Eberspacher D3LC vs Chinese brand vs Planar Russian ( Latvian)

[Trident]

Sure, but who fits just bare exhaust hose in a boat?
Assuming 2m length, you’ll want a silencer, lagging, etc, etc. That’s your £100. A skin fitting is around £35.

There’s nothing that comes with them that’s worth using, imho. My costings for installation parts for a 2kw on my boat came to just less than £500 not including the heater.

Well I've installed about 70 of the chinese ones and never had to come close to that in parts - and again , even if you buy a full price Eber boat kit you don't get lagging, or insulation for the ducting and you only get a single 2m length of ducting - no y pieces etc so its all that on top of your much higher base price. I normally use exhaust wrap at £15 for a 10m length which will do 2m of exhaust. The standard Chinese silencer boxes are fine and don't need changing unless you want them to be quiet in which case the same applied to brand names - you have to pay extra for the motorcycle type exhaust to be quiet - but worth noting that these make the exhaust quieter for your neighbours - the noise you hear inside is still the same.

 

[Aja]

I appreciate all that but it should not be necessary. I installed my Eberspacher without needing a book to tell me how, and I have read the detailed and impressive Planar manuals. Just more evidence that you mostly get what you pay for.

To be fair, there are grammatical and spelling errors in the 4D instruction manual I received, but nothing that would bamboozle an eight year old.

 

[Trident]

This is old information. Production is now in europe and Azerbaijan. It was quickly moved as soo. As the war broke out. I just visited the plant in Azerbaijan and they have a very comprehensive factory there including electronic board manufacturing capability. So officially they have official origin in latvia or Azerbaijan. Directors of Autoterm were born in Ukraine and of course do not support the war. They had to leave Russia or be called up to fight. They have also donated heaters to Ukraine and the distributor in Ukraine is still selling the heaters there a lot of which go towards the war effort.

That's very good to know - I did genuinely wonder at the speed that manufacturing was claimed to be moved after the Ukraine invasion but its good to hear it is all genuine and well motivated.

Having said that - given how many of the instruments on my boat are made by a subsidiary of an arms company, which I am not going to replace - I'm not sure any of us can really do much in the modern world without in some way supporting things we may find morally difficult

 

[Aja]

its it ok to install the planar in the cockpit locker where the boats steel 25l diesel tank is too? thanks
(like this one)
View attachment 168129

Installation on a 34' boat. The locker is usually full.

 

[Nauti Fox]

From the ones we have ripped out and replaced the common issue is that they fail when you most want them working. If you’re happy to be fixing heaters when on your boat relaxing thats fine. Personally i like to open the app, press the green button and have it fire up and know it will run, especially as today it will go on an hour before we get to the boat so it will be warm ready for when we arrive.

I can only speak from my own experience and I run the larger Hcalory heaters, on the boat and in the workshop, no problems yet, before that the smaller not 5kw ones and in all the years running the only hiccup was a glow plug for a few pounds.
On David Mcluckie's YouTube channel the Hcalory not 6-8kw outputs just under 5kw's, so a useful increase over the not 5kw heaters which output just under 3.5kw's.
The larger one has a 90mm outlet, the same as the bigger Webasto's.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Well I've installed about 70 of the chinese ones and never had to come close to that in parts - and again , even if you buy a full price Eber boat kit you don't get lagging, or insulation for the ducting and you only get a single 2m length of ducting - no y pieces etc so its all that on top of your much higher base price. I normally use exhaust wrap at £15 for a 10m length which will do 2m of exhaust. The standard Chinese silencer boxes are fine and don't need changing unless you want them to be quiet in which case the same applied to brand names - you have to pay extra for the motorcycle type exhaust to be quiet - but worth noting that these make the exhaust quieter for your neighbours - the noise you hear inside is still the same.

Is it not the case that the Chinese silencers are spot welded, not continually (seem) welded ?

 

[wingcommander]

Is it not the case that the Chinese silencers are spot welded, not continually (seem) welded ?

Yes on both of my Chinaspacer, the exhaust and silencer were discarded immediately. The silencer is only spot welded, may be ok for a vehicle exterior, but not a boat.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Sorry Paul but that's just not true - a Chinese model with the addition of a genuine Webasto exhaust and a few better quality hose clips still costs less than £150 whilst the Planar is almost £500 for the 2kw and £600 for the 5kw and then on top to be useful you need another £110 for the comfort controller to do exactly what the chinese controllers do as standard.

