Equipment for extended cruise

[hylas]

I already give the answer in another thread..

Should I give my own opinion about chain??.. I perfectly know that some people will disagree.. but..

The main and ONLY advantage of the chain is that it is the only and perfect mean to avoid shaffing of the anchoring rode on agressive sea beds...

Except this point, chain has all disadvantages..:
Stored in the bow chain locker, it ad an heavy weight where it should not be
- Chain is working on the opposite it should work:
o with light wind, it give a perfect horizontal pull to the anchor and the best holding
o with moderate wind, its weight and catenary effect give a perfect shock absorbing effect.
o As the wind build up, the chain will become more straight (and this with as few as 25/30 knots of wind) then the pulling angle will increase and as a consequence, the holding of the anchor will decrease.
o When the shock absorbing effect will be necessary, the "bar tight" chain will not give it any more..

If there will be some waves entering the mooring place, the resulting shocks will be then directly transfered to the anchor, which then has more chance to break free.. and more serious, the chain is subject to high "picks" of pulling force and has very high risks of breaking..

Which lenght of chain??

During the last seven and half months, I spent 129 days moored (out of 228) into 61 different moorings. The mean water height has been 6.50 metres and the scope 5/1. The total lenght of the mooring line was about 30 meters for which 23.5 metres has been lying on the bottom (30 - 6.50 m)
Therefor, I believe a lenght of about 25 meters will be perfect.. If the water height is less, then you will be anchoring with an all chain line.. if the wind build up.. you will give more lenght but the wind will push the boat and the rope line will not shafe on the bottom..

Which length of anchoring rode??

Holding is in direct relation with the pulling lenght of the rode.. (or better, the pulling angle).
Generaly speaking, with a scope of 4/1 you will have about 55 % of the maximum holding of the anchor, with a scope of 6/1 about 70 % with a scope of 8/1: 80 % and with 10/1 about 85 % the maximum. - 100 % holding will be achieved with an horizontal rode or a "Infinite/ 1" scope.
Increasing the scope will be efficient up to 10/1 - With more than 10/1, a large increase of the scope will only give a negligeable increase of the holding... Therefor, the total lenght of the mooring line has to be adapted in relation with the conditions you are expecting to meet and should be about ten times the water height you will have to anchor in.. (I suggest 100 meters)

What to use with the chain??

Natural fibers are no longer used.. out of "Chemical" fibers, the one which has the best elasticity (shock absorbing effect) is polyamide (Nylon, Perlon, Enkalon...).. as the breaking strenght of the 10 mm chain is 5 tons, a 16 mm polyamide line will be well adapted.. (5.6 tons) Don't oversize the rope.. Yes you will increase the strenght but at the same time you will decrease the elasticity.. and "Elasticity" is the secret..

You have the choice of three strands rope or eight strands rope (also called "square line") Eight strands rope is better..

How to connect rope to Chain??

Remember: A CHAIN HAS THE RESISTANCE OF ITS WEAKEST LINK...

a) With an "eye" splice over a thimble and then a shackle on the chain..
ALWAYS use a shackle one size biger than the chain.. and secure the pin with a monel wire.
This is a perfectly safe solution but the eye splice will have difficulties to go throuh the bow roller.. will no pass the windlass gipsy and will never go through the deck pipe...

b) with a rope to chain splice..
Two ways: the wrong one and the right one..
a) NEVER splice the rope over the rope after a "U" turn into the last chain link.. you will loose about half of the rope resistance
b) Make a direct rope to chain splice. This is quite easy to do.. when you know how!!!.. Unfortunately it is not possible to make drawings on this forum, but leave me your E.mail address and I will send you free and personnally, all necessary explanations..

I can spend hours or even days talking about this subject.. giving you looonnnggg mathematical formulas, and if necessary to convince poeple, I will.. This is a complex and highly technical subject and I'm not planning to write pages about it on this forum....

