Delta to Rocna - is it worth it - three specific questions

dunedin

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I know, I know - not another anchor thread. Sorry.
But these things are important to peace of mind when reliant on the hook in bad weather (eg Scotland West coast where pontoons and moorings are a rarity)

We used a standard Bruce style (manufacturer fitted) then latterly a Rocna on our previous boat - and had no material issues or scares in 10 years. Drop, quick tug in reverse, forget.

New boat came with a 20kg Delta - but initial impressions are a bit mixed. Specifically of the first 4 or 5 uses, in light wind "lunch hook" conditions, it seemed to take a long distance to set - hopping along the bottom alarmingly with very little weight in it.
Latterly we have done a much more cautious approach - dropped, let boat lie back. But waited 15 minutes or so before very gently astern to see if setting.

Also, anchor came with a swivel - but 9 times out of 10 when lifting, unless get straight onto roller instantly, the balance of anchor seems to turn itself the wrong way round requiring contortions with boat hook to get right way and onto roller.

So wondering about whether it would be worth the substantial investment to swap a near new Delta for another Rocna. Anybody got direct experience of this specific move - specifically
A) would a Rocna set materially quicker / in less distance?
B) is there any material difference in ultimate grip when set properly ?
C) when using an anchor swivel, does a Rocna self rotate the right way to go on the roller ?

For info we have a heavy ish 38 footer, and have recently invested in 80m of 8mm chain in the locker.

PS Please don't give me lots of suggestions of other / better hooks. It's stay with Delta or move to Rocna.
And if anybody is downsizing and wants to swap a 20kg Rocna for a 15kg one let me know ;-)
 

Kelpie

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Can't help except to say, if you need funds towards a new Rocna, I'll happily take your 15kg off you!
 

RupertW

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I too am considering swapping to a Rocna but am put off by the need to change the bow fitting so that it can stow properly.

The main thing that is stopping me changing, though, is that the Delta has never dragged once set, and the setting distance (from snorkelling down almost every time) is a couple of metres or much less. The only time it has failed to set was with a thin layer of sand over a big slab of smooth rock.

So your experiences with the Delta make me wonder if there is something about the bottom in your local area which any anchor would struggle with - perhaps very liquid mud, assuming you are letting out the normal scope before setting.

I want the Rocna for those occasions which I havent yet encounterd where I get 50 knot plus winds or some other extreme that would cause the Delta to break out where the Rocna would not.
 

Robin

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Never had anyproblems setting a 35lb Delta on previous boat, but don't be in a hurry to go full speed astern, let the boat swing and drift back before gently applying some reverse then gradually increasing the revs. I was very please with that Delta which was probably one size smaller than ideal for the 41 foot sun Legende we had. However when we bought our current 36 footer here in the USA, it came with a 'dock queen polished stainless claw and I replaced it with a new 45lb Delta, probably one size up than needed, We also changed the mixed chain and warp rode to all 3/8 inch (10mm) chain 15o feet in one unjoined length. Yes the Delta back in our UK days sometimes came up wrong way round for the roller but that was usually because the boat was moving forwards as the anchor came up and it's geometry tended to rotate it that way ( it had a swivel connctor). So easy cure is to be patient and don't move off or drift forwards until the anchor is up fully clear of the water. winding it up fast with the windlass tended to get the boat moving forwards so I used to pause the winding for a minute about 3 parts up then take it slowly in pulses I suppose going backwards slowly with the anchor at the surface might get it into the right orientation, but I never tested the theory.

We could have gone for a Rocmantspade when we re-specced the ground tackle, but chose not to a) because our bow roller was not ideal for them and b) why not use a delta which we had used very successfully for many years in all weathers and had high confifdence in it. c) the Delta is by far the most popular choice of all the cruisers where we now sail and much as I respect and value the opinions those using the new gen stuff, in difficult bottom conditions, notably eastern Med, sometimes it seems to me that they do so to compensate for bad or sloppy setting techniques. But then what do I know, I used CQRs for years with excellent results so I must be seriously deluded:p.
 
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BelleSerene

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C) when using an anchor swivel, does a Rocna self rotate the right way to go on the roller?