My comment was based on reports on here from people who have fitted them and swapped out the cheap and nasty fitting, exhaust and silencer.If tha's not the case, i apologise.

Planar don't make a 5kw, it's a 4kw (typo ?)

Where Autoterm does stand out is that you can get a water heater version (like the Webasto Thermotop) for under half the cost of Webasto and they are just as good and for folks like me with a very large boat to heat their 8kw (used to be 9kw) actually produces the extra heat whilst many of the Chinese have started advertising 8kw in the body of the 5kw ...

Horses for courses and everybody is free to choose but the information should be accurate

I personally don't care what people buy, heater installations are a very, very, minor part of what i do. I'm happy to fit whatever the customer want, as long as it isn't a Chinese heater with no CE certification and built with inferior parts. If i fitted one and it went tits up i would be in serious trouble.

My boat is a 45ft motorboat (or so the "badges" say, it's actually closer to 48ft). When i bought it there were two Webasto heaters (several years old. A 4kw one heats the saloon and cockpit (the cockpit vent is always closed though. The other one was a 5.5kw model that heated the lower deck, 2 cabins, 2 heads, galley and dinette. Both worked fine, but neither had a timer. It was going to cost close to half the price of a 4kw Planar (basic kit) to fit a timer so i opted for a new 4kw Planar with the comfort controller and adding an extra vent in the saloon (minimally open, as we get a lot of convective heat from the lower deck). Unless it's really cold the lower deck heater keeps the boat warm, if it's really cold, or we want to heat it up really quickly, we turn the saloon heater on. As i type this we're sitting here in T shirts @20 degrees In fairness, we'd be doing the same with any make of heater. I like having 2 heaters as it gives some redundancy, as well as working the Planar a little harder and hopefully minimising sooting.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Yes on both of my Chinaspacer, the exhaust and silencer were discarded immediately. The silencer is only spot welded, may be ok for a vehicle exterior, but not a boat.

Thanks, that was my understanding.

 

[Trident]

To be fair I don't think I've ever used the stock muffler but I always recommend the larger mufflers from SS Fabrications that cut the noise hugely and are seam welded in polished stainless - £38 each and much nicer for the neighbours

Yes 4kw - its was less a typo and more brain fart TBH - as everyone else claims 5kw

I think the Planar are great too, but for some people the cost put its out of reach whilst the chinese versions allow low cost and so (with many more units sold than any brand name has) completely safe heating

If money is not an object then clearly something with warranty and back up in the UK would make sense

 

[Elessar]

From the ones we have ripped out and replaced the common issue is that they fail when you most want them working. If you’re happy to be fixing heaters when on your boat relaxing thats fine. Personally i like to open the app, press the green button and have it fire up and know it will run, especially as today it will go on an hour before we get to the boat so it will be warm ready for when we arrive.

If you’ve been ripping them out they’ve already been giving trouble. I’ve run 5 over the years and they offer great value and I’d buy again with all the caveats above ringing in my ears.
The only heater I hated with a passion for unreliability was a genuine ebersoacher that came as a factory fit on my S37. I replaced it with a reliable Chinese one which was a simple swap.

 

[Elessar]

Yes on both of my Chinaspacer, the exhaust and silencer were discarded immediately. The silencer is only spot welded, may be ok for a vehicle exterior, but not a boat.

Not only spot welded they have a drain hole which will let CO out. Never ever use one on a boat.

 

[owen-cox]

Well I've installed about 70 of the chinese ones and never had to come close to that in parts - and again , even if you buy a full price Eber boat kit you don't get lagging, or insulation for the ducting and you only get a single 2m length of ducting - no y pieces etc so its all that on top of your much higher base price. I normally use exhaust wrap at £15 for a 10m length which will do 2m of exhaust. The standard Chinese silencer boxes are fine and don't need changing unless you want them to be quiet in which case the same applied to brand names - you have to pay extra for the motorcycle type exhaust to be quiet - but worth noting that these make the exhaust quieter for your neighbours - the noise you hear inside is still the same.

