Define “use sails to control yacht in confined space”

[Blueboatman]

I could sail in and out of a berth , forwards and reverse with a junk rig .. not clever , it was just so versatile and well behaved

 

[LONG_KEELER]

He ran my instructor assessment.awesome.

Good idea. The plan is to work them up and are things more challenging each day. On the Clyde I used to sail up to the Kyle's of Bute and through Caladah. The rocks certainly are a concentrator!

Certainly having the engine ready is good seamanship. Having it running in neutral is a good safety net, but that edge of excitement can be lost.

Just wondering if you have used the "bucket" during instruction . Not something I have tried myself.

Depending on tide and current, used in wind shadow areas of a marina say, a man at the bow with a bucket and line , thrown forward and hauled in . I believe a metal (clang) type bucket is best. I seem to remember JG saying it works.

 

[capnsensible]

Just wondering if you have used the "bucket" during instruction . Not something I have tried myself.

Depending on tide and current, used in wind shadow areas of a marina say, a man at the bow with a bucket and line , thrown forward and hauled in . I believe a metal (clang) type bucket is best. I seem to remember JG saying it works.

I kinda remember him writing about it in his excellent ' let's do it under sail' series, I think for pbo. I would imagine it would have to be when the current is slack.

What I have tried with moderate success is steering a long keel yacht astern with a bucket on 3 or 4 metres of line off the bow. That was in Haslar Creek. In the limited time we had, it seemed to work.

Had some sport with a hanked on storm jib up the backstay on a couple of different yachts.

Just takes a bit of lateral thinking. And someone else's yacht.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

It's a func ourse to teach. Your students are generally OK with basic sailing but you can build up the intensity over the duration. People often go sailing and mebbe do three tacks per passage! You have the chance to do a zillion tacks and gybes, sail trimming etc like you are working up a racing crew.

Once they are used to the boat and each other, setting a triangular short course a d doing timed runs gets the juices going. Also heaving to, man overboard under sail, etc. You can drop a marker in the water, like a Danbury and ask your students to do a couple of maneuvers to get back to it. Eg one tack, one gybe, two gybes, etc.

Once you've got them understanding this stuff in open water, then you can head into ports and harbours. This also heightens their collision avoidance as well assail control. Wheni was taught to teach it, I had it pointed out that sailing slow is more of an art than sailing fast.

As you move into more restricted space, I find that timing is important. Practising these skills at say, 1800 means less traffic then say 1000. I've often used diesel docks in the evening to practice sailing alongside after they have shut for the day. Generally we'll fendered.

By the end of the course as they grow in confidence, you will get a buzz. Enjoy.

I used to instruct on engineless 5.70 metre dayboats in Baltimore harbour; sailing on and off moorings coming alongside piers , pontoons and anchored boats, MOB, heaving- to etc., etc. Getting them to sail off a mooring backwards was fun, as was sailing close past a pot buoy or mooring and calling a "crash heave-to", with the objective that they should end up close enough to the buoy to be able to hit it with a heaving line.
During our instructor assessment, and subsequent three-yearly revalidation, one of the things we had to do was to be able to come alongside an anchored boat and stop within the span of the assessor's extended thumb and forefinger.
At the end of a week's course, we would organise a sail in company through the islands in the Bay, perhaps visiting North Harbour on Cape Clear Island, which meant performing about fourteen tacks through the narrow fiord-like entry, where the wind was always 'on the nose', then manoeuvering to raft up the four or five boats on the ferry pier.
Edit: I was once asked by a tourist on Cape Clear pier; " Why are your engines so quiet?"?

 

[Sandy]

If an instructor made me sail my boat aground, we would be following up very swiftly with some instructor overboard drill.

It is quite common for an instructor to do that. How often do you run aground and do you know how to get off again?

 

[Giblets]

As mentioned above such things are best done when no one else is manoeuvring.

Or watching!!

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Watching us broad reach into a berth at 2-3kn with no sail set causes a bit of amusement from time to time

 

[ProDave]

I "sailed" into our berth at the weekend. Wind was blowing us into our berth so motor was on tickover down the fairway. As I turned into the berth the motor stalled (it turned out it had just picked up a big lump of weed) so I "sailed" the last bit just with the windage of the boat. I thought that was less chance of hitting anything than trying to re start the motor.

Any other wind direction the motor would have been working harder and the weed probably would not have stalled it.

 

[LittleSister]

I was lazing about one sunny day, perhaps eating an ice cream, by Horsey Windpump (windmill) on the Broads, when I spotted a dinghy or dayboat coming down the narrow cut from Horsey Mere towards me at an impressively confident pace, and with the wind behind them.

'That's brave', I thought, given there's barely enough width for both a small boat and its boom out sideways to pass the boats moored to the bank of the cut, and that at its end, just in front of me, is a sharp 90 degree turn into a yet narrower cut, with moored small boats on the downwind side and a dead end about 50 yards or so from me.