Last point, I'm currently in the LAS PALMAS (Canaria) harbor covering the A.R.C. event.. I had the curiosity to check the mooring line of those boats which will cross the ocean and spend plenty of time anchored in the Caribean.. I was affraid to realise than more than half the float has a dangerous mooring line.. (Not talking about inadequate anchors) Main points are:
A too small, rusted and not secured shackle
The use of "beautifull stainless steel anchor connector" The most common one has an axe drilled to put a "security " screw on the opposite side.. although this is a wonderfull idea to avoid unscrewing of the axe.. the hole in the middle of the axe decrease the strenght. - For a 5 tons chain resistance, this connector has only three tons of resistance.. check yours!!!.
Swivels.. theory is perfect, but under loads, swivels doesn't work.. but more than that, it is important to check their breaking strenght.. ?Not only with a "on line" pull but also with a side way pull..
Connecting links.. they have a breaking strenght of only few hundreds of kilo.. NEVER use them on a mooring line.

What to use to connect the anchor and and the chain??

a shackle is perfect.. as before, always one size bigger than the chain..and secure the pin..
the simplest and perfect way is to use a toggle.. the same you use for your rigging.. and again one size bigger than the chain (12 mm for 10 mm chain)


35 knots of wind is very common.. I have been living full time onboard for more than 10 years now.. and I will tell you that I will never use a "fluke" anchor or a CQR anymore.. All over the world, there is more and more publications about stable and unstable anchors... If you read the last anchor study done by John Knox (PBO July and August issues) both the Britany and the CQR are unstable.. When I started sailing full time, I was equiped with both CQR and Britany and from my own experience, I fully agree with John Knox's conclusions. (don't have them anymore onboard)

If you have a Britany small enough to be pulled by hand.. just try it on the vet border of a beach.. You will not need long to understand what "corkscrewing" means..

Another study done by the French magazine "Voiles magazine" in November 2001 shows beautiful underwater photos of both Britany and FOB corkscrewing..

 

[chrisrixon]

Thanks for that. Good food for thought.

What is corkscrewing (I don't habe the mags you mention)?

I discovered another advantage of chain/rope ... if anchored in wind against tide (eg a river) you can let out past the chain to a bit of rope so that the chain doesn't damage the bottom of your boat.

Another question. What do you think about angels and what is the best place to put them eg half way up etc ...

 

[gunnarsilins]

Dear Hylas

Thanks for very interesting reading and som real thinkworthy views.

But there are a few ponts where I strongly disagree, at least from my experience in Swedish waters.

I Sweden, when sailing in the sheltered archipelago in the Baltic sea, where tide is non-existent, we mostly don´t lye to an anchor only.
(This is why Swedish made yachts very often don´t have any bow rollers or means for carrying a bow anchor)

Instead we usually drop an anchor from the aft, about 3 boat lengths from the shore, in depths around 3-5 metres, and moor the bows to a suitable rock and climb straight ashore.

The ground in these waters are mostly mud/clay, sometimes mixed with a little amount of sand. There is no kelp or any other kind of extensive growth.
When using an anchor under these circumstances I have found (and many other yachtsmen with me) that the Bruce seems to be a good choice.
There have been situations when my 15 kg Bruce don´t drag even with a force 5 beam on. This is quite impressive when considering a fore/aft mooring and a beam-on wind on my yacht with her big windage.

Sometimes, closer to the open sea the bottom might be of bedrock but not the ragged ones you have in Bretagne or in the British isles.
The bedrock in Sweden is having a very fair, mostly flat surface, abraded and almost polished by the inland ice. It is more like the floor in a living room. This very fair surface is only occosionally interrupted by tiny cracks and crevices.
When anchoring on that kind of ground all anchors just slide, you can even hear the sound of it, until it (hopefully) finds a grip in one of these small cracks.

Without doubt the best anchor under these circumstances is the Fisherman. All others, especially the 'plough' varieties like CQR, Bruce, Delta, and I assume the Spade, have the wrong angle in the tip for finding a good grip in these cracks.
Without doubt anchoring on a ground like this is very risky business, and must be avoided, but sometimes there is no choice....

So this is why I will stick to my Bruce and emergency-only Fisherman.

