Eberspacher D3LC vs Chinese brand vs Planar Russian ( Latvian)

[owen-cox]

I think they should all run on kerosene.

@owen-cox have you tested the Planar heaters on kerosene Owen ?

Yes they run fine also.

 

[owen-cox]

so i can use kerosene with the Planar 4D i ordered? Can i Use diesel first before i receive any kerosene and then change from diesel to kerosene

I actually test them in my home workshop on heating oil and they work perfectly. I have noticed no difference from kerosene to diesel. In theory its burns a little cooler but not that I have noticed.

 

[owen-cox]

Agree with all of that. The Chinese ones are so cheap though you can buy entire heaters as spares so I can live without the backup. They are dangerous if poorly installed and without instructions etc or backup that is a real risk. I’m happy with them though and have run them for years.

From the ones we have ripped out and replaced the common issue is that they fail when you most want them working. If you’re happy to be fixing heaters when on your boat relaxing thats fine. Personally i like to open the app, press the green button and have it fire up and know it will run, especially as today it will go on an hour before we get to the boat so it will be warm ready for when we arrive.

 

[vyv_cox]

I've spent my working life reading academic papers that have usually been subjected to translation via Google through at least two languages. The booklet that comes with a Chinese Heater appears to have undergone the same fate.

Think of the book as 'Chinese Heaters For Dummies'. You can install the heaters from the instructions provided, but it takes a few goes to work out what they are saying. If my copy is about I'll send over some pictures.

I appreciate all that but it should not be necessary. I installed my Eberspacher without needing a book to tell me how, and I have read the detailed and impressive Planar manuals. Just more evidence that you mostly get what you pay for.

 

[Graham_Wright]

A point of importance is the arrangement of the fuel delivery system. There have been several reference to using the boat propulsion fuel tanks. There are problems with this.
The dosing pump is fussy. If the delivery line is too long, it will struggle.
If the fuel tank is low down (mine are in the keels) it will not suck adequately.
If the fuel is supplied to the dosing pump via a low pressure primary pump (as is mine), the heater can be over-dosed.
I went through several iterations of design to solve my installation (separately posted - with criticisms!).

 

[14K478]

A point of importance is the arrangement of the fuel delivery system. There have been several reference to using the boat propulsion fuel tanks. There are problems with this.
The dosing pump is fussy. If the delivery line is too long, it will struggle.
If the fuel tank is low down (mine are in the keels) it will not suck adequately.
If the fuel is supplied to the dosing pump via a low pressure primary pump (as is mine), the heater can be over-dosed.
I went through several iterations of design to solve my installation (separately posted - with criticisms!).

Very interesting. Is this all the different makes?

 

[PaulRainbow]

Very interesting. Is this all the different makes?

They all have similar requirements regarding fuel systems. Planar state:

Fuel line system should be as short as possible. Recommended maximum
length of the fuel line is 5m. Distance between fuel tank and fuel pump
should not exceed 1m and distance between fuel pump and the heater
should not exceed 4m

Max vertical distance between the pump and the heater is 1.5m

 

[14K478]

They all have similar requirements regarding fuel systems. Planar state:

Fuel line system should be as short as possible. Recommended maximum
length of the fuel line is 5m. Distance between fuel tank and fuel pump
should not exceed 1m and distance between fuel pump and the heater
should not exceed 4m

Max vertical distance between the pump and the heater is 1.5m

Thanks.

 

[UK-WOOZY]

its it ok to install the planar in the cockpit locker where the boats steel 25l diesel tank is too? thanks
(like this one)

 

[PaulRainbow]

its it ok to install the planar in the cockpit locker where the boats steel 25l diesel tank is too? thanks
(like this one)
View attachment 168129

I have fitted them in such lockers, no problem. The heater ducting gets fairly hot close to the heater, but you'll want to lag that or most of the heat will be lost in the locker, it's often best not to lag the first foot or two, or the heater can get hot. The exhaust will get very hot, again, this needs to be well lagged.

 

[UK-WOOZY]

I have fitted them in such lockers, no problem. The heater ducting gets fairly hot close to the heater, but you'll want to lag that or most of the heat will be lost in the locker, it's often best not to lag the first foot or two, or the heater can get hot. The exhaust will get very hot, again, this needs to be well lagged.

Thank you. Can i get the lagging off ebay?

I did buy the addon insulated exhaust too.




Also the duct arrived squashed courtesy of DPD

 

[Trident]

I suspect the same Vyv. The genuine Planar/Autotern is nothing like the Chines Eber copies, or genuine Eber/Webasto.

By the time you've replaced all the Chinese fittings that are made of cheese, you're nearly up to the price of a Planar.

