

My boat has a 40 year old solution that has never failed to work perfectly.
My genoas foot is 26ft so 6mm is my largest option for the furling line due to the amount of cord I have to get on the furling drum.
The deck mounted drum/winch winds in the genoa line onto its drum. Undo the brake lever and the drum is free to spool out when pulling on the genoa sheets but keeping tension on the furling line so it can't run away with itself.
Have similar system with steel cable for the mainsheet. So easy that even a small girl could easily wind up the main..

 

[fredrussell]

Thinwater highlights a common trait ... bad coiling of lines.

The common mistake is to coil from the FREE end back to the fixed .... that prevents any natural twist that occurs from passing along and out via the free end.
Coiling should be done from FIXED end of line finishing up with the free end.
Done correctly - you don't even need a 'frenchman loop' to correct.

Its same with garden water hoses ....

If you coil a rope in loops you are introducing twist. Agree it’s better to start from fixed end, but if you want to avoid twist completely repeated figure of eights from the fixed end, as per Thinwater’s tip above, is the way to go.

 

[srm]

If you coil a rope in loops you are introducing twist. Agree it’s better to start from fixed end, but if you want to avoid twist completely repeated figure of eights from the fixed end, as per Thinwater’s tip above, is the way to go.

I seem to remember, umteen years ago, when braided ropes started to become popular PBO or suchlike recommended that they should be coiled in figure of eights as unlike laid rope they had no natural twist.
If the eights are made carefully the rope can be allowed to run without risk of tangles.

 

[Refueler]

Marvelous ... would you lot care to send an instruction to Seamanship Centres / Marine Schools / Merchant Navy etc. to the effect that LOOPS are now superceded by fig 8's ??

 

[PetiteFleur]

That sounds an expensive solution to a simple issue.

The Sailspar system is very good - I had it on previous boat, the addition I added was a clutch on the reefing line, I fitted a Rutgerson clutch which at the time was the only one you could buy that dismantled and you could fit to an endless line. Bought when I happened to be at my local chandlery when the Rutgerson rep was demonstrating the clutch and I immediately bought it. Much easier than trying to get it on a cleat.

 

[fredrussell]

Marvelous ... would you lot care to send an instruction to Seamanship Centres / Marine Schools / Merchant Navy etc. to the effect that LOOPS are now superceded by fig 8's ??

It’s much faster to do a loop, I assume that’s why it’s always been the norm. But it’s hard to see how one coils a rope in loops without introducing twist. To use your hose example, imagine taking a coiled hose that is attached to tap and walking up the garden with it. When you reach its extent it’ll be corkscrew like UNLESS you remove the twist as you walk along. That’s one of the reasons the hose reel with spinning drum was invented I reckon.

Apols to OP for thread drift.

 

[srm]

Marvelous ... would you lot care to send an instruction to Seamanship Centres / Marine Schools / Merchant Navy etc. to the effect that LOOPS are now superceded by fig 8's ??

We are all free to coil lines as we wish. Both methods have their uses and disadvantages.

I use eights when I want a line to run freely without the risk of it jamming itself such as the lifting tackle for my dinghy and heavy warps that are stowed ready for use with stops to keep them in shape. I first learnt the advantages of using eights when setting up 150mm diameter seismic cables that had to be fed onto a drum.

 

[thinwater]

Pretty sure mine is doublebraid core and it seems fine (was on the boat when I got it)

- W

Proof it can work. But that rope is an unusual case. Stayset core, for example, is discarded after removal, because it's just a loose bundle of yard when outside the cover.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

It’s much faster to do a loop, I assume that’s why it’s always been the norm. But it’s hard to see how one coils a rope in loops without introducing twist. To use your hose example, imagine taking a coiled hose that is attached to tap and walking up the garden with it. When you reach its extent it’ll be corkscrew like UNLESS you remove the twist as you walk along. That’s one of the reasons the hose reel with spinning drum was invented I reckon.

Apols to OP for thread drift.

Coiling rope is one of the few things that is unavoidably right-handed, if you're using traditional laid ropes (Hawsers are different, but you're unlikely to coil them by hand!). Coiling it from the fixed end, you must coil it right handed or it will be coiled against the lay and kink terribly. Coiled with the lay, it will behave itself. Of course, that doesn't apply to modern braided lines - but conversely, they kink equally badly either way. Figure eights are the only safe way to avoid kinking in braided line.

I have to coil the very heavy duty charging cable for my EV. The only way to do that successfully is to put a twist into it as you coil it, and let the twists run out the end. But that has no capacity to absorb a twist at all.

Much later PS - the charging cable has to be in a flat coil or it won't fit in the storage bag. Figure Eights would work - but would take up too much room in the boot of the car.

 

[Refueler]

We are all free to coil lines as we wish. Both methods have their uses and disadvantages.