But my bow anchor is a different matter. My 45 lbs CQR with 56 m 10 mm chain seems to work well in Swedish waters, if I avoid the areas with bedrock.
But I have now realized two things from all feed-back I´ve got when putting out my questions on the ybw forums, that the CQR probaly is on the light side and that 56 m of chain is a bit short for exposed Scottish and Brittany anchorages.

Regarding the chain I take your opinion for granted and will splice 40 metres of warp into it.

But the anchor..... I´m not sure what to decide here. A Spade is VERY tempting. Your comments, and some recent articles in magazines are quite convincing.
What I feel is lacking are some direct reports/experinces from users. I´ve been trying to find such on different yachting forums, but they are few.
On the other hand it´s easy to find a massive amount of yachtsmen who swear by their CQR. But not to forget that yachtsmen are conservative....

I have not made my mind yet, it will either be a bigger QCR or a Spade. A Delta does not seem to have any major benefits over the CQR.

So what is you recommendation for the size of a Spade? Remember, I want an anchor which is one size up from what might be considered ideal. Saving weight is not the issue in my case!
My yacht is an Angus Primrose designed Moody 42 from the 70-ties. She´s is ketch rigged with high freeboards and a deck saloon. So she´s having a considerable windage. LOA 12,65 m, beam 4,06 m. Displacement when cruising is near 13 tons.

 

[hylas]

Two answers

1* Corkscrewing is the caracteristic of "unstable" anchors (as demonstrated in the excellent John Knox article - PBO July and August) to break out like a "cork screw"..
On the other way.. stable anchors, under the strongest pulls, will slightly drag but stay anchored.. a Huge difference in term of security..

2* Angels?? a Brillant "marketing Idea" - Which weight will you use?? about 10 kg??
This is the weight of 4 meters of 10 mm chain.. give 4 meters more, very easy, it cost nothing and it is as efficient.. (for 20 kg use 8 meters of chain..)

 

[HaraldS]

Hi Gunnar!

Interesting post and interesting answers and opinions. Haven’t been looking at the board for some time as I was down at Lagos looking after my boat and this now was the first post I looked at. I think many of us have all been thinking about these topics and still are. I don’t have strong opinions to offer but can tell you what I have been using and what the experience was:

1. Fixed VHF with DSC instead of the non-DSC we already have.

I have VHF with DSC with a full fledge DSC controller (Simrad Shipmate 8400), I think the unit is obsolete now and there is cheaper better stuff on the market. It would be low on my list after the three-year experience of using it. Depending on where you cruise you may get some DSC alerts. In Denmark I found it annoying as they sent out a DSC alarm for every Securite broadcast, so you the thing goes off every few hours, and you hear what you knew already. Other places like Norway and UK seem to be more sensible and only set it off if there is an emergency, and that’s quite fine. When you need to raise a ship, say for collision avoidance, you can in theory do an all ships broadcast on DSC and then identify the appropriate vessel on 16, but so far I have always gone straight to calling on 16 and got an answer. That leaves it to automatic distress transmission being the only real con, and the fact that it probably carries further than a voice Mayday.

2. EPIRB

Have one. Think you owe it to the rest of the crew as a responsible skipper, as it raises chances of survival in a disaster quite substantially. With kids and family I think you will view it the same way.

3. Washing machine (running on shore power) Space for it is quite easy to arrange.

Have a washer dryer, a small unit that washes 4kg and dries 2kg. It’s a must for my wife and we have been running it very frequently. More the washer than the drier, but when in lousy weather for days with no chance to dry stuff outside, the drying part comes in very handy. But, if you think on only using it on shore power, you may want to rethink this, as you will most likely find a coin washer or a laundry, where you find shore power. We are mostly anchoring and hardly in a marina, so we really need it as much as the generator and the water maker. We value that independence very high.

4. Freezer (we can cope with the extra power demand)

Yes, great stuff. Have been sailing without for many years, but really appreciate the difference in what you can stock and enjoy.

5. Handheld GPS in addition to the existent fixed one

Unless you are waiting for a real reason to use your sextant other than for fun, take a second hand held GPS and store it in a way that makes it likely to survive a lightning strike. I keep mine in a metal box, baking foil will help as well, or some people put it into the microwave during a thunderstorm. All will reduce the magnetic field substantially and dramatically improve the survival chances of the GPS.

