DEKPA latest?

[sailaboutvic]

if we do return the Greece this spring, i was going to use the excuse that we been out of the country if asked why we late not to pay the fine , but if they are going to make me buy a new one anyway , it be best to say nothing other wise it be and 15 Euros for entering Greece.

 

[Pasarell]

Could you ask your neighbour if they just stamped his original - but made him pay - or did they start from scratch. I need this info in putting a case for sensibility to the Ministry of Shipping.

Started from scratch. He now has a completely new DEKPA

 

[Chris_Robb]

Started from scratch. He now has a completely new DEKPA

They are utterly mad!

 

[chrisgee]

They are utterly mad!

Yes ,but ain`t that wonderful!

 

[Chris_Robb]

First Fines levied for 13 days overdue.

Well - its happened. The Greek Port Police at Kalamata have fines a Swedish Yacht €500 for having a 13 day overdue DEKPA. This is absolutely outrageous and could only happen in a corrupt 3rd world country like Greece.

Another of our members there has a 19 day overdue DEKPA and now is in fear of what to do..

Its not as if we hadn't anticipated this. This is the text following up many requests on this matter, of my email in November 2017. Despite chasing we never received a response to this.

Dear Emilia and Ioanna
Now that the sailing season 2017 has come to a close, I would like to get some final answers to the few remaining issues on the new DEKPA implementation.
In general the issuing of the new form has gone extremely well with most Port Police being well informed and helpful to yachtsmen. This is good and can only benefit the good feelings that our members have towards Greece.
We have one major issue, the Renewal Process.

We believe that the published rules say that the DEKPA should be renewed on the expiry date of the DEKPA. We have had a number of members who, knowing that they wont be back in Greece in time next year to renew their DEKPA, have gone to the Port Police to get their annual stamp early. Most Port Police seem to have gone along with this, but a couple have said they cannot do this. This would seem to be a sensible bending of the rules.
The problem in our view lies with the owner who unforeseen, cannot be back - due to illness, family or work commitments, and so will allow their DEKPA to expire. We are not sure what the official position is on this. Fines are mentioned for not having a valid DEKPA and whilst we agree that deliberate avoidance of the rules should be punished, we feel that some flexibility should be built in to allow genuine late renewals. We understand that boats stored out of the water do no need a current DEKPA. Yachts in a Marina I presume need one - or could they be designated "out of use".

We have had advice from Port Police as follows:
1. "An overdue DEKPA will require a new one to be issued, redoing all the forms and paying for a new DEKPA at €50. We do not want to do this as there is a lot of work involved" (My experience with Kos Port Police in June 2017 - who were very efficient and helpful)
2. "an Overdue DEKPA can be just back dated and stamped at its renewal date"
3. "A DEKPA must be renewed on the due date - this can be done by an agent" (Advice to me from your Ministry)

So far no Port Police have commented on the fines that are referred to in the legislation.
Option 1. appears to put the PP to much greater and unnecessary work.

Option 2. would appear to be the sensible pragmatic approach, however in terms of enforcement re the "avoiders" there would need to be guidance on when a yacht is eligible for this treatment (Stored out of the water - clearly ok, stored in the water but out of use may be more controversial). Not understanding the point of the DEKPA, but assuming it may be the basis on which the Cruising tax is levied, we need to have more care in understanding the consequences of any decision here.
Option 3. This is utterly unacceptable, requiring paperwork to be prepared in advance and an agent commissioned. Ships documents and copy passports will be very reluctantly be handed over to an unaccredited person such as an agent.

It would be useful to have a clear statement from the Ministry of Shipping on the exact position that will be required and a note on the fines that may be levied. We understand regulations need teeth to enforce them, but please let that only be the truly guilty ones.
I look forward to your reply.


A strong email has been sent again and this has also gone to the Consulate in Athens, who are useless, so has also gone to our MP for Chichester - who will chivy them up.

So be warned. I will let you know progress.

 

[stranded]

Re: First Fines levied for 13 days overdue.

“...in a corrupt 3rd world country like Greece”

Is this on behalf of the CA, or a UKIP outreach programme?

 

[jordanbasset]

Re: First Fines levied for 13 days overdue.

We found no problem in renewing our DEKPA early and I know of others who have done similarly.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: First Fines levied for 13 days overdue.

well I think the advise for the time being anyway until this is sorted is to just buy a new one and say you just entered the country .
it going to be an interesting start to the season when many get back to their boat too late for a stamp .

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: First Fines levied for 13 days overdue.

Chris
I wonder what the case is if a yacht is returning to Greece after some months away , proof of say a marina fees else where .
surely they cant fine that boat for using an old DEKPA over due for a stamp? mind you after saying that its Greece and has most of us know anything goes in Greece.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: First Fines levied for 13 days overdue.

