Dinghy to shore drowning

[Talulah]

I believe I addressed the question to fireball, are you his PR ?

Yes you did. And I responded. It's open fora.
No different to your posting.

Dear God that's an annoying website, form over function at it's very worst!

When the question is about "What Head Torch?"

Fireball can still respond. My response has no effect on that.

 

[DogWatch]

Oh no!

Oh no, what a bunch of risk averse wet girl's blouses.

Why are you mocking, fireball is discussing his personal opinions and while I disagree in many regards I respect his position. You are turning this thread into a similar mocking life jacket wearers as one similar last year. How would you feel if someone desperate to fit in to a new hobby they chose to join drowned for fear of people like you mocking from the sailing club pontoon.

And, as for you picture, I nearly lost a good friend a few years ago who bounced out of the rib he was in and was knocked unconscious by the propeller. It was only because they were in scuba gear that he had positive buoyancy and was able to be recovered quickly by the rest of the crew. Now, could your wife drag your helpless body back into the dinghy? Really? You should try it, I would be amazed if she could, especially alone in a chop..

 

[DogWatch]

No different to your posting.

When the question is about "What Head Torch?"

truly mental posting.

 

[Croak]

When I am swimming from my tender do I need to wear my life jacket?

 

[gunman]

Because it is getting on and off the dinghy where accidents happen. If you are getting on/off a stable platform there is inherently less risk.



Part of the initial risk assessment maybe?

but I think that was the point, unless you have a larger tender because of your larger craft, then the tender is the unstable bit. My boat is only 7m but I have never considered it the unstable bit of the equation.

 

[fireball]

This thread is about taking sensible precautions in a dinghy, what does the size of your boat have to do with it?

Er - size & stability of tender - or doesn't that count?

Like WB I have saved a man from the river after his dinghy sank under him. Luckily I heard his shouts from the boatyard and was able to race over and pluck him out of the water, there go but for the grace...

He was as I recall wearing a buoyancy aid and before he explained his situation I had thought he was a canoeist as they were the only ones back then who would be seen in such gay safety kit. He didn't however berate me for not allowing Darwinism to rule, in fact, he was rather scared and rather grateful someone heard him, the current was enough to prevent him getting to the shore only 50yds from his position.

1) My tender has two buoyancy compartments - it is highly unlikely to sink under me (I recognise that there is a very tiny risk of it doing so )
2) In a river ... trying to swim against the current?
Initial shock will see you try and get back to where you came from - I know, I did this last thursday - successfully - however, the rational ones will work out that you're often best to swim perpendicular to the current ... once you've got to a place of refuge you can then work out how to get back !

And to Fireball, if the weather changes while you are ashore how do you make an informed decision based on conditions if your jackets are on board the boat? I also find carting life jackets around the shops a PITA, but a simple backpack helps. Not wearing something you can and already own because there is a small chance it may not help save you as no one will see you etc. is a bit mad, as the longer you survive the more chance of attracting attention no?

Like Talulah says - it's all part of the initial risk assessment ...
and if I'm caught out - then it's highly likely that it would be too risky with lifejackets too .. I'd rather be onshore with no lifejacket than thinking it'll save my life and risk it ...
Have you never decided it's not worth launching the tender because of the conditions? I know I have on at least one occasion.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I'm with the always-in-the-dinghy crowd. Why? An accident is - by definition - an unforeseen event (if it were foreseen, we'd avoid it). Accidents can happen even in the most benign circumstances. Example: dinghy swamped by close pass from an out-of-control powerboat even though it's flat calm, no tide, warm and sunny.

I'd rather get out at the other end saying "Glad I didn't need my lifejacket" than find myself up to the earlobes saying "Wish I worn my lifejacket."

 

[stevebrassett]

Do people really relax and become complacent in their tender? Am I the only one who feels more safe on a boat 22ft or bigger than I do in an 8ft tender?

No you're not the only one. I usually wear my LJ in the tender, then take it off when I'm on my 23 footer. I should qualify this by saying I do most of my sailing in a sheltered estuary - I normally wear an LJ if I go out to sea.

 

[fireball]

Oh no, what a bunch of risk averse wet girl's blouses.

Somewhat different considering what they are on!

I nearly lost a good friend a few years ago who bounced out of the rib he was in and was knocked unconscious by the propeller. It was only because they were in scuba gear that he had positive buoyancy and was able to be recovered quickly by the rest of the crew. Now, could your wife drag your helpless body back into the dinghy? Really? You should try it, I would be amazed if she could, especially alone in a chop..

I'm glad you didn't loose your friend - you mention scuba gear and Rib - this indicates to me that it isn't what most ppl regard as a tender (unless you own a megayacht!) - To get bounced out I would've thought you have to be doing a reasonable speed into a chop ... I guess your mate was sat on a sponson? not the best place to sit on a rib at speed .. especially in a chop or significant wake ...

 

[DogWatch]

Somewhat different considering what they are on!



I'm glad you didn't loose your friend - you mention scuba gear and Rib - this indicates to me that it isn't what most ppl regard as a tender (unless you own a megayacht!) - To get bounced out I would've thought you have to be doing a reasonable speed into a chop ... I guess your mate was sat on a sponson? not the best place to sit on a rib at speed .. especially in a chop or significant wake ...

I agree, it wasn't the rib I was attempting to make the point about, but how easy falling off a small boat can turn into catastrophe when you add whirly metal, currents, other boats etc.

He was never quite the same, he turned from a big biker dive-bore rolleyes into a rather quiet reserved type, he since moved to Portsmouth so I don't know if things improved.