6. Handheld VHF in addition to the existent fixed one

Have one and it certainly is a good safety item, either as a backup if the main VHF dies or hopefully not, from the liferaft. But is also very valuable to communicate free between dink and mother ship. We use it a lot for this.

7. Extra anchor(s)? (The yacht displaces 12 tons)
We have on bow a 45 lbs CQR with 56 m chain and electric windlass.
A 15 kg Bruce with 6 m chain and 56 m 'Ankarolina' is carried as kedge aft in a roller on the bathing platform.
As spares we do carry;
A): A 45 lbs CQR with 6 m chain and 60 m warp.
B) A 35 kg Fisherman with 10 m heavy chain and 50 m heavy warp.

Lots of interesting options have been raised on this thread regarding the anchoring issue, so I’ll stick to explaining what we use and what experience we had.

Like you we have four anchors. Our bow anchor is a 50kg Bruce on 100m of 10mm chain. We also have a permanently attached 50 lbs CQR as stern anchor, with it’s own windlass and 60m of 8mm chain. We also carry a 13kg Fortress on 5m 8mm chain and 60m rope and a 30kg Fortress with 10m of 13mm chain and 100m of 22mm rope. The last I have never used so far, it’s there for peace of mind. The other three we used a lot.

According to the common tables the 50kg Bruce is oversized by at least one size for our 20-ton boat. But results have been great, it always settled quickly and well and we never broke it out or dragged it. In tight anchorages I motor it in at a 1:5 scope and then reduce to 1:3. Never had a problem, even in strong currents or heavy weather.

I was concerned about the weight, but when you think that the extra weight compared to a 30kg anchor is only equivalent to 10m of chain, the decision for an anchor that always sets on the first attempt is easy.

The 50 lbs CQR has been disappointing. It let us down several times and from many tries I conclude that it will only set appropriately with a 1:6 or better scope. Anything shorter and I could just pull it in with the electric windlass. The only good news is that it self stows very well on my transom.

Much better results we achieved with the small Fortress (13kg), in all the situations where I couldn’t get the CQR to hold, even after several retries the lighter Fortress worked on the first attempt. It is our favorite anchor to bring out by dinghy. The only down side I noticed is that it is too light (specific weight) to go down in a stronger (more than 3 knot) current. In a strong current it would simply float!

8. Extra water. We carry 450 litres. One extra tank of approx 250 litres can be built in.

Several years ago we sailed across the Atlantic (slow, 24 days), and used about half of the 300 litres we carried. Today we use 60 litres a day with four people, but I would reduce that very easily to a much lower number if necessary. So I think if you can make sure you always have a 100 litres left and then start rationing if needed, you’d be fine. So it is simply a question of lifestyle and smell.

9. Watermaker.

Our current boat is the first with a watermaker, but I would now put it VERY high on my list. The independence it gives you, to avoid bad harbours, expensive marinas or questionable water, combined with the new decadence on board is certainly worth it to us. We get about 80 litres of water for one litre of diesel, and diesel is usually easier to get.

10. Software for receiving watherfaxes on laptop (laptop and receiver is already there, but not so much metereological knowledge...)

Very useful. I use both, a dedicated weather fax and weather text receiver and the laptop combined with the SSB. I’m also using grib files and weather routing and it has been extremely helpful on longer passages.

11. The new Nasa Weatherman

Don’t know the device.

12. Navtex

Great in northern Europe. Haven’t got much use out of it further south. In Portuguese waters, tuning to their stations in Monsanto, Horta and Funchal, all I got was some securitee warnings of lower importance, and very rarely a weather report.

13. Deck fitting for emptying waste tank in harbour. Now it only can be emptied into the sea.

Have one, but never used it. Having sailed a lot in the states I know you need it there.

14. We are carrying a rigid dinghy in davits. It has a 20 years old 2 hp Evinrude, quite battered and running more on old habits then on pure reliability.
Can we stick to oars as a back-up or should we consider investing in a better outboard before leaving?