I sat up and paid attention to see how they would manage it, hoping to learn some new technique, or at least admire their bravery and skill.

Sadly, they barely made the turn, and now on an uncontrolled beam reach, scraped along the line of moored boats with their hull and boom until they came to an ungainly halt at the dead end!

Isn't there some pithy saying about learning from others' experiences to save having your own? ?

 

[Birdseye]

For those of you familiar with the RYA Coastal Skipper practical course syllabus, there is a requirement to demonstrate control of the yacht in a confined space using the sails.

I’m interested in soliciting views on how this can be achieved safely?

If you’ve done the course, what task did the instructor set for this exercise?

Assuming there is wind to sail you should be able to do under sail anything you can do under engine - mooring to a pontoon and leaving one ( in between two other boats) picking up a mooring buoy and dropping one in amongst moored boats etc. Essentially, doing what you would have to do in harbour if your engine failed or if you didnt have an engine as in the case of the Falmouth working boats

Its a fascinating activity. I remember well how many boats left the visitor moorings in Fowey whilst we were practising mooring amongst them.

 

[Birdseye]

And when the harbour rules say no sailing inside the harbour?

So what about boats with no engine. Or dinghies?

My reaction would be to ignore the rules.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

So what about boats with no engine. Or dinghies?

My reaction would be to ignore the rules.

They’re not allowed in our local harbour. And if you told them your engine had failed, they’d take you under tow.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

They’re not allowed in our local harbour. And if you told them your engine had failed, they’d take you under tow.

I sail single-handed. The clear space between rows of boats in my marina is about twice the length of my boat - perhaps less in places. I'm at the shoreward end of the main pontoon. Even if it wasn't prohibited, there's no way I could tack in the space available. Even if I had a crew, I doubt there's space to gain steerage way after tacking. As there's no way I could handle the sails and maintain close control of the boat, I would simply anchor outside or pick up a mooring and ask for help!

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I sail single-handed. The clear space between rows of boats in my marina is about twice the length of my boat - perhaps less in places. I'm at the shoreward end of the main pontoon. Even if it wasn't prohibited, there's no way I could tack in the space available. Even if I had a crew, I doubt there's space to gain steerage way after tacking. As there's no way I could handle the sails and maintain close control of the boat, I would simply anchor outside or pick up a mooring and ask for help!

Sometimes, no amount of skill can overcome the odds stacked against you. In days gone by, when all yachts lived on swinging moorings, or at most, piles, it was a relatively simple matter to pick up your mooring with no engine. I still have a minature yacht just like it, on a swinging mooring, which, whilst occasionally strenuous, can be sailed onto with no power to assist. The Dragonfly, no way on Gods good earth is such a boat ever gojng to be sailed in confined waters. Engines are reliable now, thankfully. Plus, it’s light enough to paddle. It too can pick up a mooring, or drop anchor under sail. We have done both of those things. Just not sailed into a marina, or off a crowded anchorage, it’s just irresponsible. My insurers would disown me.

 

[capnsensible]

It's good to get feedback isn't it from those who sail shorthanded or on unusual craft.

Underlines, I would say, why Coastal Practical courses use AWBs and 4 or 5 crew to demonstrate and learn sailing skills.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

It's good to get feedback isn't it from those who sail shorthanded or on unusual craft.

Underlines, I would say, why Coastal Practical courses use AWBs and 4 or 5 crew to demonstrate and learn sailing skills.

Which, as I've pointed out before, doesn't reflect the sailing most of us do. I could do much cleverer things with one or two knowledgeable crew aboard - but I don't, so I can't.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I’m perfectly able to do all of the mentioned stunts on a keelboat with 4 or 5 crew, but honestly, hanking a spare jib onto a backstay to get into your berth… who has one that handy, and about 90% of us are effectively short handed. I only ever sail with my wife. I’d suggest to an instructor that he askes her to undertake some pointless task, and see what she says. After about 10 000 miles of inshore sailing, she may have come to notice a thing or 2

 

[capnsensible]

Perhaps some posters have mis understood the OP?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Perhaps some posters have mis understood the OP?

I don’t think so. What we’re saying is that it’s of no practical use in the real world, for 90 odd % of us. Who, apart from race boats and sailing schools, sails their boat with a full crew of competent adults?

 

[capnsensible]

I don’t think so. What we’re saying is that it’s of no practical use in the real world, for 90 odd % of us. Who, apart from race boats and sailing schools, sails their boat with a full crew of competent adults?

For those of you familiar with the RYA Coastal Skipper practical course syllabus, there is a requirement to demonstrate control of the yacht in a confined space using the sails.

I’m interested in soliciting views on how this can be achieved safely?

If you’ve done the course, what task did the instructor set for this exercise?