Mine does even without a swivel, every time. (I recognise this may depend on the shape of the bow roller.) If I trusted/ afforded a swivel, it would avoid the twist I sometimes get in the last metre. As it is, the thing always untwist all but the last half turn while I'm weighing it on the winch.
 

RupertW

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But then what do I know, I used CQRs for years with excellent results so I must be seriously deluded:p.

My dilemma also. CQR - always held once set . Danforth - always set and always held Now Delta - always holds once set.

More experience needed I think.
 

RichardS

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After a year with the Delta which came with the boat and a couple of dragging sessions in weed and very soft mud we switched to a Rocna. It was definitely the right thing to do as in everything other than solid rock the Rocna seems to get a grip (and even then it once got a grip in sheet Croatian rock by lodging the point into a crack in the rock about an inch deep but I wouldn't recommend this!)

We have a Kong swivel but the Rocna always comes up the wrong way without fail If you lower it back into the water and slowly continue forward the flow over it clearly aligns it the wrong way and it never flips round. I suggested to SWMBO this month that I slip into reverse as the anchor comes up as that will presumably flip it to the right way round but she said that it is easy on the cat to reach into the anchor slot and flip it round manually.

Richard
 

Frersfanatic

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My new boat came with a 20kg Delta and whilst it never dragged I wasn't particularly happy with it as it looked somewhat underwhelming on the bow - which probably affected my confidence in its holding power down below. I've had CQRs for years and never been let down by them but after reading all the latest research it seemed to be a choice between a Spade and a Rocna. I borrowed a Spade in Jersey to test out and the demountable shank with that R clip sticking out didn't appeal to me not to mention the poor quality welding on the flukes. So I went for a 33kg Rocna and had the bow roller modified to accommodate it. It wasn't a particularly difficult job and now the anchor fits securely and the holding power is superb. The amount of sand or mud that the Rocna brings up proves that. I have a swivel and it almost always comes up the right way round - the technique of pulsing the windlass as mentioned by the previous poster is quite important to bring it onto the rollers smoothly. Also, there is a very neat bow ladder you can buy that wedges between the roll bar and the fluke.
 

noelex

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A) would a Rocna set materially quicker / in less distance?
Yes from I have observed much quicker. You will avoid this sort of problem that is not very unusual with the Delta:
image.jpg1_zpsadizwbtc.jpg

In my opinion the average setting distance of the Rocna is about 1/5 of the Delta in most substrates.

B) is there any material difference in ultimate grip when set properly ?
Yes in most substrates the Rocna will have a lot higher ultimate grip

C) when using an anchor swivel, does a Rocna self rotate the right way to go on the roller ?
I don't think you will notice any improvement from the Delta in terms of orientation.
 
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BelleSerene

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We have a Kong swivel but the Rocna always comes up the wrong way without fail If you lower it back into the water and slowly continue forward the flow over it clearly aligns it the wrong way and it never flips round. I suggested to SWMBO this month that I slip into reverse as the anchor comes up as that will presumably flip it to the right way round but she said that it is easy on the cat to reach into the anchor slot and flip it round manually.

Richard

Richard, to be fair I find my Rocna usually comes up the wrong way round too (20kg/ 38ft sailing boat). But then it self-rotates without fail on the anchor roller - in fact if you look at its shape balancing on the back of its shank it has to try to flip over. So I wonder if the shape/ width of the roller is the key?
 

RAI

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I have always wondered why one has to have such a heavy Rocna. It's supposed to be 4 or 5 times better than a CQR and twice as good as a Delta, but it still needs the same weight.
Also, why do so many (English language) comparative tests leave out the (cheap as chips) Buegel anchor, so beloved of German yachts?
 

Garold

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I had a new boat which was supplied with a Delta.

After dragging in soft mud, I changed it for a Rocna. And I was pleased that I did. I anchored in the same places and the improvement was clear.

A roll bar Rocna sets quickly, and tends to hold well. Especially in mud and sand.

Garold

I mentioned the roll bar because on my new boat I have the new type of Rocna, which is designed for mobos.
 

