Delta to Rocna - is it worth it - three specific questions

[coopec]

I'm still reading the comments but came across this article. I have yet to satisfy myself the tests were legitimate and impartial. Reading this article may help ULTIMATE HOLDING POWER

I'd like to know the weight of the anchors tested below after reading Vyv Cox's article How to choose the right anchor as he pointed out that setting was a problem with some anchor designs but only light-weight versions.

Anchoring Equipment :: Rocna Next Generation Anchors

 

[coopec]

I've only read five pages of the thread so far so I suppose I should not be commenting but when I read thread comments like the following I have to take notice.

I'm now leaning toward the Manson Supreme mostly because the Rocna seems to be overpriced
Rocna 55lb $1125
Manson Supreme 60lb $799

Rocna vs Manson Supreme Anchors

 

[RichardS]

I've only read five pages of the thread so far so I suppose I should not be commenting but when I read thread comments like the following I have to take notice.

I'm now leaning toward the Manson Supreme mostly because the Rocna seems to be overpriced
Rocna 55lb $1125
Manson Supreme 60lb $799

Rocna vs Manson Supreme Anchors
View attachment 84759

I suspect that the observation that the Rocna is "better constructed and is built more robustly" was made before the Chinese doo-doo hit the Rocna fan.

Richard

 

[dunedin]

WOW. Old thread warning, as this was a question I posed in 2015!

Having been resurrected, I might as well say what happened. So after reading various inputs, and the bad experience with the Delta on the new boat vs the Rocna on my previous boat, I bit the bullet and bought a 20kg Rocna. As was cruising, I had to leave the almost new Delta behind and was given about £25 trade in for it.

However, I have never regretted that decision. Instantly was back to the anchor setting experience I was familiar with, and after a LOT of use over the following 4+ seasons am very happy with the change.

So to answer my own questions 4+ years later ....

So wondering about whether it would be worth the substantial investment to swap a near new Delta for another Rocna. Anybody got direct experience of this specific move - specifically
A) would a Rocna set materially quicker / in less distance?
B) is there any material difference in ultimate grip when set properly ?
C) when using an anchor swivel, does a Rocna self rotate the right way to go on the roller ?

A). Yes, much better (in my experience).
B). Don’t know, as never ended up using the Delta in any serious conditions. But the Rocna has proved good grip on 99% of occasions (nothing is infallible and we dragged badly once when wind changed and rose, when I think we were on very weedy bottom).
C). No doesn’t self rotate, but binned the swivel as without this it will come up the right way round 90% of time (circa 50% with swivel) and roll bar provides an easy way to right it if necessary.

And the extra benefit. A Rocna provides a great bow step for getting on and off the front when using Baltic moorings.

 

[dunedin]

I suspect that the observation that the Rocna is "better constructed and is built more robustly" was made before the Chinese doo-doo hit the Rocna fan.

Richard

Remind me how many years ago that brief interlude was?

 

[coopec]

I'm so sorry ? I resurrected this thread by mistake. Geeez!

I couldn't understand where my posts were going then I looked at the thread title..............

But not all was lost as I've now bookmarked the Scuttlebutt Forum so I'll be very interested to read the threads in future.

 

[RupertW]

WOW. Old thread warning, as this was a question I posed in 2015!

Having been resurrected, I might as well say what happened. So after reading various inputs, and the bad experience with the Delta on the new boat vs the Rocna on my previous boat, I bit the bullet and bought a 20kg Rocna. As was cruising, I had to leave the almost new Delta behind and was given about £25 trade in for it.

However, I have never regretted that decision. Instantly was back to the anchor setting experience I was familiar with, and after a LOT of use over the following 4+ seasons am very happy with the change.

So to answer my own questions 4+ years later ....



A). Yes, much better (in my experience).
B). Don’t know, as never ended up using the Delta in any serious conditions. But the Rocna has proved good grip on 99% of occasions (nothing is infallible and we dragged badly once when wind changed and rose, when I think we were on very weedy bottom).
C). No doesn’t self rotate, but binned the swivel as without this it will come up the right way round 90% of time (circa 50% with swivel) and roll bar provides an easy way to right it if necessary.

And the extra benefit. A Rocna provides a great bow step for getting on and off the front when using Baltic moorings.

I might as well update my “Want a Rocna but Delta still working fine” comments.
5 years on and some more severe anchoring conditions and Delta still never dragged once set.
Setting does seem to take about 2-3 metres but is as easy as gently paying out the scope as the boat goes backwards then slowly increasing to full reverse to check the seabed.
So maybe Rocna (or more likely Spade) in a season or two.

