Equipment for extended cruise

[gunnarsilins]

This is a double posting from Scuttlebutt,

As some of you already know, me and my wife will go for a 18 month cruise in our Moody 42 deck saloon ketch.
Roughly the route will be from Sweden via Denmark, Frisian Islands and Englands East coast up to Scotland, round Cape Wrath, Hebrides, Ireland, SW England and across to France. Then coast-hopping all the way down to Finisterre. Then the Canaries, Morocco, western Med and the French-German canals back to the Baltic sea.

The basic crew will be my wife and I. My kids (11 and 16) will join for extended periods now and then, and so will of course friends do.
Our aim is to cruise slow, safe and nice - better some extra days in port insted of bad weather!

Now comes the question of equipment needed. Please indicate your opinion of value the the following equipment:

1. Fixed VHF with DSC instead of the non-DSC we already have.

2. EPIRB

3. Washing machine (running on shore power) Space for it is quite easy to arrange.

4. Freezer (we can cope with the extra power demand)

5. Handheld GPS in addition to the existent fixed one

6. Handheld VHF in addition to the existent fixed one

7. Extra anchor(s)? (The yacht displaces 12 tonnes)
We have on bow a 45 lbs CQR with 56 m chain and electric windlass.
A 15 kg Bruce with 6 m chain and 56 m 'Ankarolina' is carried as kedge aft in a roller on the bathing platform.
As spares we do carry;
A): A 45 lbs CQR with 6 m chain and 60 m warp.
B) A 35 kg Fisherman with 10 m heavy chain and 50 m heavy warp.

8. Extra water. We carry 450 litres. One extra tank of approx 250 litres can be built in.

9. Watermaker.

10. Software for receiving watherfaxes on laptop (laptop and receiver is already there, but not so much metereological knowledge...)

11. The new Nasa Weatherman

12. Navtex

13. Deck fitting for emptying waste tank in harbour. Now it only can be emptied into the sea.

14. We are carrying a rigid dinghy in davits. It has a 20 years old 2 hp Evinrude, quite battered and running more on old habits then on pure reliability.
Can we stick to oars as a back-up or should we consider investing in a better outboard before leaving?

15. Roller reefing (150%) genoa, main and mizzen are all 2 years old. We will have a removable inner forestay with a storm jib.
Shall we carry an old set (20 years+) of sails (main, mizzen, genoa) as spares?

Any other comments and ideas?

We carry a liferaft and are pretty well sorted regarding other kinds of safety equipment.

 

[snowleopard]

comments on a few items:

dsc: useless at present (see my posting on scuttlebut)

epirb: only loonies go offshore without one

anchor: get a fortress, the only thing that will hold in soft mud

watermaker: a waste of (a lot of) money

weatherfax: wonderful device, wouldn't be without it

extra water, 440 litres lasted 5 of us for 2 weeks with reasonable economy

navtex: seems to be getting less useful as time goes on, v little inf aroud spain & portugal

pump out: have the socket but never used it, forget it unless doing inland waterways.

washing machine: huge water consumption, prone to rust. we found that a plastic hand-operated machine from a caravan shop met our needs, drying could be far more of a problem.

 

[hylas]

Before answering this question, to be honnest, I have to inform all readers that I'm both the autor of a French book "Tout savoir sur le Mouillage" and the designer and the manufacturer of the SPADE anchor.. But I will try to stay objectif and not talking about my products..

The CQR works well in Mud, but has many problems of setting in hard sand, weed and coral.. If your are sailing during week ends around UK this is a perfect anchor: If you are sailing round the world, there are now new technologies of anchors much more efficient (see the last article of Pf.Knox in PBO of July)
Bruce anchor is one of the anchors which are digging in, very fast and in nearly all bottoms, but compared with the new generation, the holding of the Bruce is very poor. (about 1/3 to 1/5)
Both are anchors developed more than 60 years aggo.. will you buy a car designed 60 years aggo???