Sorry Paul but that's just not true - a Chinese model with the addition of a genuine Webasto exhaust and a few better quality hose clips still costs less than £150 whilst the Planar is almost £500 for the 2kw and £600 for the 5kw and then on top to be useful you need another £110 for the comfort controller to do exactly what the chinese controllers do as standard.

Where Autoterm does stand out is that you can get a water heater version (like the Webasto Thermotop) for under half the cost of Webasto and they are just as good and for folks like me with a very large boat to heat their 8kw (used to be 9kw) actually produces the extra heat whilst many of the Chinese have started advertising 8kw in the body of the 5kw ...

Horses for courses and everybody is free to choose but the information should be accurate

 

[NormanS]

I actually test them in my home workshop on heating oil and they work perfectly. I have noticed no difference from kerosene to diesel. In theory its burns a little cooler but not that I have noticed.

You need to have a word with your dad about that. He's telling us that using kero with cause overheating and irreparable damage.
See post No 87.

 

[Trident]

I love the fanatics of Chinese produced heaters who say that they are potentially so cheap that it is better to buy two heaters so that you can easily replace one when it potentially goes up in flames

Except that they don't go up in flames! They do have lower quality over heat sensors and glow plugs but at pennies on the pound again the name brands.

People love to claim the Chinese versions catch fire - Owen tells me in the thread above that all the posts in the huge Facebook community that have said so have been deleted by shady forces. I can't argue because I've never seen such a post and you can't disprove a negative but I find it odd that in years and with so many people (also Reddit groups etc of thousands) no one has ever posted about a fire except fires caused by poor installation and exhaust routing meaning the exhaust ignites flammable material nearby rather than the unit burning. This of course can happen with any other brand

Bear in mind Walmart sold these for decades before they became popular here as their own brand in the most litigious country in the world

 

[Trident]

The Chinese heaters I've had in hand all had a thermo sensor and all reported it ON by an icon and the °C value to the display.

About so:
View attachment 168088

View attachment 168090 If is was defective, not fitted right or tampered with, it of course would't work

I have had, as mentioned before, two of these sensors fail and the unit would not fire up - as intended
They were replaced in 30 seconds with a £2 replacement

 

[Geoff Wode]

Sorry Paul but that's just not true - a Chinese model with the addition of a genuine Webasto exhaust and a few better quality hose clips still costs less than £150 whilst the Planar is almost £500 for the 2kw and £600 for the 5kw and then on top to be useful you need another £110 for the comfort controller to do exactly what the chinese controllers do as standard.

Where Autoterm does stand out is that you can get a water heater version (like the Webasto Thermotop) for under half the cost of Webasto and they are just as good and for folks like me with a very large boat to heat their 8kw (used to be 9kw) actually produces the extra heat whilst many of the Chinese have started advertising 8kw in the body of the 5kw ...

Horses for courses and everybody is free to choose but the information should be

I’ve found the cheapest “proper” marine exhausts are £100+vat. There’s an awful lot more to replace than a few clamps. A “decent” Chinese 2kw is more like £150 before you start replacing anything.
Disappointingly, I’ve found the savings are not as great as they once were, especially if the install is by the book, using quality parts.

 

[Trident]

I’ve found the cheapest “proper” marine exhausts are £100+vat. There’s an awful lot more to replace than a few clamps. A “decent” Chinese 2kw is more like £150 before you start replacing anything.
Disappointingly, I’ve found the savings are not as great as they once were, especially if the install is by the book, using quality parts.

Genuine Eberspacher exhaust hose is at £8.43 per M right now from the biggest UK seller! If you're talking about the through hull then £50 is about right but these are not included with most Eber or Webasto kits anyway so its always an extra cost .

 

[Geoff Wode]

Genuine Eberspacher exhaust hose is at £8.43 per M right now from the biggest UK seller! If you're talking about the through hull then £50 is about right but these are not included with most Eber or Webasto kits anyway so its always an extra cost .

Sure, but who fits just bare exhaust hose in a boat?
Assuming 2m length, you’ll want a silencer, lagging, etc, etc. That’s your £100. A skin fitting is around £35.

There’s nothing that comes with them that’s worth using, imho. My costings for installation parts for a 2kw on my boat came to just less than £500 not including the heater.

 

[vyv_cox]

You need to have a word with your dad about that. He's telling us that using kero with cause overheating and irreparable damage.
See post No 87.

Sorry, nomenclature problem. I was recalling information from some time ago about burning paraffin. We had some discussion with a technical man from Espar in USA who insisted that it would result in burning the unit.

 

[Geoff Wode]

Genuine Eberspacher exhaust hose is at £8.43 per M right now from the biggest UK seller! If you're talking about the through hull then £50 is about right but these are not included with most Eber or Webasto kits anyway so its always an extra cost .