Delrin bullseye

[Kelpie]

I'm adding a third reef to the main. I've had the work done on the sail, now I need to modify the boom.

The existing reef lines are run through what I would call bullseyes, which are simple low friction eyes riveted in to the side of the boom. Yes I know some form of block would be better but it works well enough and it's quite neat.

I can't find any for sale anywhere, and a Google search turns up skateboard wheel bearings for some reason.

Is there another name for them? And suggestions for a source in Spain (can't find them on SVB)

 

[sailaboutvic]

You may not find them on SVB a site but contract them , I found in the pass they very good at getting stuff in for you .

 

[Neeves]

I think what you are looking for might be called thimbles or even deck thimbles or bushes, they are like one half of a low friction ring and can be made from a variety of materials, I know of stainless and aluminium. I have seen them made from a polymer (but don't know which polymer). They also come in 2 parts each half is threaded so that they screw together in, say, a bulkhead. I think the intention is you glue them in, Sika or some such. Most deck gear manufacturers make and supply them. I think they come in standard sizes (to match standard rope sizes). Rutgerson make them to be screwed into sails (with an adhesive)

Choose from Antal, Allen Brothers Product Range, Holt, Rutgerson, Colligo etc etc.

Sadly you may find some manufacturers give them other names but if you start with deck thimbles or bushes you should make a hit, or 2.

If these are not what you want - maybe post a photo.....

You might want deck blocks - in which case you don't want a thimble nor bush. but you did say the device was attached in to the boom, not onto the boom.....These might be called cheek, deck or foot blocks and there are a host of such devices on this Oz website - useful to you as they feature many of the European suppliers (but these are blocks rather than LFRs or thimbles).

Cheek and Foot Blocks - For Dinghies to Yachts

As an aside we have a 3rd reef in the main, we use it a lot. I happen to be interested in the diverse uses of LFRs - so have the links handy, for you

Jonathan

 

[VicS]

I'm adding a third reef to the main. I've had the work done on the sail, now I need to modify the boom.
The existing reef lines are run through what I would call bullseyes, which are simple low friction eyes riveted in to the side of the boom. Yes I know some form of block would be better but it works well enough and it's quite neat.
I can't find any for sale anywhere, and a Google search turns up skateboard wheel bearings for some reason.
Is there another name for them? And suggestions for a source in Spain (can't find them on SVB)

Are these for entry /exit into and out of the boom as assumed above or as fairleads for externally run lines. If the latter then they are listed as "fairleads" in the SVB catalogue ( and as "bullseye fairleads" in other chandlery catalogues )

see Padeyes & Fairleads for Boats buy now | SVB

 

[GHA]

Might be worth splicing in some dyneema at the reefing end while you're at it, runs much nicer than double braid.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Are these for entry /exit into and out of the boom as assumed above or as fairleads for externally run lines. If the latter then they are listed as "fairleads" in the SVB catalogue ( and as "bullseye fairleads" in other chandlery catalogues )

see Padeyes & Fairleads for Boats buy now | SVB

View attachment 144583

The ones screwed into sails would be an excellent replacement for the normal reefing crinkles.

 

[Kelpie]

Are these for entry /exit into and out of the boom as assumed above or as fairleads for externally run lines. If the latter then they are listed as "fairleads" in the SVB catalogue ( and as "bullseye fairleads" in other chandlery catalogues )

see Padeyes & Fairleads for Boats buy now | SVB

View attachment 144583

For entry and exit, with the lines running inside the boom.
They do the same job as the one in the picture, except they are for through-mounting.
I've seen them used on dinghies for leading lines through the deck, and I've probably got a bunch of them back home, but that's not much help now...

 

[Neeves]

If I understand correctly, which was my original interpretation, you have reefing lines inside the boom and need to take them outboard.

Your idea is like this, see below, - except instead of a chunk of, duplex, steel you will have the boom. You will need a decent drill and some good drill bits to make the holes. I used a substantial bench drill when I hand made prototypes I don't think it would be easy by hand on a boom in situ - you might think of taking the boom off.

You will have some decent holes in your boom if that is the intention. But you are only adding a third reef not drilling holes for 3 reefs.

I'd suggest aluminium 2 part threaded rings, there are a number of suppliers (I don't know where you are) but Allan Bros, Essex, make them (and I think Antal) and they are in their catalogue. I would not suggest ones made from stainless - corrosion comes to mind - but you could use Duralac or Sika to isolate. The Rutgerson devices are to a different design and the exterior of the ring stands proud, much more proud than the other 2 part rings I have seen. This maybe an advantage, or not. I don't know what sizes the Rutgerson rings are made to.

It merits remembering - these are LOW friction rings not NO friction rings. Most of these devices are actually intended simply to modify, slightly, the direction of travel of the line. I have pictures of installations of many of these devices and many applications are simply to keep the ropes tidy and there is no friction at all. They are not really designed to turn the line back on itself (as I have done). However they do work and in my application work particularly well. My threaded rings were custom made and the ones that Allan supply seem longer (they are made to go through bulkheads which will be foam and glass and much thicker than my nominals 10mm - but I assume you can cut the ends of the thread off to have them mount flush. Mine were ever so slightly too long - and I simply packed out. (If you look at the left hand ring you might just see the ring is bedded on Sika, part to glue them together but also to pack out).

