Death knell of Sea Schools?

[FlyingGoose]

For better or worse, the virus has taken attention away from the obesity epidemic, type 2 diabetes epidemic , and hypertension epidemic and many Cancers. All largely avoidable .

I wonder what the odds of expiring are from CV compared to the above.

There is also strong science suggesting that the industrialisation of farm animals in the West is a major factor of infections that jump from animals to humans. Up until now, the world has never the effect of this. You have to wonder that poultry and pigs are probably the most heavily crowded.

100% and the Bird flu and Swine Flu were all linked to animals in heavily crowded areas passing the virus to each other , and with so many targets the virus got to mutate and Jumped to Humans

 

[pvb]

For better or worse, the virus has taken attention away from the obesity epidemic, type 2 diabetes epidemic , and hypertension epidemic and many Cancers. All largely avoidable .

Are you serious? How many cancers do you consider to be "largely avoidable"?

I wonder what the odds of expiring are from CV compared to the above.

Very much lower.

 

[Paddy Fields]

Yup.

There is increasing evidence that the mortality rate is much, much lower than originally predicted - i saw some claims today that it could be 0.1%. - Obviously time will tell
Of those - around 90% are those with underlying medical conditions or the elderly.
SO our actions MAY give maybe 100,000 - 150,000 people maybe an extra year of life.

Ironically - it looks as if the lockdown wasn't necessary to achieve this - The peak deaths by date of death was April 8 - suggesting that peak of infection was 14 - 21 days before that. At the latest, that suggests peak infection on the day that the lockdown was announced, i.e. earlier measures were working. Also look at the experience of Sweden.

And the cost?
Oncology doctors have predicted this could cost 10's of thousands of cancer deaths - approximately 2300 cases not being diagnosed per week. These will be spread amongst all ages, not focused on the elderly
I would expect similar vast numbers of deaths from other causes - We have already seen the ONS figures for excess deaths being much higher, even if you exclude covid related deaths.
Domestic violence calls doubled
The vast majority of vulnerable children in danger as they are not in school and number of children referred to childrens services halved
Childrens education disrupted
great mental health problems leading to additional murder and suicide.
And lets not forget the financial cost. Paying the interest on this huge sum borrowed will take from money that could be spent more productively on other things in future.

Then lets look at some of the reaction from the police and the lockdown stasi with people, even nurses being criticised for going to work - health workers being spat at for being virus spreaders or asked to leave their rented accommodation.

So in summary -

Are their deaths - yes - loads.
But many of them are just bringing the date of death forward by a few months and the actions to save maybe 100 to 200,000 are causing significant extra deaths. No one is asking why dying of Covid is unacceptable but dying of cancer is ok.
Then add in the ridiculous behaviour of SOME members of the general public and i think panic and hysteria are appropriate

20:20 vision in hindsight is a great thing, isn’t it. Remeber, when we locked down, the hospitals in northern Italy were in melt down. We didn’t know how bad it could get.
We are lucky that our NHS has not collapsed under the strain. If it had, things would be a lot worse.
While we expect the right to health treatment, those who give it have the right not to if they believe their own lives are at risk. So it not just our liberty you have to think about, you also have to think about the rights of health workers.

 

[capnsensible]

Are you serious? How many cancers do you consider to be "largely avoidable"?



Very much lower.

Whats this got to do with Recognised Training Centres and their financial survival?

 

[PhillM]

I feel sorry for the sad employees of these small, poorly-funded sailing schools, of which there are many. Their lives will never be the same again.

Tbh my experience is that the staff move on. It’s the owners who try to keep the show on the road for perhaps too long, it’s they who lose their homes and sometimes families too.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

The loss of sailing schools is not even a statistically measurable blip on the rank of small business that will disappear never to return. So far as it being a loss to the sailing community, well, you can learn to sail without going to a sailing school.

+1 However crewed Sailing will be virtually impossible with social distancing apart from family groups. Apart from the personal loss of jobs I don’t see the demise of sailing schools to be a significant loss. My generation learnt to sail without them and as the Covid crisis is showing on line learning will be greatly expanded in many walks of life. Experience needs practice, time and learning from mistakes. That will be much more difficult to gain.

