Dinghy Storage and Launch facilities on the Crouch

[DanTribe]

I totally agree with these comments, but your previous post did come over as unecessarily harsh.
The best yacht / sailing clubs do rely on voluntary self help but it shouldn't be seen as an onerous chore.

 

[Tranona]

Picking on children is really mean. That 7 year old in an Oppie will be a much better sailor than an adult who's never set foot in a sailing dinghy.

Sweeping generalisation. The 7 year old will have spent the first few goes under the watchful eye of a safety boat - well at least they do in our club.

I first sailed a dinghy at the age of 42 after 15 years of sailing yachts and had absolutely no problem adapting and quickly learning how to make it go where I wanted it to without falling over. Learning to race an Osprey was a bit more challenging, but the OP is talking about "pottering"

This idea that sailing dinghies is both difficult and the only way to learn about sailing is just nonsense and the suggestion that an experienced adult needs a year under supervision before being allowed out on their own just bizarre.

 

[PeterWright]

Hi Lee,

If you really want something as big as a Wayfarer and plan to sail single handed, launch and recovery up a slipway is unlikely to be successful unless you press gang others into helping. I very much doubt it's possible to haul even an Enterprise up the Creeksea club's slip and certainly not Burnham sailing club's slip by yourself unless you have trained for Strongest Man competitions.

As others have suggested, an Enterprise is a better bet for single handing, although that class has a reputation for excessive weather helm if you don't keep them fairly flat. In either case a suit of cruising sails would be essential. These have about 80 % of the area of the standard racing rig and a longer tiller would help.

To avoid the struggle of launch / recovery with a Wayfarer, you might consider keeping her on one of the inshore moorings at Priors yard - they would lift her in at the beginning of the season and out at the end and you would need a tender. You would also need to antifoul her and fit a cover to keep the summer rain out.

However, I think a smaller dinghy than a. Wayfarer is the best bet for your intended use.

Having raced Enterprises and Hornets in my youth then yachts while I was a dinghy instructor, I'm now cruising yachts in my dotage. I just don't understand the yachts vs dinghies antagonism I read here. Sailing is sailing with most skills transferable between different sizes of boat. I've sailed a fair bit on sailing barges in the past, mostly as mate and was a watch officer on the 300 ton topsail schooner Malcolm Miller, so I've tried a fair range of different sizes. In dinghies things happen faster and you need to learn how to right a capsized boat. Other than that, in my view, your yacht sailing skills should be enough to go pottering on the Crouch and Roach.

Peter.

 

[searocket]

We sailed our Wayfarer a lot on the river Crouch, it's a fabulous area. Lots of places to explore and an ideal boat. It's a tidal river and a good chop can quickly build up if the breeze freshens, the Wayfarer takes it all in it's stride.
As well as Creeksea SC check out Burnham Yacht Harbour and Fambridge Marina for launching / storage.
There are simple mods to the trailer to make launch/recovery easy if you are single handing.
There is a Wayfarer Facebook page or the UK Wayfarer Assiciation for more info.

 

[Dee Bee]

Perhaps my comments seemed harsh. But club membership is more than just dumping your boat in a dinghy park. You can actually get a lot from joining a good proactive club, There is a social activity where one can make lots of friend from many aspects of life that one might never have known. Working to run the club can become extremely rewarding.
I get more fun out of doing club jobs than I ever do sailing now I am older.
One will become a better sailor just by talking boats even without getting on the water. Finding out how to rig the boat properly can make such a difference. Sailing in company- not necessarily racing, can be fun. I found long ago that I sail in a fantastic river but I rarely go sailing just to sail up & down it. That becomes boring. But sailing with another boat makes all the difference. Even if it just means learning how to point higher or run down wind better
You really have to have a different perspective on how you look at club membership. To some extent that can go for any sort of club and any sort of hobby.

 

[Dee Bee]

I do not think that the rather snotty response about your needs from a sailing club are fair. Dinghy clubs always have a core of members who love the club and want to do lots for it ; a majority of members who do their duties and may or may not do a bit more and members who turn up and sail and go home. But best of all are the members who pay their fees never or hardly ever sail and susidise the rest. I think a good rule of thumb on any club is about 30% of members are active in the club. Frankly if there are responses to new members like the one above, Why would anyone want to be a member of a club with members like that.?

 

[PeterWright]

We sailed our Wayfarer a lot on the river Crouch, it's a fabulous area. Lots of places to explore and an ideal boat. It's a tidal river and a good chop can quickly build up if the breeze freshens, the Wayfarer takes it all in it's stride.
As well as Creeksea SC check out Burnham Yacht Harbour and Fambridge Marina for launching / storage.
There are simple mods to the trailer to make launch/recovery easy if you are single handing.
There is a Wayfarer Facebook page or the UK Wayfarer Assiciation for more info.