Trident

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I think the OP can see where opinion lies in this thread and I'm not going to change that. I got a 25Kg Rocna (15Kg is recommended for my 35 foot cat, I was planning to buy a 20Kg because I think over size is better and then a second hand 25Kg came up on here at a good price so I got that) - admittedly heavy so its bound to be good on a 4 tonne cat but since I started a "why can't people anchor thread" on this board I've been diving on the anchor every time I set it just for my own interest. On average the Rocna has set within 6 inches of its touch down spot - often within 2 or 3 in sandy Balearic bottoms. I can't of course tell in weed exactly how far but the drag of damaged weed has never been more than a hand length. It sets, it stays, in over 500 nights at anchor now it has never dragged an inch no matter what conditions we've been out in. I'm sure your 15Kg and your nearly new Delta will sell quickly on eBay etc to cover enough for a new bigger Rocna - its peace of mind and to my mind definitely worth the upgrade.
Also, I have Rocna, short chain, Kong swivel, chain and its 50/50 which way up it comes but being on a cat I just turn it round easily from the bow (nice 15 foot wide solid deck to work from)
 

Robin

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These new gen picks are so good you could probably anchor an aircraft carrier on a 10kg one it seems but as another poster asked why are we not seeing multiple people saying how much success they had when downsizing their original anchor to a much lighter newgen type??

I'm not anti progress but so often i seems to me the problem is buying a new style in order to overcome bottom inadequacies/difficulties, casual setting techniques or even just lack of confidence away from parking on marina pontoons.

Then of course having spent the money there is an undoubted need to broadcast how doing so was fully justified. I glanced at one of Hiscocks books again recently and was reminded how he and many similar others survived on such terrible tackle as CQRs

I am then cynically asking how many of those with an abundance of new found confidence in their anchors will actually stay put anyway in their chosen anchorage when heavy winds are forecast or will still run for the nerarest safe haven shelter just like always.

Sorry, my middle name is doubtingthomas, (speudonyym extremecynic), . And this is a very general comment from a dinosaur and not aimed at anyone in particular :D
 

noelex

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I am then cynically asking how many of those with an abundance of new found confidence in their anchors will actually stay put anyway in their chosen anchorage when heavy winds are forecast or will still run for the nerarest safe haven shelter just like always.

For what it is worth, I always anchor.
 

Robin

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For what it is worth, I always anchor.

Sorry Noelex, I knew that in your case but my comment was a general and Devil's advocate one relating to the far less experienced but seemingly very vocal new apostles spreading thenewgen fervour word to the world . Like I have said, I'm not against new tech but in my case see no reason to trade 'up' when existing has always done the job affordably and well. If I had thought, and been convinced when I upgraded our current tackle that I could have gone smaller and lighter and therefore cheaper or more affordable things may well be different but lack of funds and an unsuitable bow roller had me simply reconsider sticking to an old and trusted favourite that is also the choice of most locals cruising the ICW/Bahamas where we cruise these days. We do not suffer the soft thin sand over rock ledge bottoms and avoid weed as a fundamental policy.

However I would reconsider in a Heartbeat if they gave away live clones of your lovely mermaid with every purchase!:encouragement:

keep up the good work with the pics, very useful and educational .

Robin
 
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GHA

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Like I have said, I'm not against new tech but in my case see no reason to trade 'up' when existing has always done the job affordably and well.
If you don't spend weeks on end on the hook and are near shelter than why bother indeed. For others longer term or in more challenging conditions then is clear cut, new gens are better. Try a month or 2 covering lots of miles with a cqr then the same with rocna or spade et al. You'll never go back. :cool:
 

Robin

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If you don't spend weeks on end on the hook and are near shelter than why bother indeed. For others longer term or in more challenging conditions then is clear cut, new gens are better. Try a month or 2 covering lots of miles with a cqr then the same with rocna or spade et al. You'll never go back. :cool:

We like to sleep soundly at nights and don't run for cover after a rogue puff or two but true we don't anchor up for a full vacation/season at a time on dusty sand over rock either but maybe if we did we too would join the evangelistas. I actually quite fancied a Spade but for the same price in the USA could buy a Delta two full sizes up as well as upgrade to a full all chain rode. I rate that as a no-brainer. We went with a one full size larger genuine Delta and whilst we have not sat out a hurricane on it yet have no reason to doubt it for where we are. We do have a Fortress as well to use for when we encounter soft mud bottoms maybe up north in Chesapeake Bay area. Marinas hereabouts cost $2/ft/night so anchoring is essential in my book on a UK pension!
 
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