Dinghy to shore drowning

[Seajet]

Oh really. So what age did you get let loose in a boat. Ask an Olympian next time you see one and see how closely supervised their sailing was.

Fireball,

I have to say you seem to be having a bad day.

While 'Swallows & Amazons' style sailing for kids is fine in theory, this is the 21st century and we've moved on re safety kit, - and awareness of child molestation for that matter - and we usually tend not to shove little boys up chimneys either ! ( apart from 'trick or treat' when the little sods deserve it ) .

Edit;

as for a tender being just a ' manner of keeping the cash dry ' while everyone apparently should swim to and from their boat, all I can say is I'll have a half measure of whatever you're on !

 

[oleander2]

A tribute to a fine skipper

I have known the skipper who died so tragically in Studland for well over 35 years. He was a man whom I have sailed with in a variety of different craft and weather conditions. A Master Mariner, Ocean Yachtmaster and Ofshore Yachtmaster Instructor he was a man who I had the utmost confidence in. Indeed he prepared me for my own Yachtmaster Offshore Exam.

None of us will ever know what happened out there but his friends know that they have lost a remarkable friend and a true man of the sea.

 

[jonjo]

Fireball,

I have to say you seem to be having a bad day.

I reckon he is on top form today and is one of the few consistently level headed posters here, as opposed to the majority who surf around looking for an online punch-up after reading their Daily Express cover to cover.

At least this thread has highlighted the danger to yachtsmen of dinghy and shore-side accidents, something that the official champions of Health & Safety have failed to communicate as a priority over the years.

 

[Tintin]

The pig-headed implacable obstinacy of those who refuse to wear lifejackets in situations where there is more than enough evidence of the hazard and risk (as this thread highlighted yet again) I can deal with.

But please don't put children at risk as you try to prove how "right" you are, because you're not right.

Imagine the impact on your families and friends of your early death - even if you don't want to take a simple precaution for yourself, surely you owe your loved ones a little less selfishness in the choices you make.

We don't know the circumstances of this latest loss, but going in small tenders is risky, so why not, for the sake of your loved ones, mitigate that risk and get in the habit of mitigating it.

Like I wrote, I once knew a refusenik like you, he had every answer in the world as to why one shouldn't wear a lifejacket - he's dead now, drowned in a simple tender accident, going from yacht to shore, in a place he knew, in benign conditions. Had he worn a lifejacket he would be here today.

And his family still grieve his loss and miss him every day.

 

[Juan Twothree]

To those who advocate a handheld VHF or a waterproof mobile phone - is there any research that shows how strong a signal (if any) they propagate when soaking wet and 5cm above sea level?

I know the discussion has moved on since this question was asked, but anyway......

I have one of these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-B2100-Solid-Extreme-Mobile/dp/B0027I8DT8

to which I keep a floating key-ring permanently attached.

It certainly rings when floating in a bucket of water, although I didn't go so far as trying to speak

Worth noting too that it has an impressively bright LED torch built in.

 

[webcraft]

I once knew a refusenik like you, he had every answer in the world as to why one shouldn't wear a lifejacket - he's dead now, drowned in a simple tender accident, going from yacht to shore, in a place he knew, in benign conditions. Had he worn a lifejacket he would be here today.

And his family still grieve his loss and miss him every day.

The most poignant and to the point statement I have read on the subject. It shines a very bright light into all those daft wee arguments about the sanctity of personal choice.

- W

 

[jonjo]

But please don't put children at risk as you try to prove how "right" you are, because you're not right.

You own a boat, water is dangerous and kills people. So why do you continue to put your family at risk in pursuit of a leisure activity?

 

[Lakesailor]

...argued with one another like I used to do with my late father after a few beers, with no prospect of anyone changing their opinion.

Go to bed guys and wake up in less belligerent moods.