I would be interested to hear what mods to a trailer make it possible to haul a Wayfarer up a slipway single handed.

 

[Brass0Lee]

Hi Lee,

If you really want something as big as a Wayfarer and plan to sail single handed, launch and recovery up a slipway is unlikely to be successful unless you press gang others into helping. I very much doubt it's possible to haul even an Enterprise up the Creeksea club's slip and certainly not Burnham sailing club's slip by yourself unless you have trained for Strongest Man competitions.

As others have suggested, an Enterprise is a better bet for single handing, although that class has a reputation for excessive weather helm if you don't keep them fairly flat. In either case a suit of cruising sails would be essential. These have about 80 % of the area of the standard racing rig and a longer tiller would help.

To avoid the struggle of launch / recovery with a Wayfarer, you might consider keeping her on one of the inshore moorings at Priors yard - they would lift her in at the beginning of the season and out at the end and you would need a tender. You would also need to antifoul her and fit a cover to keep the summer rain out.

However, I think a smaller dinghy than a. Wayfarer is the best bet for your intended use.

Having raced Enterprises and Hornets in my youth then yachts while I was a dinghy instructor, I'm now cruising yachts in my dotage. I just don't understand the yachts vs dinghies antagonism I read here. Sailing is sailing with most skills transferable between different sizes of boat. I've sailed a fair bit on sailing barges in the past, mostly as mate and was a watch officer on the 300 ton topsail schooner Malcolm Miller, so I've tried a fair range of different sizes. In dinghies things happen faster and you need to learn how to right a capsized boat. Other than that, in my view, your yacht sailing skills should be enough to go pottering on the Crouch and Roach.

Peter.

Hi Peter,

Thanks again for your thoughtful response. Your insights have been invaluable.

I completely agree with your assessment of the challenges of single-handedly launching and recovering a Wayfarer. The option of keeping it on a swing mooring is definitely something I'll explore further.

An Enterprise seems like a more suitable choice for my needs, and I'll do some more research into the class.

While I'm excited to start dinghy sailing, I'm also aware of the importance of safety and experience. I'll definitely seek out instruction and practice before venturing out alone.

Thank you once again for your advice.

Best regards,Lee

 

[Daydream believer]

I do not think that the rather snotty response about your needs from a sailing club are fair. Dinghy clubs always have a core of members who love the club and want to do lots for it ; a majority of members who do their duties and may or may not do a bit more and members who turn up and sail and go home. But best of all are the members who pay their fees never or hardly ever sail and susidise the rest. I think a good rule of thumb on any club is about 30% of members are active in the club. Frankly if there are responses to new members like the one above, Why would anyone want to be a member of a club with members like that.?

OK so a person turns up for an interview to join a club & says. I do not want to join in with club activities I am not interested in what you lot do. I do not want to help do any work to maintain the club.I am not interested in the social aspects. I do not want to do any racing etc. I MAY well expect the services of your safety boat when I get in trouble. I just want to dump my boat in the dinghy park, I will not be cutting the grass around my boat- someone else can. I will use the facilities & b..ger off when I want.
How would you feel about having him/her as a member?

 

[Puffin10032]

An Enterprise seems like a more suitable choice for my needs, and I'll do some more research into the class.

They're rather "rolley" downwind though. You might want to look at something a bit better mannered for relaxed cruising. The Miracle has been mentioned. They're lovely little boats. Hull weight about 60KG so lighter than an Enterprise. Do remember though that lighter boats are generally less stable than heavier ones (read Ian Proctor's Dinghies For Sailing if you want to understand why) and that they respond far more quickly to gusts and lulls than heavier boats do.

 

[PeterWright]

They're rather "rolley" downwind though. You might want to look at something a bit better mannered for relaxed cruising. The Miracle has been mentioned. They're lovely little boats. Hull weight about 60KG so lighter than an Enterprise. Do remember though that lighter boats are generally less stable than heavier ones (read Ian Proctor's Dinghies For Sailing if you want to understand why) and that they respond far more quickly to gusts and lulls than heavier boats do.

I never found Enterprises to be particularly rolly downwind, but then I also had experience of our school's Fireflies - they could roll with a vengeance so that even dead downwind you kept the centreplate half down in all but the lightest airs. A Wayfarer is, basically, a scaled up Enterprise with very similar lines but the scaling up includes weight.

Peter.