The odd thing was, I was at a girls house in Caldy trying to get my end away, she was way out of my league... Anyhow, part of the evenings cabaret was watching the RAF helicopter landing on the beach opposite their drawing room (very very expensive property) and wondering what was going on. Obviously I had no idea it was rushing my friend to intensive care, he was as described by people on the boat with him, a bit of a mess. I never did get my wicked way.

 

[srp]

I never did get my wicked way.

Ah, but if you'd been wearing a lifejacket, maybe, just maybe....

 

[fireball]

but how easy falling off a small boat can turn into catastrophe when you add whirly metal, currents, other boats etc.

Then perhaps we'd be better of with lifelines to ensure we don't fall out? No?

He was never quite the same, he turned from a big biker dive-bore rolleyes into a rather quiet reserved type, he since moved to Portsmouth so I don't know if things improved.

The odd thing was, I was at a girls house in Caldy trying to get my end away, she was way out of my league... Anyhow, part of the evenings cabaret was watching the RAF helicopter landing on the beach opposite their drawing room (very very expensive property) and wondering what was going on. Obviously I had no idea it was rushing my friend to intensive care, he was as described by people on the boat with him, a bit of a mess. I never did get my wicked way.

Life is never predictable ... and accidents do happen - often when we (or a third party) become complacent and stop looking out for the risks ..

 

[DogWatch]

Life is never predictable ... and accidents do happen - often when we (or a third party) become complacent and stop looking out for the risks ..

Agreed, but your decision to therefore do nothing is what I think perplexes most people. A life jacket may not help in some situations so I wont wear one at all. It's not joined up and why I believe you are fielding so much confusion.

 

[fireball]

Agreed, but your decision to therefore do nothing is what I think perplexes most people. A life jacket may not help in some situations so I wont wear one at all. It's not joined up and why I believe you are fielding so much confusion.

Why does everyone assume that because I've said I don't normally wear a lifejacket that I then NEVER wear a lifejacket? I do wear a lifejacket ... actually I'm probably in the "I've worn a floatation device more often than not" category ... because I always wear a buoyancy aid when dinghy racing ... I just don't always wear either a buoyancy aid or lifejacket in the tender or onboard the big boat - not that I don't ... just that I don't always ...

 

[Ben Dockrell 22]

So, we (at least I am) are converted. We use our preferred buoyancy device when in the dinghy.
If I buy one of these waterproof phones, which number am I going to have on fast-dial? The pub I have just left will be full of useful types maybe, and it is nearby, the CG is (soon to be) centralised somewhere and will have to call a man-in-a-van. The clubhouse -anyone there?
OK if you're part of a group/crew, but what if you're on your own?
Mini flares http://www.safety-marine.co.uk/distress-flares/p3205s11/pains-wessex-mini-flare-kit.htm are a possibility, is there anything better around? These and other mini flares seem to need to be assemled onto a launcher before use, which may not be easy under some circumstances. Wonder if the old fashioned mini flares are still available anywhere?

Another thought is the keyring type lasers, you can get white light lasers, these could point into the air. Or imagine being able to direct a laser to the shore or quay where people could be seen or against windows.


I know perhaps vandals might try playing with them but not many would understand three short and three long pulses?


Also by multiplying the number of laser units inside a host box of ie 3 or 4 inchs you can create a larger beam.

 

[alant]

Maybe they had run out of PAYG and didn't realise 999 was for free.

Any 'sensible' person, would have at least tried to call 999.
Doubt all would have had defunct PAYG!

 

[alant]

Do you know the age of the kids and their abilities?
Do you know the tender make/model - and what it's stability is like?
Do you know the water where it is used?

Don't base your judgement on scant facts.

Whatever "scant" judgement is being used, any water will drown you, so stop being so bloody obtuse FFS!

The so called 'sensible' postings on this topic, with people considering that they will not drown if (a) not in scottish waters, (b) in an estuary (b) in Chichester Harbour or environs, makes me doubt Darwin!

 

[fireball]

Whatever "scant" judgement is being used, any water will drown you, so stop being so bloody obtuse FFS!

The so called 'sensible' postings on this topic, with people considering that they will not drown if (a) not in scottish waters, (b) in an estuary (b) in Chichester Harbour or environs, makes me doubt Darwin!

Don't get in the bath then.

 

[Tintin]

Not wishing to cause offence but being devils advocate.
The wearing of the lifejacket would not have guaranteed such an outcome. It may have increased his chances or it may have made recovery of the body easier.
Others factors come into play. i.e. Crotch straps. Without which he may have slipped out of his LJ as his body became limp to the cold. etc etc

I heard that particular argument from him some 6 months before he drowned as a reason why he was justified in never wearing an LJ. And many more similar comments.

Like I wrote, I wonder how many of those "reasons" went through his head before he died.

 

[Tintin]

Obviously you and your offspring are able to breathe water. Sorry, how silly of me - didn't realise you wwere a mutant.

No, really, it beggars belief that you can ask such a stupid, stupid question.

- W

Webby, it ain't worth the typing.

It reminds me of the attitude to smoking that used to prevail - it was OK in the house, near kids, made you live longer, helped childbirth 'cos the kids were smaller. Thankfully now we (mostly) know better although there are always a few refuseniks who think it is OK to smoke with kids in the car.

LJ's is similar - I am sure tht in 20 years time people will look back at this thread ('cos it will still be around somewhere) and think how quaint it was that people came up with such stupid nonsense in defence of not wearing an LJ.

TBH I think that natural selection should be allowed to take place with some, because then they won't trot out such nonsense.

It's the families they leave behind however that makes me sad. So very selfish and so life changing with huge repercussions for all concerned.

I am not in favour of legislation on LJ's, but I think that those who don't wear them in tenders should be scorned publicly and treated like social lepers.

And as you pointed out, to have a sailing school principle arguing against LJ's beggars belief.

Ho hum - what was it they said about old bold sailors?