 

[Sharky34]

Do you have proof , plenty of sea cadets around my Coast, the local Loch has sailing schools for all the youngsters always busy before lock down , plenty of young adult's following it up , was a dinghy instructor in my early 20.s all my friends went to Outdoor Education courses, who were all young adults at the time ,
so were are you basing the younger generation as snowflakes and who want the 50 ft boat now
Please do you have evidence of this .or is your belly rumbling again, and anyone over 65 is the Oracle of Knowledge of the younger Generation as you tap away on your modern device on a forum in Hyper space.
It seems that it is 40 to 65 middle aged men who want the boat or motor bike or fast car and the young blonde to satisfy their manliness.
Sharky for the love of the wee man Have I found you out

Just check the clientel of sailing schools (yots, not dinghies) those doing Day Skipper.
Sea Cadets are too young to go on DS courses & probably coundn't afford them anyway.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

Perhaps folk will learn as many did "in my day" & sail with chums , then buy a small yacht ( sub 20ft ) then progress as one gains experience

+1,+2,+3....and we have stuck at the sport for decades, not just as “an experience”

 

[Vicarage]

I run one of the aforementioned “one man one boat" schools (technically we're a charity but either way we're an RTC).
Come March it was looking on track be our best year for ages. We'd invested really heavily in the boat over the winter on the back of 60% of our berths for the year already being sold and we were starting to think about perhaps hiring a skipper/instructor towards the end of the season to take some of the load off - currently I teach or maintain all day, and run the business in the evenings/weekends.
We've now cancelled everything up to mid June, and I can't see us operating at all this year. Fortunately we structure the business so that we don't spend the bulk of the course fees until after we've run the trip, but even so if everyone asked for their money back we'd be high and dry. My would be crews have been incredibly gracious and I've only had to refund around a third, the rest have said they're prepared to defer their courses until 2021 and in a couple of cases people have let us keep their deposits.
We still have to pay full whack in the marina where we're based, but fortunately I'm technically employed by the business rather than being self employed so have been able to keep the 80% furlough. The worst thing is the freelancer that helps us out during the season - all her work is cancelled and as a very small fry self employed person she seems to be struggling to figure out how to get the assistance for self employed.
I'm also very lucky that my wife has a 'proper' job as a nurse so at least she's not going to be made redundant any time soon. My biggest fear is that when the country starts going back to work, the furlough scheme will stop before organisations like mine are able to start up again.
Not sure if there was any point to my story - but thought it was good for something from the horse's mouth, as it were...

 

[FlyingGoose]

Just check the clientel of sailing schools (yots, not dinghies) those doing Day Skipper.
Sea Cadets are too young to go on DS courses & probably coundn't afford them anyway.

I do not have an RYA practical course nor my wife , we sail of in a 42 ft boat well ok if the Wife is on the helm
You do not need to do a Practical course to sail , it can be helpful for some and for others not , I would presume a large majority of people doing Days skippers are new to sailing (no figures or facts on this but have met plenty out there)

 

[Vicarage]

+1,+2,+3....and we have stuck at the sport for decades, not just as “an experience”

the reality is that we live in an age where people don't own things (I'm 24), and we rent our house etc. I could never afford to buy a boat for pleasure (obviously excluding the fact we have one as our business), and most of my friends find it's far more cost effective to pay to go on a couple of charters/holidays/courses each year. They can then also spend a week skiing, mountaineering or whatever else.
Buying a boat is great but money aside it means that the boat has to be your primary hobby. If you're prepared to hire experiences it means you're free to have lots of hobbies/passions at the same time.

 

[laika]

Perhaps folk will learn as many did "in my day" & sail with chums , then buy a small yacht ( sub 20ft ) then progress as one gains experience

As someone who wasn't party to sailing family, I was quite grateful to be able to pay money to learn to sail and think that making it available to more than those who have "inherited" it is a Good Thing.

 

[FlyingGoose]

As someone who wasn't party to sailing family, I was quite grateful to be able to pay money to learn to sail and think that making it available to more than those who have "inherited" it is a Good Thing.

Well said , I learned my sailing on a grant to attend the Nautical college in Glasgow for being unemployed as a Maggies millions . took me of the streets and I found myself , then off the America for 2 years teaching Dinghy sailing,
This on the back of my family earning their livelihood on the Sea from the Fishing Industry and then the Navy , but no boats in the family

 

[Uricanejack]

I think you might be surprised how many will survive.
The small one man and a boat operations, are marginal at the best of times. If the man survives and still has his boat. It will be back.
The bigger operations, many don’t own the boats, the boats are owned by individuals, through some program or other.
The agency will survive, The individuals relying on charter income to make payments on boats?