Except that one side is merely asking not to be lectured to and the other side insists on lecturing.
I've waded through this farago and it seems that the LJ supporters have no other position. There doesn't seem to be any blurring at the edges and more worryingly they cannot accept that it is down to a free choice.

There are always hypothetical cases introduced to prove the need for life jackets and the utter, utter folly of never wearing one.

That is OK. That's their opinion.

What stick's in my throat is the evangelical zeal used to try and persuade everyone they are right and their attitude should be adopted by all.

I don't know anything about the guy who died in the OP but it seems he was a very well experienced, and qualified, sailor.

An older sailor died in similar circumstances on the lake a couple of years ago.

I am not suggesting that either of them were anything other than unfortunate accidents.

However, you just don't know what is going on in someone's life. That may make them less careful than usual.......

 

[Dave100456]

What stick's in my throat is the evangelical zeal used to try and persuade everyone they are right and their attitude should be adopted by all.
...

Well said.
I have very strong views on non swimmers in boats. With or without life jackets my view is they should not be allowed near water, let alone out at sea. Where I differ from some of the contributors to this debate is that I accept that it is personal choice and do not call for legislation to outlaw it.

 

[Talulah]

Well said.
I have very strong views on non swimmers in boats. With or without life jackets my view is they should not be allowed near water, let alone out at sea.

Disabled? Elderley? Temporarily disabled i.e. Leg/Arm in plaster.

 

[GrahamM376]

Like I wrote, I once knew a refusenik like you, he had every answer in the world as to why one shouldn't wear a lifejacket - he's dead now, drowned in a simple tender accident, going from yacht to shore, in a place he knew, in benign conditions. Had he worn a lifejacket he would be here today.

I think you have to allow some leeway for conditions, type of dinghy, experience etc. Yes, in an ideal "safety first" world, maybe we should all wear life jackets all the time but, it will never happen.

We happen to live aboard in warm waters (18+ deg at the moment) and have over 80kg (with engine) of 2.9m inflatable tender used daily, often several times. There's little tide here. Although life jackets are on board 24/7, we rarely use them. However, any children and non-swimmer visitors are asked to do so - actually, children are forced to.

Wearing my other "hat", I'm fed up of having to leave my boat several time a year to assist people in overcrowded tenders with tiny outboards not powerful enough to head into wind. 4 adults + a couple of kids in a 2.3m dinghy + shopping, shipping water, all without life jackets, isn't an unusual event, even in the dark.

I think they're stupid, you no doubt think I am as well. It's down to personal choice.

 

[Talulah]

I would like to see a breakdown of how people ended up in the water in the first place. (Irrespective of LJ on/off.)
Not always possible to know of course but there could be lessons learnt. Prevention better than cure etc.

 

[GrahamM376]

I would like to see a breakdown of how people ended up in the water in the first place. (Irrespective of LJ on/off.)
Not always possible to know of course but there could be lessons learnt. Prevention better than cure etc.

Most of the cases I personally know about have been while either boarding or, fitting engine when dinghy has done a back flip - mostly with small modern lightweight (cheap) roundtail tenders.

 

[Dave100456]

Disabled? Elderley? Temporarily disabled i.e. Leg/Arm in plaster.

Interesting consideration which highlights the "grey" areas and show the inapropriate application of a blanket ban or compulsion.

All the groups you mention would experience greater difficulty in coping with unplanned immersion in water than a young, fit, able bodied person.
The choice of whether they should go afloat is one for the individual and skipper.

 

[Seajet]

Most of the cases I personally know about have been while either boarding or, fitting engine when dinghy has done a back flip - mostly with small modern lightweight (cheap) roundtail tenders.

In the case of myself and the other 3 people who went overboard at my club - all experienced people - we went in from a rigid tender with the boat on her mooring.

In my case I simply put a foot wrong - my excuse is that I was really tired, having zero sleep the night before; I stepped into the 8'6" round bilge grp tender, next thing I knew it was inverted on top of me and my lifejacket was inflated...