Fisherman anchors have been developped during Greek and Roman period of time.. and there are now completely outdated..
I know what some conservative people will answer.. I was one year aggo, on a big motor boat together with a French journalist (Voiles Magazine) doing anchor tests.. On the boat, we had both a grapnel and a fisherman anchor and the oldsalt journalist told me that he took them to test anchoring on weedy bottoms. He says" they are the only anchors which works on weed..". Then we went to a place very weedy.. and neither the Fisherman nor the grapnel where able to dig in and hold... He was very disapointed,, then I suggested to try one of the "new technology" anchor.. He was very reluctant and answered: "if the fisherman doesn't work,, nothing will work.. " but was very surprised when the anchor digs in and hold perfectly at the first attempt..
Conclusion.. Be conservative.. Why not.. but you have to be coherent and also equip your boat with a radar or a GPS :0) from the sixties???

About anchor rode.. I'm against the all chain rode.. (again comments from conservative poeple.. :0) ) from technical point of view.. the best solution is about twice the length of the boat and Nylon rope spliced ON THE CHAIN (and not rope to rope after a U turn in the last link of chain.. )

If you want to develop some of those points, I will be very pleased to answer your questions..

fair winds and peacefull anchorages

Alain d'Hylas

7. Extra anchor(s)? (The yacht displaces 12 tonnes)
We have on bow a 45 lbs CQR with 56 m chain and electric windlass.
A 15 kg Bruce with 6 m chain and 56 m 'Ankarolina' is carried as kedge aft in a roller on the bathing platform.
As spares we do carry;
A): A 45 lbs CQR with 6 m chain and 60 m warp.
B) A 35 kg Fisherman with 10 m heavy chain and 50 m heavy warp.

 

[tcm]

Re: Bimini, and another bimini

Heat from the sun will be an issue. I saw several boats with a double bimini at 35degrees+ in s spain.

 

[Jacket]

>Bruce anchor is one of the anchors which are digging in, very fast and in nearly >all bottoms, but compared with the new generation, the holding of the Bruce is >very poor. (about 1/3 to 1/5)

Is the holding power of a Bruce really that bad? I knew it wasn't quite as good as some of the latest anchors, but 1/3?

Even so, surely the fact that the Bruce digs in so fast and reliably makes up for this? I just accepted the poorer holding power, and brought a slightly larger than average anchor.

 

[hylas]

Re: Holding of a Bruce anchor

On tests done by Practical Sailor in USA (this U.S.magazine is specialised in testing of nautical equipment and doesn't make any advertising to stay objective: Volume 25 - Number 1 - January 1999) the holding of the first anchor of the test (16.5 lbs) has been 1000 lbs, which was not the maximum limit of the anchor but only the maximum of the testing equipment.. The 22 lbs Bruce had an overall average holding of 307 lbs
The 22 lbs Claw (a copy of the Bruce) had an overall average holding of 283 lbs.

On tests conducted by the french Magazine "Voiles magazine" (n° 71 Novembre 2001) the 10 kg Bruce had only one star (Out of Four) with the mention "passable" - une tenue médiocre (mediocre holding)Suggested for those who anchor accessorily!!!..

After tests conducted by John Knox on July issue of PBO, I had the pleasure to exchange some E.mails with him, and he told me that a 5 kg anchor of the best tested model had the same holding than a 15 kg Bruce..
In sand, for the setting tests, the Bruce came on a good third position.. behind the anchor which did 1000 lbs of holding..
But you are absolutely right, if you take a Bruce anchor three time bigger! You will have the same holding..

Fair winds and peaceful anchorages

Alain D'HYLAS

 

[Stingo]

Which caravan shop did you buy your washing machine from?

Thanks

John

http://www.stingo.co.uk

 

[Gunfleet]

Re: Bimini, and another bimini

wosser double bimini?

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: Bugel Anchor

Met a friend who has been cruising the med in a Victoria 36 for the last 6 years. - absolutle swears by the german Bugel anchor. Used to use a CQR - but recons this is streets ahead.

