Etiquette question

[awol]

Another vote for can't agree with that one I'm afraid.

If nothing else, that would mean that a boat being overtaken did not have to keep a lookout or maintain a safe speed, for example. Clearly an undesirable situation.

Luckily Rule 2 is in Part A so is not covered by the "not withstanding". Exactly what do you advise when a faster vessel is getting, in your opinion, too close to your stern? Which way are you going to veer and when?

 

[DFL1010]

Luckily Rule 2 is in Part A so is not covered by the "not withstanding". Exactly what do you advise when a faster vessel is getting, in your opinion, too close to your stern? Which way are you going to veer and when?

Without trying to be annoying, it depends on the context.

But again, are you arguing that a boat being overtaken is no longer bound by R5 to maintain a lookout?

 

[bedouin]

Why on earth not? "Keep out of the way of" is not , in my opinion, the same as "give way" and the "not withstanding" is very clear. Whether luffing an overtaker in a non-racing situation is good etiquette is another matter and would, again in my opinion, require a good reason which may not be obvious to the overtaker.

I think you need to re-read the rules. "Keep of out the way" is the wording the rules use to indicate the give way vessel (see Rule 16) and Rule 17 still applies.

 

[awol]

Without trying to be annoying, it depends on the context.

But again, are you arguing that a boat being overtaken is no longer bound by R5 to maintain a lookout?

Only if you believe that maintaining a lookout is not a "precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen".

 

[awol]

I think you need to re-read the rules. "Keep of out the way" is the wording the rules use to indicate the give way vessel (see Rule 16) and Rule 17 still applies.

Obviously your interpretation of "not withstanding" varies from mine.

 

[DFL1010]

Only if you believe that maintaining a lookout is not a "precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen".

Not what I was driving at. You claim that a boat subject to R13 is not bound by Part B I and II:

There is no requirement on the boat being overtaken to maintain its course - other rules of Part B I&II are excluded by Rule 13.

Since Rule 5 is a rule of Part B, section I, surely it would not apply under your interpretation of the 'notwithstanding' part of R13?

 

[ChromeDome]

I'm always happy to pass a wind, even if no none claim to own it.

I've been accused of taking another guy's wind, without realizing it. He had sail, I have engines.
Didn't spoil my day though.

 

[laika]

Why on earth not? "Keep out of the way of" is not , in my opinion, the same as "give way" and the "not withstanding" is very clear.

I agree with your point that interpretation of the colregs is relevant here. However I agree with bedouin. "Keep out of the way" is indeed the wording used elsewhere. "Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B, Sections I and II any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken." means regardless of any other rule in BI/II which determines who keeps out of the way (e.g. windward, port, power), the overtaking boat keeps out of the way.

And then rule 17 says: "Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way, the other shall keep her course and speed.". Rule 13 says the overtaking boat keeps out of the way of the other, which means the other must keep her course and speed.

"Notwithstanding" refers to the instruction to keep out of the way. It does not say that no other rules apply. They still do (it obviously doesn't become unnecessary to keep a proper lookout in an overtaking situation for example), they are simply overruled by rule 13 in the case of a conflict which there only is in the determination of who keeps out of the way of whom. Once that's established, there's no contradiction in the obligations of "the other vessel"

 

[Stemar]

Obviously your interpretation of "not withstanding" varies from mine.

That's how lawyers get rich

 

[Fantasie 19]

I would say, the latter.

Same

 

[Zagato]

Unwind and let him pass... a momentary flapping genoa would have been less grief than the following manoeuvres that ensued by both parties... and to the point of starting a thread on it.

 

[TiggerToo]

Ah, that's an advantage of having a holding tank that unaccountably didn't get mentioned in that other thread...

the problem is that in current UK waters no-one will have noticed any different.

 

[Praxinoscope]

In the situation described I would have held my course, put up with the short period of flapping Genoa and swore at him under my breath for being an inconsiderate prat.
As pointed out previously, if racing then tough, it’s all part of the game, and luff him up.

 

[Bathdave]

In the situation described I would have held my course, put up with the short period of flapping Genoa and swore at him under my breath for being an inconsiderate prat.
As pointed out previously, if racing then tough, it’s all part of the game, and luff him up.

Thank you for your concise response, …that seems to be the general consensus, and that’s what I shall do if it happens again

 

[PhillM]

+1

 

[oldbloke]

Leaving aside colregs, I can't see the logic of your tactic. If you are already in the wind shadow a gentle luff is only putting you further in it. Your 3 options were, 1 , suck it up till he was clear, 2, luff across his bow into clear air, or 3 , bear away to get down into clear air.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

The other solution is to buy a faster boat. We don’t often have this trouble.

 

[RJJ]

Leaving aside colregs, I can't see the logic of your tactic. If you are already in the wind shadow a gentle luff is only putting you further in it. Your 3 options were, 1 , suck it up till he was clear, 2, luff across his bow into clear air, or 3 , bear away to get down into clear air.

Or 3b gybe yourself and sail your best angles

 

[benjenbav]

Imho, when two yachts are on more or less the same heading in the same ocean, they are inevitably drawn together despite efforts by both skippers to keep a decent distance apart.

I can certainly remember times when I have sailed way off my course so as to avoid this phenomenon, only to tack back and discover that my new course will take me closer than I wanted to the other yacht.

Perhaps the best way to deal with it is to acknowledge that these things happen and just try to think the best of one’s fellow seafarers.

 

[ashtead]

I think as the bigger faster boat he should have tried to go down wind of you but at 3 boats lengths away he wasn’t that close and even if either had some form of gear failure etc enough space to react . It might irritate but I think what you have experienced is fairly standard in the Solent particularly with sunsail types.