 

[Dee Bee]

OK so a person turns up for an interview to join a club & says. I do not want to join in with club activities I am not interested in what you lot do. I do not want to help do any work to maintain the club.I am not interested in the social aspects. I do not want to do any racing etc. I MAY well expect the services of your safety boat when I get in trouble. I just want to dump my boat in the dinghy park, I will not be cutting the grass around my boat- someone else can. I will use the facilities & b..ger off when I want.
How would you feel about having him/her as a member?

I feel neutral. If they pay their money and understand they have to do a duty, who cares if they socialise.( not doind duties is a heinous offe ce) If the club is welcoming and inclusive, then they would probably end up doing more but I would still expect a handful of members to be doing the lions share of the work. Possibly they bitch about it but they do it because they enjoy it.
Our club has a chat with prospective members not an interview. I hate dinghy clubs that act like they are some gentlemans club.

 

[Puffin10032]

A Wayfarer is, basically, a scaled up Enterprise with very similar lines but the scaling up includes weight.

Peter.

No it isn't. Jack Holt designed the Enterprise specifically to roll tack very easily (I believe that at the time he was doing most of his sailing on a small fluky lake) This requires a reduction in initial stability. If you think otherwise then try roll tacking a GP14. The Wayfarer on the other hand has lots of initial stability (it's great weight helps too of course). It can be roll tacked but you 'll need to put some effort into it even if Mike Mac makes it look effortless in his tutorial videos. Fireflies tack on a 6d which is probably why they're still a popular choice for team racing.

A bit of a diversion: when I started sailing in the late 60s the received wisdom was to pull the board all the way up on the run. This was never an issue on our Heron but one day we had an inter-club competition with another local club on their water which was right in the middle of town surrounded by tall buildings. You can imagine how cut-up and fluky the wind was. I can't recall how it happened but we'd been lent an old narrow Merlin Rocket for the event. It was fairly windy and going down the runs with the board up was err challenging. I have no idea how we got away without capsizing.

 

[dunedin]

…. Jack Holt designed the Enterprise specifically to roll tack very easily (I believe that at the time he was doing most of his sailing on a small fluky lake) ……

That’s interesting, as I had never heard that mentioned before. Do you have a source / reference for this?

The Enterprise certainly roll tacks very well - to the extent that until the rules were changed, it regularly came out of the tack faster than it went in. Hence being forced to tack was an advantage, and we took to extremes with two boats cross tacking each other would disappear into the distance in flat waters.

However, had they thought of roll tacks back in 1956 when the Enterprise was designed?
I wasn’t around then, but it still seemed a fairly new innovation - and hence controversial to the old hands in the fleet - when I moved into Enterprises in the mid 1970s. If had been around for 20 years by then I wonder why was so controversial then?

 

[John_Silver]

Re @Brass0Lee ’s Q about the suitability of the Wayfarer for some estuary sailing….



This chap locked in to Sovereign Harbour behind us, on Thursday evening.



Set up a neat boom tent and had a couple of night’s aboard. Before heading west, around Beachy Head, today.

The extra length and weight (over an Ent or a Miracle) may be a minus ashore. But they do open up other options afloat….As the redoubtable Dye’s have demonstrated.

EDIT: If considering a Wayfarer on a mooring, could go one step bigger into Hawk / Devon Yawl territory (arguably more able to fend for themselves, moored out, than a Wayfarer)…..or add a lid with a Shrimper style pocket cruiser…..

 

[PeterWright]

No it isn't. Jack Holt designed the Enterprise specifically to roll tack very easily (I believe that at the time he was doing most of his sailing on a small fluky lake) This requires a reduction in initial stability. If you think otherwise then try roll tacking a GP14. The Wayfarer on the other hand has lots of initial stability (it's great weight helps too of course). It can be roll tacked but you 'll need to put some effort into it even if Mike Mac makes it look effortless in his tutorial videos. Fireflies tack on a 6d which is probably why they're still a popular choice for team racing.

A bit of a diversion: when I started sailing in the late 60s the received wisdom was to pull the board all the way up on the run. This was never an issue on our Heron but one day we had an inter-club competition with another local club on their water which was right in the middle of town surrounded by tall buildings. You can imagine how cut-up and fluky the wind was. I can't recall how it happened but we'd been lent an old narrow Merlin Rocket for the event. It was fairly windy and going down the runs with the board up was err challenging. I have no idea how we got away without capsizing.

I agree that Enterprises are easy to roll tack, we found that shortly after my father took delivery of ours in 1958 (sail no. 2234) and as you say, a Wayfarer can also be roll tacked, but it takes more work because of the considerably greater weight. Look at the lines of the two boats, both double chined with the chines following a very similar line. I will bet that if you lofted out an Enterprise's lines scaled up to 16 foot, you would have something very much like a Wayfarer. In contrast, the GP14 is a single chine boat with much greater form stability and so nigh impossible to roll tack.
Peter.