 

[hylas]

Re: Bugel Anchor

Absolutely RIGHT.. the german Bügel is one of the best anchor.. But if you are sailing in the MED, beware of cheap copies produced either in Turkey or Tunisia.. they are made of ordinary steel and not in Hi resistance steel like the original one..

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: Bugel Anchor

I have convinced myself that I need to kick out the CRQ. choice is Bugel or Spade. From your comments - it looks like the spade has the edge in terms of tip weight. The 2 anchors look remarkably similar - what are the real differences.

My Friends in Turkey have now dichted their CQR and bought a second Bugel - they are so convinced of its superiority.

My experiance of the CQR is you think it has settled in (on hard sand) with loads of scope 6 to 1 - then pull really hard (72 horses) and it invariably comes out with a woosh. I now never even try to pull it in other than the weight of the wind, once it has taken it seems to be ok - put hav'nt really had a chance to put it too the test.

 

[hylas]

Re: Bugel Anchor

the ONLY comparison between the Bügel and the SPADE is they are both anchors..

The weight at the tip of the Bügel is 15 % of the Total anchor's weight
The weight at the tip of the SPADE is 50 % of the Total anchor's weight

the holding surface of the Bügel is flat (holding coefficient 1.1)
the holding surface of the SPADE is concave (holding coefficient 1.7)

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: Bugel Anchor

Where can I buy a Spade ??? Send a private mesage

 

[MedMan]

1. Fixed VHF with DSC instead of the non-DSC we already have.

IMHO there is little point in spending the extra at the moment.

2. EPIRB

Definitely - don't leave port without one, preferably 406MHz

3. Washing machine (running on shore power) Space for it is quite easy to arrange.

Very definitely yes, if you have room. Getting washing done is one of the most difficult problems when cruising in the Med. You will only be able to use it in harbour when you have water & electricity on tap, but that's fine.

4. Freezer (we can cope with the extra power demand)

I wonder how you can cope? As we struggle with the fridge we have never given thought to frozen food so I cannot really answer. However, I can say that frozen food is nothing like as easy to come by in much of the Med as it is back home so stocking it might be a problem!

5. Handheld GPS in addition to the existent fixed one

Absolutely yes - as an insurance back up. Buy a 12v cable and an external aerial plus the wire to connect it to your instrument system as well. That way, if your main set goes down you can use it as a direct substitute.

6. Handheld VHF in addition to the existent fixed one

Perhaps. We have one but use it rarely. I have taken it shopping on occasions to keep in touch with the First Mate on board to ask if what I have found is really what she wants!

7. Extra anchor(s)? (The yacht displaces 12 tonnes)
We have on bow a 45 lbs CQR with 56 m chain and electric windlass.
A 15 kg Bruce with 6 m chain and 56 m 'Ankarolina' is carried as kedge aft in a roller on the bathing platform.
As spares we do carry;
A): A 45 lbs CQR with 6 m chain and 60 m warp.
B) A 35 kg Fisherman with 10 m heavy chain and 50 m heavy warp.

You seem to well off here and, in any case, this question seems to have been thrashed to bits already! I carry a 20kg Bruce on 60m 10mm chain as my bower anchor on a 6 ton, 10.7m yacht.

8. Extra water. We carry 450 litres. One extra tank of approx 250 litres can be built in.

Build it in! If you like a fresh water shower after swimming, build in any others you can! You cannot carry too much water. In the Med you often have to pay for water but it is usually a fixed price irrespective of the size of your tanks. Water is often the limiting factor that sends cruising folk scurrying back to port.

9. Watermaker.

This is really linked with 8. If you can carry enough, a watermaker is less important. They are expensive to install and expensive to maintain.

10. Software for receiving watherfaxes on laptop (laptop and receiver is already there, but not so much metereological knowledge...)

I love computers and pushing buttons but I have never got on very well with weatherfax. Bracknell have now stopped the service and my guess is others will soon follow. It has been superceded by the Internet on commercial ships so the demand is no longer there.