I use eights when I want a line to run freely without the risk of it jamming itself such as the lifting tackle for my dinghy and heavy warps that are stowed ready for use with stops to keep them in shape. I first learnt the advantages of using eights when setting up 150mm diameter seismic cables that had to be fed onto a drum.

mmmmm

Seismic work :

I sailed with CGG (Steam guns) and Western Geophysical (Air guns( ....

Even did Sub hunting in Fjords with short cable with CGG for Nato. But normal was the 3km cable ..... California Coast, Gulf of Mexico, Mediterranean, North Sea, East and West Africa.

 

[Refueler]

It’s much faster to do a loop, I assume that’s why it’s always been the norm. But it’s hard to see how one coils a rope in loops without introducing twist. To use your hose example, imagine taking a coiled hose that is attached to tap and walking up the garden with it. When you reach its extent it’ll be corkscrew like UNLESS you remove the twist as you walk along. That’s one of the reasons the hose reel with spinning drum was invented I reckon.

Apols to OP for thread drift.

Garden hose usually needs a 'frenchman' every so often .............. 'frenchman' is a loop that is inverted - the free part comes out UNDER the loop instead of above.

Having spent many years with heaving lines .... messenger lines ..... and various on board ships .... I'll carry on with what I saw, used and was instructed ......

I was aware and know about fig 8's - but its not seen on ships .... but then again - many things Yotties do are not seen on ships ...

 

[thinwater]

Hoses cannot absorb twist, so inverted loops are the way. Same with large rope (ships).

But a figure 8 with smaller ropes is trivial, and I'vbe been coiling 60 M climbing ropes this way for 40 years. Just lay the rope in your hand WITHOUT allowing your other wrist to twist or roll when passing loops over. The figure 8 will form automatically, without any special action. Same with laid rope, though mostly that is either a short dock line or the rode piled into a locker.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

mmmmm

Seismic work :

I sailed with CGG (Steam guns) and Western Geophysical (Air guns( ....

Even did Sub hunting in Fjords with short cable with CGG for Nato. But normal was the 3km cable ..... California Coast, Gulf of Mexico, Mediterranean, North Sea, East and West Africa.

Me too, also! North Sea and a land crew in Dorset. Horizon Exploration was the outfit I was with, back in about 1974-1976. But I was on the interpretation side; fieldwork was for experience and to fill gaps, not my career.

 

[fredrussell]

Having spent many years with heaving lines .... messenger lines ..... and various on board ships .... I'll carry on with what I saw, used and was instructed ......

I was aware and know about fig 8's - but its not seen on ships .... but then again - many things Yotties do are not seen on ships ...

Fair enough, but this is a yottie forum after all. And if you coil the lines of your yot in loops you will introduce twist. Just sayin’.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Yotties do lots of stuff ships crew don’t, and vice versa. It's not wrong, it’s a question of scale. Just like fending a dinghy off with your hand or foot, but not trying the same on a cruiser.

 

[Vega1447]

(Re furling line, as mentioned above I'm thinking of decoring a few metres so it will lie flat on the drum. )

I tried decoring a test piece, same 6mm diameter by exposing the core a metre in with various tools and pulling the core out with along nosed pliers. . I tried a few times and it was impossible to access the core without damaging the sheath.

I'm thinking of trying this alternative: cut a cm off sheath at each end of the actual furling line -about 18 metres long - to allow access to the core and try to pull say 2 metres of core through from one end then sew the now buried core end to prevent the core slipping.

Then snip off the exposed 2 metres of core and heat seal each end of the line.

This works fine with a spare 2 metre piece of 6mm braid on braid but will it work with an 18 metre length?

Or will friction defeat me?

The core in the 2 metre test piece seems quite slippy.

Thanks for any comments.

 

[thinwater]

Yes, I've done it that way also, for other reasons (to pull a long cover over Amsteel). Some milking will be involved. With new line it is easy, with used line it will take a few minutes longer.

You should be able to extract the core if you bunch-up the cover. But this can be very difficult with a tight cover.

 

[srm]

(Re furling line, as mentioned above I'm thinking of decoring a few metres so it will lie flat on the drum. )

I tried decoring a test piece, same 6mm diameter by exposing the core a metre in with various tools and pulling the core out with along nosed pliers. . I tried a few times and it was impossible to access the core without damaging the sheath.

I'm thinking of trying this alternative: cut a cm off sheath at each end of the actual furling line -about 18 metres long - to allow access to the core and try to pull say 2 metres of core through from one end then sew the now buried core end to prevent the core slipping.

Then snip off the exposed 2 metres of core and heat seal each end of the line.

This works fine with a spare 2 metre piece of 6mm braid on braid but will it work with an 18 metre length?

Or will friction defeat me?

The core in the 2 metre test piece seems quite slippy.

Thanks for any comments.

It might be easier to try cutting the end whipping (or whatever). Hold the core with your pliers and work the sheath back along the line. Once you have just enough core to tie off stretching most of the line straight between two strong points may help so that you can 'milk' short sections well back. However, if your line has been well loaded and weathered the sheath may well be too stiff and you will need a new line to modify.