 

[Pete7]

Well if it helps, this is a photo of a 10kg Delta and a 10kg Rocna taken in 2014, post shank debacle . The Rocna having a much greater blade area. Am I happy with the switch? yes we have increased the holding power whilst still retaining an anchor that can be stowed in the anchor locker. Plus launched and recovered by hand only needing the windlass if there is a tide or brisk breeze. The only down side I can see is the price has gone up quite a bit over the last 6 years.

Pete

 

[RichardS]

Remind me how many years ago that brief interlude was?

From memory, I think that the storm broke in 2009 or 2010 but you'd have to search online to find the full details.

Richard

 

[LittleSister]

I suspect the chart Coopec shows in post #141 above was compiled by Rocna and, while drawing on a number of independent sources, selects the results that best favour the Rocna.

It's also curious that it says 'Results for aluminium anchors have been adjusted to allow comparison with steel anchors', but doesn't say (at least not in the chart) how they have been adjusted. I seem to recall that the Fortress outperformed the Rocna in certain tests. If they have equalised fluke area 'to allow comparison', that eliminates the potential advantage of aluminium anchors in allowing a greater fluke area for a given weight.

I would emphasise that I am not at all against Rocna anchors (I'd be very pleased to receive a donation of one!), but I am in favour of taking advertisers' claims with a suitable pinch of salt.

 

[vyv_cox]

I suspect the chart Coopec shows in post #141 above was compiled by Rocna and, while drawing on a number of independent sources, selects the results that best favour the Rocna.

It's also curious that it says 'Results for aluminium anchors have been adjusted to allow comparison with steel anchors', but doesn't say (at least not in the chart) how they have been adjusted. I seem to recall that the Fortress outperformed the Rocna in certain tests. If they have equalised fluke area 'to allow comparison', that eliminates the potential advantage of aluminium anchors in allowing a greater fluke area for a given weight.

I would emphasise that I am not at all against Rocna anchors (I'd be very pleased to receive a donation of one!), but I am in favour of taking advertisers' claims with a suitable pinch of salt.

The chart is supposedly the one produced after the joint YM/Sail/West Marine tests in 2006. I have the original and use it in my anchoring talks. However, the version shown above was modified by Craig Smith using his own criteria. In the original version Fortress is the furthest right, although a larger version than would be equivalent to the 35 lb steel anchors was tested. Spade was marginally better than Manson Supreme and Rocna.

 

[Bobc]

the one thing you need to do with the Delta to get it set easily is nothing!..........drop the hook slowly and slowly pay out chain as you drift back in what breeze there is, this should be sufficient to set the anchor nicely assuming a nice sandy bottom. I have found if you try to set it by charging astern at great deal of knots you will only drag the abchor.
Once set and in a good bottom it will not shift. I did early trials on the Delta with the RNLI when they were looking for a secondary anchor to replace the Fisherman type. We used an Arun class lifeboat for the trials and achieved great results by just letting the weight of the boat drifting back set the anchor.
I am looking at purchasing a Najad 331 and the first thing I will do is replace its present Bruce with a Delta.

That's exactly how I set my Delta and never had a problem with it.

 

[ditchcrawler]

I bought a Rocna in 2007 , one of the early ones in the UK which was imported from NZ and the agent at the time was in Ireland. I picked it up at LIBS.
I had some discussion with Craig Smith of Rocna, some people will remember him, explained my anchoring requirements and replaced a 10kg Delta with the 10kg Rocna.
My anchoring is mostly east coast local stuff with a very occasional overnight but not in exposed or fierce conditions. I was looking for more holding power
but with no increase in handling and weight.
The Rocna has performed very well and certainly when raised has a lot of the east coast sticking to it. At times it has been difficult to get up and I have dragged it out backwards.
I do not use a swivel and confirm that most if the time it turns quite easily and it is just a question of timing the last bit into the stemhead on retrieval.
My boat is a Moody 31 about 4 and a quarter tons and I use 30m of 6mm grade 40 chain with 20m of rope. This was on good advice from the very
knowledgeable people at Eye Co. The rope bit has only been in the water once from memory as I am usually anchoring in shallow water.

 

[Neeves]

How could we forget young Craig?

Ditch crawlen - I think your experience is pretty typical - especially the part where you change a Xkg old gen anchors for an Xkg new gen anchor. The two downsides of the Rocna (and Supreme) are its roll bar (and it fits or not) and the issue of collecting mud (and weed) - you do need a good deck wash. Maybe I can add a 3rd downside, cost?

