Etiquette question

[Chiara’s slave]

We always sail through other cruising boats’ lee. It’s just good manners.

 

[ProMariner]

I think the other boat lost the etiquette upper hand when he decided to overtake you to windward, so he loses the right to feel annoyed over your actions.

That said, I like to think I would have just poled out the headsail and gone goose winged, giving me the right to feel smug.

 

[mjcoon]

We always sail through other cruising boats’ lee. It’s just good manners.

I'm sure that has long been an assumption, especially sailing to windward. But IIRC Tom Cunliffe (who he?) opined in YM a few years ago that he favoured overtaking to windward and getting out of the way ASAP. There might have been some controversy...

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I'm sure that has long been an assumption, especially sailing to windward. But IIRC Tom Cunliffe (who he?) opined in YM a few years ago that he favoured overtaking to windward and getting out of the way ASAP. There might have been some controversy...

We’ve usually got a decent speed differential anyway, so zipping through to lee is the right thing for us. We’re not going to hang around there like a bad smell.

 

[bedouin]

Takes quite a big speed differential to be able so sail to leeward of another boat - if you are not careful you will get stuck in the other's wind shadow and in many cases you will have made the other "stand on". I would certainly not alter course to try to overtake to leeward

 

[Chiara’s slave]

You don’t have a Dragonfly though.

 

[johnalison]

I'm sure that has long been an assumption, especially sailing to windward. But IIRC Tom Cunliffe (who he?) opined in YM a few years ago that he favoured overtaking to windward and getting out of the way ASAP. There might have been some controversy...

I noted that too. There have been occasions when I have put it to the test, and so far managed without being shot at, but in most cases it was when there was a large speed differential and only a short time of overlap. On the other hand, it really makes sense that a boat that would struggle to get through the other boat’s lee should be expected to pass to windward and get the business of overtaking over as quickly as possible, if only because there is always a risk of conflict or collision.

 

[GrandadPig]

Is a Dragonfly similar to an Anderson 21 ?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Totally. Like brothers from another mother.

 

[xyachtdave]

I'll admit that I've never given any thought to which side I pass another boat, I just give them as much space as possible and get gone.

Sorry everyone.

 

[IanCC]

Over the weekend we were on a downwind leg sailing about 160 apparent …I actually wanted to do about 170 to get to my target, which was a marina, but the Genoa kept collapsing and I didn’t want to goosewing at the point

wind was around 8-10 knots apparent, so we were moving along ok

another, slightly longer boat exited the departure point (out of a lock) at the same time, and initially took quite a different line.

it became clear that he was also heading to the same location, and having been both upwind and down wind of us and sailing a different line, he eventually settled on a line that was parallel to us, following a course that would be about 30 m apart when he came alongside, but upwind of us. He gradually gained on us to the point that he was casting a wind shadow that caused our Genoa to keep collapsing.

we were sailing on autopilot, so I clicked round a few degree to windward just to fill the Genoa again. He continued to gain on us slowly and again his wind shadow started impacting us so I clicked up a few degrees again

this continued for another 5 minutes

I wasn’t trying to stop him overtaking if that was what he wanted to do, we were never in a trending towards collision situation, ..I just wanted to keep the boat moving and didn’t see why I had to let him kill me ..

in the end he bore right away, gybed and went behind me, off to 200 -300 metres down wind, where he proceeded to gybe again and set himself on a converging course. Cos he was going maybe .3 knot faster he was ahead of us when our tracks merged 30 minutes later. He did not look amused and seemedlike he might have thought I was luffing him deliberately to stop him overtaking, rather than making small course alteration just to keep my sails filled.

I get it that if we were racing, I could have luffed him and I would normally have tried to stay ahead of him, and he would have been trying to get ahead of us.

I believe I understand the COLREGS

and I know I could have gybed away as he started to blanket me.

my question is about the etiquette involved, as it’s nit something I’ve really experienced or thought about before. if we had been on a reach or a fetch I would have been able to trim the sails to manage the turbulence, but the course angle didn’t seem to give me any option other than head up a few degrees.

- would it have been good etiquette/generally accepted practice for him to give us more room before he tried to overtake us, to leave us our wind ?

- would it have been good etiquette for me to have accepted being blanketed and waited for the few minutes it would take him to get past t the speed differential he had with my sails flapping ?

Get on vhf and talk to each other. No?

 

[DFL1010]

Get on vhf and talk to each other. No?

No.

 

[Biggles Wader]

Get on vhf and talk to each other. No?

One or both have probably got the VHF turned off-----We have a whole thread bickering about that!

 

[DFL1010]

Not sure why @Capt Popeye dislikes my comment.
The MCA have been quite clear on their strong feelings on the matter of VHF for deconfliction services.
I may, for example, draw their attention to MGN 324.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Not sure why @Capt Popeye dislikes my comment.
The MCA have been quite clear on their strong feelings on the matter of VHF for deconfliction services.
I may, for example, draw their attention to MGN 324.

Appologies Capt DFL my mistook , I guess I was refering to that post on Using VHF to monitor others ; , where it might appear that not all afloat are (do) listen in to general chat and information from other scources ; so YES I agree with you Listening in is most important

 

[Capt Popeye]

I'll admit that I've never given any thought to which side I pass another boat, I just give them as much space as possible and get gone.

Sorry everyone.

Maybe its a case of monitoring all others around you in you collective Water Space , then maybe steering a 'dog leg' course that avoids them others steering a more direct course to a probable destination ?

 

[Poignard]

Maybe its a case of monitoring all others around you in you collective Water Space , then maybe steering a 'dog leg' course that avoids them others steering a more direct course to a probable destination ?

May I suggest, Captain, with all due humility, that "probable" is a word best avoided in anything to do with collision avoidance

 

[NormanS]

To me, it all seems a fuss about nothing. If the OP had just held his course, the overtaking vessel, who was three boat lengths distant, would have safely and speedily overtaken. But no, the OP kept on repeatedly luffing up, both prolonging the agony and reducing the previously safe distance between the two boats. I wouldn't like to think that any car driver would behave like that. No sympathy from me. I'm surprised that this thread has gone on for so long.