DreadShips
New member
(I'd missed that it ws you with the original comment - definitely a sign it was my forgetfulness rather than anything else!)
Day Skipper - book recommendations?
- Thread starter dunedin
- Start date
Cuan
Active member
I’ve got a copy of the Tom Cunliffe book, not needed here. Please PM if you would like it
Sandy
Well-known member
Good for her.
Personally, I would not waste any time just getting a Day Skipper text book! Jump in and look at Yachtmaster. If the book does not put her off get the YM theory done. There is a lot of stuff that Day Skipper skips over, secondary port calculations that are really need to be understood if she is planning to do anything in the UK.
dunedin
Well-known member
Thanks for all the thoughts - and apologies for the delay in responding, but have been cogitating.
On reflection, as she is a working mum with two kids, I suspect there is near zero chance of finding a week to do a DS Practical course and exam. Just not going to find the time.
She was thinking along the lines of her elder sister - who did a couple of days training / practice with me, then went off on a flotilla holiday in Greece (where she was apparently one of the more competent skippers, even though her first time “solo”).
But that was 10 years ago when a formal ICC exam / certificate was not required for flotilla if could give a reasonable story re experience. Are there any places in the Med that don’t yet require a formal ICC certificate to charter?
Or perhaps ultimately an ICC assessment on our boat might be a more realistic goal (like I did a few years back).
I probably will still progress the book option. But needs to be something that inspires / enthuses rather than puts off (and let’s be honest, nobody needs tides and light characteristics on a Med flotilla - many other more important things to cover). So definitely more DS than YM. But not yet got a feel for what might be such an inspiring book, vs a turgid off putting one - and not found useful sample pages online. Maybe look and see if any in chandlery to look at.
The online theory course materials looks to be around £300 so a bit much as a first taster. Perhaps that would be a next stage if interest survives a book.
PS. As Skylark suggests, an RYA Cruising Logbook and Syllabus is an obvious first essential (though syllabus also available online)
On reflection, as she is a working mum with two kids, I suspect there is near zero chance of finding a week to do a DS Practical course and exam. Just not going to find the time.
She was thinking along the lines of her elder sister - who did a couple of days training / practice with me, then went off on a flotilla holiday in Greece (where she was apparently one of the more competent skippers, even though her first time “solo”).
But that was 10 years ago when a formal ICC exam / certificate was not required for flotilla if could give a reasonable story re experience. Are there any places in the Med that don’t yet require a formal ICC certificate to charter?
Or perhaps ultimately an ICC assessment on our boat might be a more realistic goal (like I did a few years back).
I probably will still progress the book option. But needs to be something that inspires / enthuses rather than puts off (and let’s be honest, nobody needs tides and light characteristics on a Med flotilla - many other more important things to cover). So definitely more DS than YM. But not yet got a feel for what might be such an inspiring book, vs a turgid off putting one - and not found useful sample pages online. Maybe look and see if any in chandlery to look at.
The online theory course materials looks to be around £300 so a bit much as a first taster. Perhaps that would be a next stage if interest survives a book.
PS. As Skylark suggests, an RYA Cruising Logbook and Syllabus is an obvious first essential (though syllabus also available online)
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finestgreen
Active member
If a taster is what you're after, navathome do a much cheaper basic "nav essentials" online course
obmij
Active member
You have a boat, right?
If a flotilla is the goal and time is an issue, is it not possible to do a one day ICC assessment with you as crew?
Bookwise - why not go straight to the point with the RYA ICC handbook. 5 quid on eBay
dunedin
Well-known member
Yes, as noted I did an ICC assessment only a few years back and thinking that might be the list ic option for her - but needs to get the theory bits first.
The RYA ICC handbook is a good suggestion - and just seen RYA have an App that allows to preview before purchase, so will try that out - as presumably can see the other RYA options through the same app.
ylop
Well-known member
I’m not sure what level of theory they expect and probe for on an ICC but given you can get one for power boating with just a PB2 I suspect it’s rudimentary. The 1 day Nav Essentials course (online or in person) would probably get someone through especially if they had real world experience of putting that into practice on dad’s boat. Certainly for daylight flotilla sailing in the med it would be sufficient.
One thought in terms of skippering a flotilla yacht as a “busy working mum” is she going to have the support needed from the rest of the “crew” - an observation from my wife’s training was that she was focussing a lot on making sure the children were happy/safe/attentive and that made the sailing experience quite intensive rather than relaxing. When someone handed me the keys to a strange yacht and then left us to it - that was quite an intense experience for me too (she would do well to get experience on a few different boats or even better boats of the same design she is expecting to sail there so that she understands how it’s rigged, handles, where the key systems are located etc.
Im not trying to put her off - I think chartering is a great idea. Do you trust her enough to hand her the keys and let her go sailing to the day/weekend without you?