I feel it was lucky I'm used to dinghy sailing so wasn't too fazed by being under an inverted boat, but it could have been quite traumatic for someone not used to such things.

Of the other club members who went in ( may be factor that I was the youngest participant at 49 then, the others were all in their 60's ) one went in from his tender and was swept away by the tide, managing to grab another mooring where he was spotted from the shore - he was very lucky - and another chap went over from his rigid tender in a wide part of the harbour in January, despite having a lifejacket he reckons he was fading fast, and it was pure luck that a passing marina workboat saw him.

All of us were wearing lifejackets.

Another thing of note is that the last I heard, 3 people had been drowned in Emsworth Marina, apparently each separate accident was during icy conditions, and they were liveaboards.

 

[GrahamM376]

Interesting consideration which highlights the "grey" areas and show the inapropriate application of a blanket ban or compulsion.

All the groups you mention would experience greater difficulty in coping with unplanned immersion in water than a young, fit, able bodied person.
The choice of whether they should go afloat is one for the individual and skipper.

Being in my 60's I find the term "elderly" quite amusing. I know many in their 70's still sailing single handed including Atlantic crossings. In some cases they're a lot fitter than some 30 years younger.

 

[Seajet]

Being in my 60's I find the term "elderly" quite amusing. I know many in their 70's still sailing single handed including Atlantic crossings. In some cases they're a lot fitter than some 30 years younger.

My father is 88, and probably fitter than me at 50...a few years ago he crewed my Osprey dinghy, waving to a fellow WWII veteran chum as he nonchalantly lay back in the trapeze harness; though said chum ( in his Kingfisher 20+ ) yelled " you silly sod, you'll be on crutches tomorrow ! ". He wasn't.

 

[alant]

Oh mr maturity.

Tell u what - just do us a favour and put me on ignore - you obviously lack the intelligence to make a coherent argument.

Oooh!

Its "us" now is it?
That collective term is normally used when you have need for your security blanket.

By the way, the only coherant argument in your posting on this topic, has been your complete ignorance of any common sense. You may be happy to risk your own life, but don't encourage others to do the same with theirs.

 

[Talulah]

Another thing of note is that the last I heard, 3 people had been drowned in Emsworth Marina, apparently each separate accident was during icy conditions, and they were liveaboards.

A few years ago I very nearly came a cropper in Deacons Boat Yard.
Winter. First thing in the morning, got up and slipped head over heals not noticing that a pool of water had collected on the aft deck in the corner and had frozen solid.

 

[Seajet]

Going back to the tragedy at Studland...

A few years ago we were anchored there in a really strong blow, easily F9 probably more; the gusts were 'katabatic' style, seemingly blowing downwards rather than horizontally, we would have liked to be closer in but the place was quite crowded* with people sheltering.

* Yes, crowded, all of 50 or so boats while the career conservationists try to claim 300 boats at a time !

It was nasty enough that self and then wife stood anchor watches all night...in the middle of this a chap appeared drifting towards us in an inflatable.

He tried starting the engine now and again but obviously no joy; I can't remember if he had any oars, but he certainly didn't try rowing.

Behind us downwind there was a vivid line of white water where shelter ended and the strong tides kicked up a nasty chop, followed by big seas in the open water all the way to the Needles.

The chap in the dinghy just seemed resigned, I'll never forget the strange look of calm as he folded his arms, standing up in the boat as he went past.

I cursed and started scampering around getting the engine ready and anchor up, but fortunately a boat downwind of us spotted and rescued him.

A very odd experience, he had no chance in the rough stuff to leeward, seemed to realise and accept this...I'd suggest in that situation it would be an idea to jump in and swim to a yacht & forget the dinghy, but that's obviously not a decision to take lightly.

When a daft teenager with the boat anchored at Studland we returned from a walk to find our dinghy had been stolen; I swam out into the dark, rather aware I had one chance of getting to the boat.

Obviously I made it, but the thought of how stupid I was still makes me cringe...