“...in a corrupt 3rd world country like Greece”

Is this on behalf of the CA, or a UKIP outreach programme?

On my behalf.

 

[JonJon]

Re: First Fines levied for 13 days overdue.

Yes I renewed my (new DEKPA) early in September. I was told by the PP in Preveza that I was mad and I was losing 6 months on my DEKPA in doing so, but I thought as he was telling me this, if I don't get out here next year before the renewal date you will charge me for a new DEKPA AND I will have to again embark on the famous tour of the waterfront properties to gather my various stamps and receipts. So I said just renew it please and smiled as Vic advises.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: First Fines levied for 13 days overdue.

Chris
I wonder what the case is if a yacht is returning to Greece after some months away , proof of say a marina fees else where .
surely they cant fine that boat for using an old DEKPA over due for a stamp? mind you after saying that its Greece and has most of us know anything goes in Greece.

If you are returning from abroad and your DEKPA is out of date, you will need to get a new one at €50. Don't show your old one but also pay your €15 admission fee.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: First Fines levied for 13 days overdue.

Yes I renewed my (new DEKPA) early in September. I was told by the PP in Preveza that I was mad and I was losing 6 months on my DEKPA in doing so, but I thought as he was telling me this, if I don't get out here next year before the renewal date you will charge me for a new DEKPA AND I will have to again embark on the famous tour of the waterfront properties to gather my various stamps and receipts. So I said just renew it please and smiled as Vic advises.

I spoke to my contact at the ministry and she said the fine should apply even 1 day overdue. This was the one that insisted that we would have to make payments and apply on line on their Greek system. Well that was rubbish as we all know. She is head of that department but she has a boss somewhere she had to talk to. I said that without info by Monday I will escalate this to the consulate in Athens. And my MP will kick Their arses.

The Swedish yacht had been given and invoice to be paid within 2 months. I know what I would do with it! But our UK member in Kalamata faces a tough decisions. She is going home in 3 days time for 2 weeks. She is 19 days overdue and can't sail to another port to get it to stamped by someone with more sense. I think they will just have to do it then argue about the bill later, by which time it will be sorted with a bit of luck.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: First Fines levied for 13 days overdue.

If you are returning from abroad and your DEKPA is out of date, you will need to get a new one at €50. Don't show your old one but also pay your €15 admission fee.

so as I said in post 18# to save getting a fine the best option is to say you just arrived and buy a new DEKPA

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: First Fines levied for 13 days overdue.

so as I said in post 18# to save getting a fine the best option is to say you just arrived and buy a new DEKPA

But Vic, if they know your yacht is overwintering in Kalamata - they know which boats are there. It wont be as straight forward as that.

Oh what a tangled web we weave etc..... If you are doing this you really must work out what will trip you up first........

To be honest, I think we will find this incident at Kalamata is a one off, I should get the feed back now as to what the Greeks intentions are - The ones caught so far have been issued with an invoice requiring payment within 2 months...... So just ignore? not if you want to go back....

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: First Fines levied for 13 days overdue.

But Vic, if they know your yacht is overwintering in Kalamata - they know which boats are there. It wont be as straight forward as that.

Oh what a tangled web we weave etc..... If you are doing this you really must work out what will trip you up first........

To be honest, I think we will find this incident at Kalamata is a one off, I should get the feed back now as to what the Greeks intentions are - The ones caught so far have been issued with an invoice requiring payment within 2 months...... So just ignore? not if you want to go back....

agree with you Chris, I was thinking more of leaving where ever you wintered out to another island or port then check in as just entered Greece , although for same this may not be possible for one reason or another but most could unless you willing to risk a 500E fine , for us there no contest.

 

[donde]

Re: First Fines levied for 13 days overdue.

So now we have two (at least) answers on what happens if you do not get the Dekpa stamped in time.
1. You have to get a new one for 50€
2. You get fined 500€ +new Dekpa
Is there any way to find out, what really happens?

 

[macd]

Re: First Fines levied for 13 days overdue.

So now we have two (at least) answers on what happens if you do not get the Dekpa stamped in time.
1. You have to get a new one for 50€
2. You get fined 500€ +new Dekpa
Is there any way to find out, what really happens?

Afraid it's just Greece, so what happened is what really happens. Such things vary from one Port Police office to another. The discrepancy between '1' & '2' will surprise very few familiar with the place. Most of us will expect at least a '3'.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: First Fines levied for 13 days overdue.

there a good chance we be going back this year but unless I hear from someone I know personally , i will just be buying a new one and be done with .

 

[donde]

Re: First Fines levied for 13 days overdue.

I just got my Dekpa stamped one month early at Corfu City port police. The Gouvia branch is not yet working. I was told that late stamping will get fined min 500€. The advice was that if your Dekpa stamp is overdue, do not show it, just get a new one for 50 €.