 

[Puffin10032]

That’s interesting, as I had never heard that mentioned before. Do you have a source / reference for this?

The Enterprise certainly roll tacks very well - to the extent that until the rules were changed, it regularly came out of the tack faster than it went in. Hence being forced to tack was an advantage, and we took to extremes with two boats cross tacking each other would disappear into the distance in flat waters.

However, had they thought of roll tacks back in 1956 when the Enterprise was designed?
I wasn’t around then, but it still seemed a fairly new innovation - and hence controversial to the old hands in the fleet - when I moved into Enterprises in the mid 1970s. If had been around for 20 years by then I wonder why was so controversial then?

I'll hold my hand up and say that I would probably struggle to the actual post but it would have been by respected journalist and dinghy historian David "Dougal" Henshall either on the Y&Y web site, the CVRDA forum or possibly both. He did an awful lot of research into Jack Holt's most popular designs as part of series to commemorate Jack's 100th birthday (so that would be 2012) including talking to Jack's surviving relatives. The article/post was full of such anecdotes. For instance Jack designed the Streaker because with age he was finding it harder to pull his Solo up the slip. David also did a lot of research on the origins of the Mirror dinghy and you can find his talk about that on YouTube.

I don't know when roll tacking was discovered (if that's the right word). I also remember that in the 1970s there were questions about whether or not it was within the rules. Perhaps it was initially seen as an "inland" technique and with many classes holding their nationals on the sea wasn't seen as being as an important issue. That's wild speculation on my part though.

 

[Puffin10032]

I agree that Enterprises are easy to roll tack, we found that shortly after my father took delivery of ours in 1958 (sail no. 2234) and as you say, a Wayfarer can also be roll tacked, but it takes more work because of the considerably greater weight. Look at the lines of the two boats, both double chined with the chines following a very similar line. I will bet that if you lofted out an Enterprise's lines scaled up to 16 foot, you would have something very much like a Wayfarer. In contrast, the GP14 is a single chine boat with much greater form stability and so nigh impossible to roll tack.
Peter.

I'm not convinced that the lines are as similar as you think. There's an awful lot you can do with the profiles of a double-chined hull to change it's handling characteristics. You'd need to get the plans for both boats and compare them to be able to make a definitive statement that the Wayfarer is a scaled-up Enterprise. Interestingly Jack Holt did design a dinghy which was touted as a scaled-up Enterprise - the Lazy E which was a 16 foot single trapeze boat. I have no idea if he simply scaled the Enterprise up or whether some yachting journalist thought "it's double-chined and by Jack Holt so it must be ...".

 

[Brass0Lee]

Re @Brass0Lee ’s Q about the suitability of the Wayfarer for some estuary sailing….

View attachment 182982

This chap locked in to Sovereign Harbour behind us, on Thursday evening.

View attachment 182983

Set up a neat boom tent and had a couple of night’s aboard. Before heading west, around Beachy Head, today.

The extra length and weight (over an Ent or a Miracle) may be a minus ashore. But they do open up other options afloat….As the redoubtable Dye’s have demonstrated.

EDIT: If considering a Wayfarer on a mooring, could go one step bigger into Hawk / Devon Yawl territory (arguably more able to fend for themselves, moored out, than a Wayfarer)…..or add a lid with a Shrimper style pocket cruiser…..

I'm very grateful for your time and insights. The swing mooring idea is definitely worth exploring. I'll do some more research on larger boats as well.

The chap in the photos is on to something.. love it!

 

[peter.m]

I do not think that the rather snotty response about your needs from a sailing club are fair. Dinghy clubs always have a core of members who love the club and want to do lots for it ; a majority of members who do their duties and may or may not do a bit more and members who turn up and sail and go home. But best of all are the members who pay their fees never or hardly ever sail and susidise the rest. I think a good rule of thumb on any club is about 30% of members are active in the club. Frankly if there are responses to new members like the one above, Why would anyone want to be a member of a club with members like that.?

My own club probably does a little better than the 30% active. The issue is often that prospective members come along saying that they will be active, even teach others, then use our limited yard space for cheap storage. It happens all to often, particualy with easily transportable dinghys. We are a little further up the crouch than the other clubs mentioned. We also do a lot more than just dinghys. We welcome new members who are active and will add to the club family, that said club activities be be a bit adhoc and nobody has to join in if they have no desire to. Once we have ensured, basic sailing skils we have a few club boats that can be used for a small contribution. By all means PM me.