11. The new Nasa Weatherman.

Sorry - never heard of it!

12. Navtex

Yes, yes, yes, yes YES. (sorry for shouting!) Ot is by far and away the most important means of receiving weather forecasts.

13. Deck fitting for emptying waste tank in harbour. Now it only can be emptied into the sea.

I have one but have never used it in 7 years, nor have I ever seen a pump-out facility in a place where I might have wanted one.

14. We are carrying a rigid dinghy in davits. It has a 20 years old 2 hp Evinrude, quite battered and running more on old habits then on pure reliability.
Can we stick to oars as a back-up or should we consider investing in a better outboard before leaving?

Outboards are very useful when anchored well off shore, when going ashore into a head wind and when shopping by dinghy. Rowing two crates of milk (or beer!) 200 meters into a force 5 is no fun.

15. Roller reefing (150%) genoa, main and mizzen are all 2 years old. We will have a removable inner forestay with a storm jib.
Shall we carry an old set (20 years+) of sails (main, mizzen, genoa) as spares?

We do, but have never used them except to spread out on the ground below the 'new' ones when we examine and repair them.

Any other comments and ideas?

Think about how you are going to spend long autumn and winter evenings in harbour. Most long-term yachties carry a TV and often a video and many have satellite dishes and decoders too.

Others have already mentioned sun protection - absolutely vital.

 

[hylas]

Re: Bugel Anchor

Sorry I still have to learn how to send private message.. :0(
As I do not want to advertise, I will only give you a general Idea..
When you are looking for any addresses.. Go to Goggle and type the name you are looking for.. Then you will read the Internet Web page..

Good luke

 

[hylas]

it looks always strange to me that people could still carry anchors developped by Grecs and Romans and at the same time rely on High technologies such as GPS and RADAR

MEDMAN are you really sure that the Fisherman anchor could give better results than any of the "new technology" anchors in any situation???...
I'm ready to take the challenge...
From my knowledge, the holding of the fisherman is about 1/10 of the holding of the new technology anchors. which are also by far superior for rocks and weed..

So why carrying heavy stuff???

 

[hylas]

Re: The Right anchoring rode..

Should I give my own opinion about chain??.. I perfectly know that some people will disagree.. but..

The main and ONLY advantage of the chain is that it is the only and perfect mean to avoid shaffing of the anchoring rode on agressive sea beds...

Except this point, chain has all disadvantages..:
Stored in the bow chain locker, it ad an heavy weight where it should not be
- Chain is working on the opposite it should work:
o with light wind, it give a perfect horizontal pull to the anchor and the best holding
o with moderate wind, its weight and catenary effect give a perfect shock absorbing effect.
o As the wind build up, the chain will become more straight (and this with as few as 25/30 knots of wind) then the pulling angle will increase and as a consequence, the holding of the anchor will decrease.
o When the shock absorbing effect will be necessary, the "bar tight" chain will not give it any more..

If there will be some waves entering the mooring place, the resulting shocks will be then directly transfered to the anchor, which then has more chance to break free.. and more serious, the chain is subject to high "picks" of pulling force and has very high risks of breaking..

Which lenght of chain??

During the last seven and half months, I spent 129 days moored (out of 228) into 61 different moorings. The mean water height has been 6.50 metres and the scope 5/1. The total lenght of the mooring line was about 30 meters for which 23.5 metres has been lying on the bottom (30 - 6.50 m)
Therefor, I believe a lenght of about 25 meters will be perfect.. If the water height is less, then you will be anchoring with an all chain line.. if the wind build up.. you will give more lenght but the wind will push the boat and the rope line will not shafe on the bottom..

Which length of anchoring rode??