One day there will be enough people who bought a smaller new gen anchor than the one it replaced to develop suffice background to slowly move the purchase pattern and take advantage of the better hold of the new gen model(s)

Jonathan

 

[LittleSister]

My anchoring is mostly east coast local stuff . . .

The Rocna has performed very well and certainly when raised has a lot of the east coast sticking to it. At times it has been difficult to get up and I have dragged it out backwards.

I've had exactly the same experience as described by ditchcrawler on the East Coast, but in my case with, variously, an old CQR, a Danforth type and a Bruce copy!

I imagine an old garden trowel on the end of the chain, in place of an anchor, would probably suffice in that area, with its glutinous mud and generally good shelter.

It's usually only when elsewhere that I've had trouble getting an anchor set. (I've never had an anchor drag after I thought it was set, but then I can't remember ever being at anchor in severe conditions.)

I'm convinced NG anchors are generally significantly better at setting properly more quickly and reliably. I'm not entirely convinced that the additional holding power is that important, but that may be because of my lack of dragging troubles to date, due to either luck or limited circumstances.

Having pondered the possibility of replacing my current anchor (7.5kg Bruce copy), I'm rather surprised by the range of recommended sizes (6 to 15 kg steel, and 3.2 to 7kg aluminium), and prices (£65 to £830 ), recommended for my boat (27.5ft, 4 tons), and that weights (as well as prices!) for NG anchors were generally higher than for the older types. If I make the change, current contenders look like Delta, Kobra, Knox, in that order of increasing point in making a change, but also increasing financial pain deterring any such change!

 

[Sybarite]

The chart is supposedly the one produced after the joint YM/Sail/West Marine tests in 2006. I have the original and use it in my anchoring talks. However, the version shown above was modified by Craig Smith using his own criteria. In the original version Fortress is the furthest right, although a larger version than would be equivalent to the 35 lb steel anchors was tested. Spade was marginally better than Manson Supreme and Rocna.

May I draw attention to the Brittany Roc anchor. In the French catalogues the comment on the Rocna was that it was in the same class as the Britany Rock.

Britany Rock ancre charrue - Google Search

If I change my boat I will reserve a budget for a Spade. It has consistently come out on top of independent trials over nearly 20 years and I would choose it over a Rocna because of it ability to cut through kelp and not to bring up tons of mud the way the Rocna does with its hoop. As for the cost, you may have to spend an extra £100-£200 but what's the price of peace of mind in knowing that you have the best and also in relation to the overall value of the boat?

 

[Neeves]

May I draw attention to the Brittany Roc anchor. In the French catalogues the comment on the Rocna was that it was in the same class as the Britany Rock.

Britany Rock ancre charrue - Google Search

If I change my boat I will reserve a budget for a Spade. It has consistently come out on top of independent trials over nearly 20 years and I would choose it over a Rocna because of it ability to cut through kelp and not to bring up tons of mud the way the Rocna does with its hoop. As for the cost, you may have to spend an extra £100-£200 but what's the price of peace of mind in knowing that you have the best and also in relation to the overall value of the boat?

I have noted nationalistic buying tendencies, lots of Fortress in America on bow rollers, Spade are very popular in French Polynesia, Excel are very popular in Oz and NZ - and I might not be quite so gushing - but I would tend to agree. Spade (and Excel) are both good in weed and then everywhere else a Rocna is good. None of them are any good in slimy mud where a Fortress stands supreme.

But no anchor is perfect.

Jonathan

 

[LittleSister]

If I change my boat I will reserve a budget for a Spade.

If I sold my boat I'd be able to afford an aluminium Spade!

 

[vyv_cox]

May I draw attention to the Brittany Roc anchor. In the French catalogues the comment on the Rocna was that it was in the same class as the Britany Rock.

Britany Rock ancre charrue - Google Search

If I change my boat I will reserve a budget for a Spade. It has consistently come out on top of independent trials over nearly 20 years and I would choose it over a Rocna because of it ability to cut through kelp and not to bring up tons of mud the way the Rocna does with its hoop. As for the cost, you may have to spend an extra £100-£200 but what's the price of peace of mind in knowing that you have the best and also in relation to the overall value of the boat?

I also have a French anchor test, probably posted by yourself, that placed the Kobra II above the Spade. I think that is the only test of the many I possess in which the Spade did not come out top. The Kobra may be better than the Delta(?) but I find it difficult to imagine it out-performing a Spade.

 

[Poey50]

If I sold my boat I'd be able to afford an aluminium Spade!

Certainly the safest option mentioned so far.