Be very wary using chinese standard exhaust silencers in boats. They are not gastight and caused the deaths of two people on the boat destiny as reported in the MAIB bulletin. They absolutely should never be used on a boat. Destiny actually had a webasto exhaust fitted but they are one of the ones the chinese copied. Autoterm standard silencers however are fat heavier metal and fully welded and gastight although we still recommend the marine exhaust system as it avoids field made joints and is already insulated.

 

[owen-cox]

If you’ve been ripping them out they’ve already been giving trouble. I’ve run 5 over the years and they offer great value and I’d buy again with all the caveats above ringing in my ears.
The only heater I hated with a passion for unreliability was a genuine ebersoacher that came as a factory fit on my S37. I replaced it with a reliable Chinese one which was a simple swap.

Yes of course they were already giving trouble. We find most people with a perfectly working heater leave it alone and just use it.

 

[fredrussell]

Be very wary using chinese standard exhaust silencers in boats. They are not gastight and caused the deaths of two people on the boat destiny as reported in the MAIB bulletin. They absolutely should never be used on a boat. Destiny actually had a webasto exhaust fitted but they are one of the ones the chinese copied.

That is a VERY misleading statement. Initially you make it sound like a Chinese exhaust caused the deaths of two people. You state “they are not gastight and caused the deaths of two people”. You only later state that it was actually a WEBASTO exhaust that killed the two people. I’m sorry, but that is really unprofessional.

 

[SaltIre]

Be very wary using chinese standard exhaust silencers in boats. They are not gastight and caused the deaths of two people on the boat destiny as reported in the MAIB bulletin. They absolutely should never be used on a boat. Destiny actually had a webasto exhaust fitted but they are one of the ones the chinese copied. Autoterm standard silencers however are fat heavier metal and fully welded and gastight although we still recommend the marine exhaust system as it avoids field made joints and is already insulated.

Might you post a link to that article? Many thanks.

 

[Graham376]

Looking back to the OP's post, we're in a similar situation. End of last winter our D3LC was packing up, lots of smoke from the exhaust and popping and banging. Taking a new gauze out with me in a couple of weeks to see if that cures it but, if not, at 20 years old with only one glow plug to replace in all those years, may as well replace it with a Planar.

What are the minimum parts required? Does the Planar fit the Eber ducting and through hull exhaust outlet? Best source of heater and parts needed in EU?

 

[Aja]

Looking back to the OP's post, we're in a similar situation. End of last winter our D3LC was packing up, lots of smoke from the exhaust and popping and banging. Taking a new gauze out with me in a couple of weeks to see if that cures it but, if not, at 20 years old with only one glow plug to replace in all those years, may as well replace it with a Planar.

What are the minimum parts required? Does the Planar fit the Eber ducting and through hull exhaust outlet? Best source of heater and parts needed in EU?

The through hull needs replacing due to different diameter of exhaust. Five minute job to replace. If I remember there are 4 fixing holes in the Eber through hull and 3 in the Planar replacement.

There are reducers available from Planar as part of their kit, although there was one I had to source from ebay.

Grace Syson at Planar was very knowledgeable and helpful.

 

[PaulRainbow]

The through hull needs replacing due to different diameter of exhaust. Five minute job to replace. If I remember there are 4 fixing holes in the Eber through hull and 3 in the Planar replacement.

The Planar uses 24mm dia exhaust, same as the Eberspacher D3LC. No need to change anything.

There are reducers available from Planar as part of their kit, although there was one I had to source from ebay.

Grace Syson at Planar was very knowledgeable and helpful.

The D3LC uses 75mm ducting, the 4kw Planar uses 90mm ducting, an adapter can be found here : Heater Ducting Adaptor 90mm to 75mm | 221000010012

 

[Graham376]

The Planar uses 24mm dia exhaust, same as the Eberspacher D3LC. No need to change anything.

The D3LC uses 75mm ducting, the 4kw Planar uses 90mm ducting, an adapter can be found here : Heater Ducting Adaptor 90mm to 75mm | 221000010012

The inherited exhaust hose on our Eber has reducers either end but can't remember whether the pipe or, the through hull & Eber are smaller or larger.

Just done a rough costing on the Planar conversion, quite a lot more expensive than when I last checked, now £850ish.