Some will not,
Those who don’t, will probably be replaced by new operators.

 

[PHN]

There is also strong science suggesting that the industrialisation of farm animals in the West is a major factor of infections that can jump from animals to humans. Up until now, the world has never the effect of this. You have to wonder that poultry and pigs are probably the most heavily crowded.

It is a scientifically established fact that these virusses (jumping from animals to humans) originate from more intense contact between humans and animals. That has already happened many times throughout the history of mankind. The spanish flue of about a hundred years age, bubonic plague in medieval times, etc. The only difference is that today we can travel much further and must faster making virusses spread more easily.

 

[migs]

Slight thread digression, but I feel that a bit of levity in the form of a sailing school funny is called for:

Having been forced to take an ICC course in order to charter in Greece, I ended up on a posh Hamble sailing school course along with some prospective Day Skipper Practical candidates. I’d already had about 10 years with our own boat (plus several years experience with friends’) . The other students had just taken their Shorebased the week before; they were respectively a consultant brain surgeon (truly), a management consultant and two city boys.

Our training skipper says to the lads, pick up that mooring buoy, and they did; not just the pickup buoy, but the mooring buoy, the riser and a substantial part of the ground chain. An amazing feat of strength - we were certainly well secured.

I must admit that the lads gave a good account of themselves in the pubs of Lymington, but they knew absolutely nothing about practical sailing before the course, and not a lot more at the end. Good to know that they all awarded their Day Skipper Practical…

 

[langstonelayabout]

View attachment 89245


Seriously, this train is about as far as social distancing can go on the Underground!

A packed train is an entirely different affair

LOL - I was thinking that too: this train is only half full. Anyone not really sure should be getting on the Jubilee line at Waterloo at about 08:0 on a Tuesday morning.

Even London Underground have different models of occupancy from empty to one I think is called 'crush' (or something similar).

 

[Poignard]

I run one of the aforementioned “one man one boat" schools (technically we're a charity but either way we're an RTC).
Come March it was looking on track be our best year for ages. We'd invested really heavily in the boat over the winter on the back of 60% of our berths for the year already being sold and we were starting to think about perhaps hiring a skipper/instructor towards the end of the season to take some of the load off - currently I teach or maintain all day, and run the business in the evenings/weekends.
We've now cancelled everything up to mid June, and I can't see us operating at all this year. Fortunately we structure the business so that we don't spend the bulk of the course fees until after we've run the trip, but even so if everyone asked for their money back we'd be high and dry. My would be crews have been incredibly gracious and I've only had to refund around a third, the rest have said they're prepared to defer their courses until 2021 and in a couple of cases people have let us keep their deposits.
We still have to pay full whack in the marina where we're based, but fortunately I'm technically employed by the business rather than being self employed so have been able to keep the 80% furlough. The worst thing is the freelancer that helps us out during the season - all her work is cancelled and as a very small fry self employed person she seems to be struggling to figure out how to get the assistance for self employed.
I'm also very lucky that my wife has a 'proper' job as a nurse so at least she's not going to be made redundant any time soon. My biggest fear is that when the country starts going back to work, the furlough scheme will stop before organisations like mine are able to start up again.
Not sure if there was any point to my story - but thought it was good for something from the horse's mouth, as it were...

Good luck. I hope you can survive this.

 

[Poignard]

In Brittany, where I keep my yacht, there are many historic sailing vessels that are owned by societies set up to restore, maintain and sail them. You see them taking part in classic boat rallies such as Semaine de Morbihan and Vilaine en Fete.This allows those who do not want the commitment of time and expense that individual ownership entails to enjoy some affordable sailing and good company. In return for paying an annual subscription and doing a certain amount of maintenance work they get to enjoy an activity they might not otherwise be able to.

It also keeps interesting and historic vessels in good condition instead of, as is so often seen, them falling into disrepair and ending up abandoned.

It seems like a good idea.

 

[Sharky34]

I do not have an RYA practical course nor my wife , we sail of in a 42 ft boat well ok if the Wife is on the helm
You do not need to do a Practical course to sail , it can be helpful for some and for others not , I would presume a large majority of people doing Days skippers are new to sailing (no figures or facts on this but have met plenty out there)

Of course most of them are new to sailing.
Many seem to be people who work in the City & like something different at weekends, so this weekend it could be paint balling, next weekends will be CC & DS, the latter needed for their summer hols in the Med, chartering.