I assume your rigid dinghy rows well, our inflatable doesn’t. So if you are into short distances, oars should be as good as a bad small outboard. But I must say that I enjoy the extra independence that you get from a dinghy that can quickly take you a few miles for shopping supplies. Our relatively fast dinghy is very popular with the young crew and they even manage to use it for wakeboarding. I know it’s decadent, but they think it’s cool and I have happy company by great youngsters.



15. Roller reefing (150%) genoa, main and mizzen are all 2 years old. We will have a removable inner forestay with a storm jib.
Shall we carry an old set (20 years+) of sails (main, mizzen, genoa) as spares?

I think you will need the space for other stuff and you should be save with the regular sails.

 

[hylas]

Re: Dear gunnarsilins

Thanks for your comments, I will try to answer all your different points...
First, I have to admit that I don't have any experience of the Baltic sea.. (It should be beautiful.. but.. Brrr.. too cold for me.. ) But instead, I have a large experience of sailing and anchoring in the whole Med, which is also a sea without tide and the technic you are describing, is very commonly used in the Med too..

First question?? Is it any technical reason why you are recommending the Bruce anchor for this specific use?? Or is it only because this is the anchor you are currently using??

In the Med, and mostly in the "Meltem wind" area.. force 5 is considered as a light wind.. :0)..
Except for testing purpose, where, at each time, the holding of the Bruce anchor has usually been much lower than nearly all other anchors, I've never used the Bruce anchor on my own boat.. I have used this technic, first with the CQR anchor and when pulling with the windlass, it was not uncommon to pull the anchor up to the point where we have had to re-anchor again.. Same with the Britany anchor that I've been using also for some years in the Med..
I remember once: I misjugde the distance (I didn't whant to put my anchor too close to the other boat's anchors.. ) and I arrived at the end of my chain and only at 3 meters from the quai.. We attached the boat to the bollards of the quai and tried with the two Lewmar 46 winches to pull the boat closer to the quay.. we haven't be able to move the SPADE anchor from one single centimeter.. (this was with an early prototype)
About flat rocks.. I fully agree with you:" Without doubt anchoring on a ground like this is a very risky business, and must be avoided " This is a "Russian Roulette" anchoring and Fisherman anchor or not, a prudent sailor must always have an alternative choice..
In sea grounds which are "mostly mud/clay, sometimes mixed with a little amount of sand, with no kelp or any other kind of extensive growth." and with light winds.. nearly all anchors will work..
If you are a liveaboard sailor, planning to anchor in different places all over the world, you shouldn't choose your anchoring gear for the easiest situations, but instead for the worse situations you are likely to meet.. then, up to my opinion, neither the CQR, nor the Bruce would be the right choice..
I know that you will answer me that very famous sailors did sail round the world with either a CQR or a Bruce.. I have to agree.. Christopher Colombus, when discovering America, has been equiped with fisherman anchors and before that, Pheniciens who have extensively sailed the Med and the Atlantic have been equiped with "stone and rope" anchors.. They also have been using a magnetic needle to find their way.. If you are using the modern "satellite" position finding gear.. why will you still use technologies which have been invented 70 years aggo or much more??..
A very famous French round the world navigator Bernard Moitessier loose its also very famous boat "Josua" during a strong blow when its CQR break out..
Again to my opinion, there are two famillies of anchors..:
- "Hinged" anchors which are unstable and should be avoided as a main anchor
- And stable anchors (different brand names available) which are the anchor of choice..
Out of the stable anchors, my choice will be the anchor which is best performing in all situations (See conclusions of John Knox's anchor tests in PBO August issue.. )
You're right again when you said " there is a lack of direct reports/experiences from users".. As this is a relatively new product in UK.. but perhaps if there are some users in this Forum, they will comment on this point.. (also ask Böwick Marin, the importer of the Bruce anchor??) All published comments, either in the British press, the French one, U.S.A and as far as New Zealand press... are all whithout exception very favorable, and this relatively new anchor has already an impressive list of awards that never any anchor has had..
I was this morning wandering on the ARC pontons.. Out of 104 boats, 58.6 % had a CQR as a main anchor, 13.46 % a Bruce - 7.69 % a Delta - and 3.84 % a Britany, a Bügel or a SPADE - 2.88 % a Danforth - 1.92 % a Fortress for only 0.96% a Fisherman and other "exotic anchors".(Brake, FOB etc..)
Considering these figures, it is obvious that CQR is the anchor of choice.. but you also have to consider that the CQR has nearly no long term results if you compare it whith some thousands years of experience of the Fisherman.. and even more to the "stone and rope" anchor type.. Also compare the experience of the magnetic nail with the very limited experience of the GPS.. Which one are you using??
About the Delta?? Also up to my opinion.. between the CQR and the Delta, for me the choice will be straightforward..: - the Delta.. for mainly one raison.. the CQR falls in the unstable group when the Delta is a stable anchor.. Unfortunately.. I couldn't publish tests curves on this forum.. but believe me, the Delta is far more better than the CQR...