Skylark
Well-known member
Most yacht training establishments want to be as flexible as possible in order to encourage and enthuse participation. As such, there are many routes to gain a qualification. It hence may be worth a quick call to the Principal of a nearby school.
It's not uncommon to do a DS Practical over 3x2-day weekends or a 2-day + 3-day. My very strong recommendation remains to do the DS Shorebased course beforehand.
The ICC Assessment route is another option, school boat or own boat. RYA publication G81 (doubtless there are others, too) is well written, imho, as it lists both the shorebased knowledge and practical skills required, then goes on to cover everything in detail. The general rule is that an instructor can not examine a candidate that he/she has trained. So, you giving training (skills outlined in the book) would be fine and she'd have to self-learn the shorebased section. Not overly onerous. RYA sail instructors, CI or YMI are ICC examiners.
Suggest you call around the local schools and see if they have an ICC weekend (1 day brush-up, 1-day assessment) or if they would provide one of their freelancers for a day to examine and the school submit paperwork to RYA.
Many sailing clubs are similarly approved to carry out the assessment.
I know of at least two sailing schools within The Clyde with female owner/chief instructor, if that's a consideration. I should declare an interest as I've done freelance work for both this past season.
Hope this helps.
dunedin
Well-known member
Bought the RYA Course Syllabus and Logbook at the chandlery, and looked at the books they have. The Cunliffe Day Skipper book did look quite approachable and not too off putting, so may get that.
Didn’t have the RYA ICC handbook so will try to find that online.
Not yet read the Syllabus book yet, but don’t think you need any logbook miles to do an ICC test?
But if doing a logbook, at what age is the miles and experience counted from? Son was competent crew and helming a 32 footer properly (on the rail, with tiller extension) from about 10. Daughter similarly been on yachts since about 7, but not as actively involved initially.
Didn’t have the RYA ICC handbook so will try to find that online.
Not yet read the Syllabus book yet, but don’t think you need any logbook miles to do an ICC test?
But if doing a logbook, at what age is the miles and experience counted from? Son was competent crew and helming a 32 footer properly (on the rail, with tiller extension) from about 10. Daughter similarly been on yachts since about 7, but not as actively involved initially.
dunedin
Well-known member
That’s a very valid point. Fortunately the grand children have been on boats since before their first birthdays so have plenty of basic boat sense, and by the time they actually did go on a flotilla the bigger would be a competent, if small, helper. But also nowadays kids love “screen time” so if a boating crisis easy to send below for screen time to keep them safe.
Hubby is a boating novice but very fast learner. Fit strong and asks really good questions showing amazing boating observation / insight.
dunedin
Well-known member
Thanks for your input, very helpful. Your knowledge of this area is very relevant - but not quite at that stage.
Coincidentally saw at least 3 school boats today, all female skipper / instructor.
One was doing berthing practice in a marina. It was touching how much naive faith some have in being able to stop, and that a gear cable will never fail on a boat. Entering berths at about 4 knots and hammering on the reverse thrust to stop. Made me wince.
I have twice seen seen 36+ foot boats hit at speed and ride up onto a pontoon - enter at speed, put into reverse. Not stopping so use more power in reverse. Only issue is that in both cases the gear cable had failed, so more power meant ahead faster. Fortunately was sloping bows so rising 3 feet onto pontoon absorbed some momentum, as a modern straight bows would have catapulted the crew off the decks. Scary.
Straightman21
Member
RYA Day Skipper
Great starter, well laid out and clear - have used it for all the kids as they have grown up.
Great starter, well laid out and clear - have used it for all the kids as they have grown up.
B27
Well-known member
At that price just buy it.
But check out the syllabus, those cheeky chaps at the RYA may have moved the odd goalpost a tiny bit in the last 30 years!
capnsensible
Well-known member
One man's 'moved the goalposts' is another mans ' improved the course massively to make it relevant in modern times'.
FairweatherDave
Well-known member
I've watched this thread with interest having got both Tom Cunliffe books. The virtue of Tom C is his wisdom and style, he is entertaining. He's not dry textbook. Given the OPs description of his daughter and time constraints, go for the Day skipper version by TC. It covers the ground she needs, it's light and fun. I take mine on the train sometimes to dip into for pleasurable revision.
lustyd
Well-known member
But if they update it, how will we moan that it's massively outdated and useless?
B27
Well-known member
It would be interesting to see what's actually changed.
capnsensible
Well-known member
Just a few I can say straight away. The whole student/instructor relationship has changed dramatically. There is a lot more now given to making instructors far more professional and knowledgeable. Lots more hands on ropes and helm for students. More electronic navigation. Better yachts, newer generally. Training aids at a much better standard. Etc.
I personally think those learning today get a much better course than those on here did 30 years ago and in some cases, still moan about!
It is probably around 30 years ago I taught my first course. Eek.
RunAgroundHard
Well-known member
... whipping is out as is victualling, also morse code, RDF is no longer a requirement, generating a synoptic chart from weather forecasts is gone.