I had mine made in both aluminium and stainless they worked as well as each other, I could not tell the difference - but I prefer stainless (but I also prefer mounting in galvanised steel or duplex rather than anodised aluminium). I tend to over engineer, my application is anchoring, as I have seen too many 'things' made for anchoring that have failed, commonly bent. I could have made the plate in 316 but I was genuinely afraid of failure and I have plates made from 2205 Duplex and HT steel (and galvanised). In my interpretation of your installation I would ensure that the working part of the line at the thimble is dyneema (simple braided dyneema - no cover) - its much more slippery. You will need to play around with where you splice on polyester (that you will need for handling by hand). My ropes are nylon and the outer cover is specifically designed to be abrasion resistant. The idea of my device is that you can simply extend the lines, by releasing the tension, and as the lines are elastic they can stretch and contract through the rings. My rings thus need to work continuously whereas once you have adjusted your reef - there will be no further movement.

It has been suggested to me, coincidentally today, that I replace part of my bridle rope for dyneema to reduce friction. This would then make my bridle a compound or hybrid rope (as is being suggested for you), mine to reduce friction, yours to reduce friction but still allow it to be handled by hand. You can splice dyneema to polyester - it is too difficult to try to splice my nylon ropes but I could use 2 eyes, the nylon one sewn and the dyneema a spliced eye.




Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

For the Rutgerson reefing cringles check this link

Rutgerson invents new solution for Reefing - Rutgerson Marin

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

The ones screwed into sails would be an excellent replacement for the normal reefing crinkles.

Spirit,

My fault - I should have added this link at the time

Rutgerson invents new solution for Reefing - Rutgerson Marin

J

 

[William_H]

I like that Rutgerson low friction ring on the clew and tack however it is not clear how the 2 halves are joined together. Anyone know? ol'will

 

[Neeves]

I like that Rutgerson low friction ring on the clew and tack however it is not clear how the 2 halves are joined together. Anyone know? ol'will

They screw together, for security a smear of Sika works.




Check my post 8 above and you can see the 2 halves of something similar and a better picture above. Search Allens website and you can find a whole range of 2 part threaded LFRs. There are many manufacturers - but only Rutgerson seem to make them with the pronounced neck or shoulder as a reefing cringe. I assume the neck is there for a reason. Mine are very 'flat' compared to Rutgerson's but theirs sandwich Dacron which will be 'thin' mine have a 10mm spacing for the plate (which maybe the reason Rutgerson's are more pronounced).

Jonathan

 

[VicS]

They screw together, for security a smear of Sika works.

Jonathan

But Kelpie wants then as entry and exit points for lines running inside the boom. How do you screw them together with one half inside the boom?

 

[Neeves]

But Kelpie wants then as entry and exit points for lines running inside the boom. How do you screw them together with one half inside the boom?

It depends how far inside the boom he wants to place the devices. If its within arm length, no issues. If its further he needs to have another answer. One answer is - lay boom horizontal with prepared hole underneath, push component with batten toward hole, push till it 'falls' into hole - you might need a torch. You might need to add a mouse line - what Kelpie needs is.....imagination and patience. Few things are impossible.

We have no idea on the dimension of the boom, the design of sail - we provide options, Kelpie decides what suits. I don't quite see where a 2 part LFR allowing the line to enter the boom can fit, at all. But Kelpie is already using a similar system - he is happy, so it works. I've offered sources of 2 part LFRs

Ours is not to reason why - but offer our limited and focussed knowledge. If we worried our focus might be wrong - no-body would ever get an answer to anything. If Kelpie cannot 'use' my suggestions - I'm not going to be upset - its the nature of forums (we never get enough detail as a result we offer a shot gun approach - but people pick ideas up - like the Rutgerson devices.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

But Kelpie wants then as entry and exit points for lines running inside the boom. How do you screw them together with one half inside the boom?

And the short answer is...

If you can thread a reefing line through the boom and out of the hole - you can position one half of a threaded ring at the same time.



Jonathan

 

[Kelpie]

Thanks for your extensive thoughts on this. My aim is to copy the reefing system already in place for the first two reefs.

I finally found it- I had a suspicion that it was a Holt Allan part. And I can get it in Spain after all. @Neeves was right, it is a deck bush. But for some reason searching for that on its own turned up nothing. Finding the Allan part number was the key.

Product Range

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Spirit,

My fault - I should have added this link at the time

Rutgerson invents new solution for Reefing - Rutgerson Marin

J

Perfect!

 

[Kelpie]

Job done- parts ordered from chandlery, should be here in the morning. Inmasa call it a 'deck brush with wings', which is not terribly helpful.

 

[Neeves]

Thanks for your extensive thoughts on this. My aim is to copy the reefing system already in place for the first two reefs.

I finally found it- I had a suspicion that it was a Holt Allan part. And I can get it in Spain after all. @Neeves was right, it is a deck bush. But for some reason searching for that on its own turned up nothing. Finding the Allan part number was the key.

Product Range

Just some trivia.

The Allen Brothers split from Holt Allen in 2008 and have established themselves selling initially dinghy fittings but have moved up in size and many of their products are for yachts. They appear to be innovative and have some neat kit. Holt continues as Holt Marine also selling components for dinghies - I understand their reputation came from designing and building a large series of dinghies, from which they developed a place in the component side.

Basically Holt and Allen now compete in the component market.

Jonathan

 

[GHA]

Job done- parts ordered from chandlery, should be here in the morning. Inmasa call it a 'deck brush with wings', which is not terribly helpful.

nearly there then ?