Define “use sails to control yacht in confined space”

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Handling your boat close to fixed objects, as opposed to buoys in open water, gives insight as to how the boat responds to sail trim and rudder. This may be different to how she handles under power. If you do not think this is of use or interest, that is your choice. Fortunately, we are all free to use our boats as we wish.

In Denmark it was interesting to see a number of engineless boats sailing into and out of the yacht harbours in fresh conditions and mooring between a pair of stern posts and the pier.



A jib is usually cut with curvature to generate lift. Likewise the mizzen on a ketch. Both will generate sideways force and are likely to cause the stern to sail from side to side. Fishing boats that use steadying sails when riding to their gear have them cut flat, in smaller sizes I have seen alloy or similar sheet material used.

My boat does tend to move about a bit when on a mooring or anchored, but I have a pontoon berth and rarely anchor, except for lunch stops, so never tried the 'storm jib on the backstay' remedy, however I am reliably informed that when it debuted as a sailing school boat, the instructor did just that on its first night at anchor.

 

[mattonthesea]

Which, as I've pointed out before, doesn't reflect the sailing most of us do. I could do much cleverer things with one or two knowledgeable crew aboard - but I don't, so I can't.

We had a third crew on board yesterday. What a difference it made to entering a box mooring in Denmark. Our neighbours said it looked good. I don't think anyone would say that about when it's just two of us!

 

[AndrewB]

For those of you familiar with the RYA Coastal Skipper practical course syllabus, there is a requirement to demonstrate control of the yacht in a confined space using the sails.

I’m interested in soliciting views on how this can be achieved safely?

If you’ve done the course, what task did the instructor set for this exercise?

Brings back memories. For my YM I had to sail in and out of marinas in Cowes and the Hamble. Must have driven the harbour-masters s**tless.

Achieved by sailing under headsail only, which was dropped to a point where a crew-member n the fore-deck could control it by grabbing the clew and alternately catching the wind or smothering it. Clever really. But before we had a decent engine, manoevering in harbours (very few marinas then) was done using a stern scull. A lot more sensible and safe.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Brings back memories. For my YM I had to sail in and out of marinas in Cowes and the Hamble. Must have driven the harbour-masters s**tless.

Achieved by sailing under headsail only, which was dropped to a point where a crew-member n the fore-deck could control it by grabbing the clew and alternately catching the wind or smothering it. Clever really. But before we had a decent engine, manoevering in harbours (very few marinas then) was done using a stern scull. A lot more sensible and safe.

And, as borne out by many older cruising books, acceptance that a certain number of dings and scratches were expected. After all, a scratch on a wooden boat can be painted out very easily, but a scratch on a GRP boat is much harder to deal with, especially if it penetrates the gel coat. Arthur Ransome's "Racundra's First Cruise" makes it sound like they sometimes got out of harbours by bouncing off the sides - despite having a professional seaman on board!

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Late to the thread.
For my YM I had to sail onto a pontoon. And sail a figure 8 round a couple of close buoys. Think that meets the definition.

 

[Cloona]

In my lovely plywood Debutante I enjoyed showing off in favourable conditions - backing the jib by hand to get out of a marina - sailing onto pontoons etc...

the boat was light and sailed like a dinghy ... if i hit anything I bounced off and just left a bit of paint ..

rather different doing it in a 6 ton boat when damage could be an insurance claim ... sure in difficulty - engine failure etc - you would have to do it but no fun in the possibility of doing damage

 

[Laser310]

I had a 34ft boat without a motor - two of them actually...

mostly i sailed off a mooring, so it was pretty easy

but occasionally.., and always to winter storage.., i had to sail up a narrow channel in a tidal river, to a series of docks that were filled with boats rafted up in every way imaginable waiting to be hauled for the season.

it was always a bit stressful, as i drew about 5ft and really had to stay in the center of the channel, sometimes tacking every 20 seconds. It seemed like mostly the motor boats figured out what was going on, and gave me enough room without complaining., although there were exceptions....

This was a very heavy boat that carried a lot of way, and the most worrying part was having no idea what the docking situation would be until the last second.., except that i always knew i would be maneuvering under sail very close to some other rather expensive boats on the dock.

I never had any accidents.., but i was always glad to have one or two of my racing crew aboard - they knew how to tack the boat in light and heavy winds.., how to backwind the jib to bring the bow down.., how to back the main to slow the boat.., how to quickly drop the main or the jib. Mostly they knew what to do and when to do it without even being asked.

There is a night and day difference between what is possible even by a good skipper with, or without, good crew.

as far as being asked to run my boat aground - on those boats a slowly going up on mud or sand bank would have been fine - they had full keels. But I still would have probably not obeyed the request. My current boat has a more of a fin keel.., with a pretty good race fairing job.., and there is no way i would purposely run it aground on anything. Some race boats should be hauled and checked after even a minor grounding.

 

[newtothis]

I had a 34ft boat without a motor - two of them actually...

mostly i sailed off a mooring, so it was pretty easy

but occasionally.., and always to winter storage.., i had to sail up a narrow channel in a tidal river, to a series of docks that were filled with boats rafted up in every way imaginable waiting to be hauled for the season.

it was always a bit stressful, as i drew about 5ft and really had to stay in the center of the channel, sometimes tacking every 20 seconds. It seemed like mostly the motor boats figured out what was going on, and gave me enough room without complaining., although there were exceptions....

This was a very heavy boat that carried a lot of way, and the most worrying part was having no idea what the docking situation would be until the last second.., except that i always knew i would be maneuvering under sail very close to some other rather expensive boats on the dock.

I never had any accidents.., but i was always glad to have one or two of my racing crew aboard - they knew how to tack the boat in light and heavy winds.., how to backwind the jib to bring the bow down.., how to back the main to slow the boat.., how to quickly drop the main or the jib. Mostly they knew what to do and when to do it without even being asked.

There is a night and day difference between what is possible even by a good skipper with, or without, good crew.

as far as being asked to run my boat aground - on those boats a slowly going up on mud or sand bank would have been fine - they had full keels. But I still would have probably not obeyed the request. My current boat has a more of a fin keel.., with a pretty good race fairing job.., and there is no way i would purposely run it aground on anything. Some race boats should be hauled and checked after even a minor grounding.

Somewhere out on the intergoogles - I think I saw it here first - is some aerial footage of a crew bringing a bigly race boat in to a finger berth under sail, with lots of zigs, zags and sharp turns. It is a thing of beauty seeing them get sails down and way off as they take the last turn. But not something I'd want to try.

 

[srm]

Go back 70 or 80 years plus and sail was the primary means of propulsion for smaller sailing yachts. Those that did have engines fitted usually had temperamental petrol installations that did not like the slightest damp near their ignition circuits. The lightweight diesel has greatly improved reliability and safety at the cost of turning the vast majority of us in to marine motorists.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Go back 70 or 80 years plus and sail was the primary means of propulsion for smaller sailing yachts. Those that did have engines fitted usually had temperamental petrol installations that did not like the slightest damp near their ignition circuits. The lightweight diesel has greatly improved reliability and safety at the cost of turning the vast majority of us in to marine motorists.

The lightweight marine diesel is responsible for the development of the marina, and the vast majority of us having alongside pontoon berths. Before we all had auxiliary engines, such things were not possible in some conditions, and unnecessarily difficult in most. Maybe fortunately, few could afford anything bigger than a dinghy, so those with bigger boats could have much more space to moor in, which could be safely approached under sail.