Holding is in direct relation with the pulling lenght of the rode.. (or better, the pulling angle).
Generaly speaking, with a scope of 4/1 you will have about 55 % of the maximum holding of the anchor, with a scope of 6/1 about 70 % with a scope of 8/1: 80 % and with 10/1 about 85 % the maximum. - 100 % holding will be achieved with an horizontal rode or a "Infinite/ 1" scope.
Increasing the scope will be efficient up to 10/1 - With more than 10/1, a large increase of the scope will only give a negligeable increase of the holding... Therefor, the total lenght of the mooring line has to be adapted in relation with the conditions you are expecting to meet and should be about ten times the water height you will have to anchor in.. (I suggest 100 meters)

What to use with the chain??

Natural fibers are no longer used.. out of "Chemical" fibers, the one which has the best elasticity (shock absorbing effect) is polyamide (Nylon, Perlon, Enkalon...).. as the breaking strenght of the 10 mm chain is 5 tons, a 16 mm polyamide line will be well adapted.. (5.6 tons) Don't oversize the rope.. Yes you will increase the strenght but at the same time you will decrease the elasticity.. and "Elasticity" is the secret..

You have the choice of three strands rope or eight strands rope (also called "square line") Eight strands rope is better..

How to connect rope to Chain??

Remember: A CHAIN HAS THE RESISTANCE OF ITS WEAKEST LINK...

a) With an "eye" splice over a thimble and then a shackle on the chain..
ALWAYS use a shackle one size biger than the chain.. and secure the pin with a monel wire.
This is a perfectly safe solution but the eye splice will have difficulties to go throuh the bow roller.. will no pass the windlass gipsy and will never go through the deck pipe...

b) with a rope to chain splice..
Two ways: the wrong one and the right one..
a) NEVER splice the rope over the rope after a "U" turn into the last chain link.. you will loose about half of the rope resistance
b) Make a direct rope to chain splice. This is quite easy to do.. when you know how!!!.. Unfortunately it is not possible to make drawings on this forum, but leave me your E.mail address and I will send you free and personnally, all necessary explanations..

I can spend hours or even days talking about this subject.. giving you looonnnggg mathematical formulas, and if necessary to convince poeple, I will.. This is a complex and highly technical subject and I'm not planning to write pages about it on this forum....

Last point, I'm currently in the LAS PALMAS (Canaria) harbor covering the A.R.C. event.. I had the curiosity to check the mooring line of those boats which will cross the ocean and spend plenty of time anchored in the Caribean.. I was affraid to realise than more than half the float has a dangerous mooring line.. (Not talking about inadequate anchors) Main points are:
A too small, rusted and not secured shackle
The use of "beautifull stainless steel anchor connector" The most common one has an axe drilled to put a "security " screw on the opposite side.. although this is a wonderfull idea to avoid unscrewing of the axe.. the hole in the middle of the axe decrease the strenght. - For a 5 tons chain resistance, this connector has only three tons of resistance.. check yours!!!.
Swivels.. theory is perfect, but under loads, swivels doesn't work.. but more than that, it is important to check their breaking strenght.. ?Not only with a "on line" pull but also with a side way pull..
Connecting links.. they have a breaking strenght of only few hundreds of kilo.. NEVER use them on a mooring line.

What to use to connect the anchor and and the chain??

a shackle is perfect.. as before, always one size bigger than the chain..and secure the pin..
the simplest and perfect way is to use a toggle.. the same you use for your rigging.. and again one size bigger than the chain (12 mm for 10 mm chain)

Well.. anymore question?? :0)

Fair winds and peacefull anchorages..

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: Bugel Anchor

Hylas - go to user options at the top and you will see the mail facility OR click on my name and then send a private message

 

[MedMan]

I think you have misread my post. I said:

You seem to well off here and, in any case, this question seems to have been thrashed to bits already! I carry a 20kg Bruce on 60m 10mm chain as my bower anchor on a 6 ton, 10.7m yacht.

I do not have a fisherman on my boat nor would I ever have.

Cheers!

 

[chrisrixon]

I'm interested in why you reccomend chain + rope instead of all chain.

I have just cruised from St Malo to S Spain with chain + rope and haven't dragged once (Britany anchor). Been anchored in up to 35 knot winds.

Chris.