In France, size of anchors are defined by law.. in relation with the boat size and displacement.. and I agree whith their recommendations. For a 12.65 metres / 13 tons boat, they require a 20 kg anchor (or 9 kg aluminum anchor)
(on my own boat 12 metres / 14 tons, I have a 15 kg main anchor..)

Fair winds and peacefull anchorages...

 

[hylas]

Hi HaraldS

I fully agree with you, the Bruce always settle quickly and well... This is one of its main advantages.. The suggested size for a 20 tons boat is a 34 kg anchor. If you use a 50 kg anchor or an increase of about 50%, you will be perfectly safe as you compensate the lower holding by a large increase of the size.. perfectly OK..

And as you pointed out, an increase of 16 kg is nothing in comparison with the total weight of your boat..

As Aluminum is aproximately 1/3 the weight of steel.. your 13 kg Fortress (equivalent to x 3 = 39 kg steel anchor) is perfectly well adapted.(not small!) and with a 30 kg one ( equivalent to x 3 = 90 kg.steel anchor.) I will be quite surprised if you ever move..

I strongly disagree about only one point with you.: -. a 10 mm chain is much too small for a 20 tons boat.. You need at least, a 12 mm chain and a 22 mm rope and from 20 to 30 tons a 14 mm chain is suggested.. (13mm, would be perfectly OK) not talking about your 8 mm stern chain.. this is the suggested size for a 4.5 tons boat!!!.. I suppose you never experienced real heavy weather with such a small chain?..

A 8 mm chain as a breaking strenght of 3.2 tons or approximately the resistance of a 12 mm rope and this is much too small for mooring a 20 tons boat..
Fair winds and peacefull anchorages..

 

[HaraldS]

I actually agree with you with respect to chain strength, the problem that like with most things on baord you need to compromise. Just imagine that the standard specification for my boat is with 60m of 8mm chain and a 30kg Bruce!

I could have taken 60m of 13mm chain instead of 100m of 10mmm chain for about the same weight. And that is about as much weight as I could justify on my type of boat where weight limitation in the bows is a tradeoff for excellent upwind sailing capabilities, which I really appreciated this summer.

I think my 10mm chain is specified with a breaking load of 5.5 tons and I did look at HT chain which would have given 7.5 t for the same weight. But was told that they are brittle and that there had been many failures.

Anyway, for the worst cases I carry 2*100m of 22mm rope and a 10m 13mm chain lead.

Compromising the reasoning chain has been: Absolute weight limitation, then a few meters of chain versus a bigger anchor, then allowing for anchoring depths of about 20m and then ultimate breaking load.

I think 99.9% of the time I will anchor in conditions that would not even lift and stretch the whole length of chain and come close to breaking load, many more times I will need to anchor with shorter scope because of reduced space and then the bigger anchor helps.

So I think it isn't difficult to have good and reliable anchors, but the technology for scope is certainly not what I would hope for. Ideally you want something of strength and elasticity of a good rope, with chafe and self stowing capabilities of a chain. That would be an invention, instead of yet another anchor!