Débutante 21

[Sixpence]

Oops, should have shouted before, like what Pete said
Welcome to the club MH, not many Debutante owners out there, but there are a few, stoopid here being the one with the biggest gob

Right, first off, as others have said, get her under cover first
Then strip off every last bit of paint you can find on the outside, deck and hull
Sounds like a hard job, sorry, it is. But trust me on this one, it's worth the effort
If you can see where she's in need of attention, trust me, it will be a lot more attention than it looks like
Now learn to recognise the sound of good wood as opposed to rotten wood, when you tap it with a pin hammer every few inches. A long and laborious route, just don't ask the wife to do it or she's going to find more than you anyway. Trust me on this one too, no takers for my patent wood rot detector

You may find glass fibre taped seems, rip the bleedin stuff off every time
Yes I know some think I'm wrong here, but most rot was where that stuff was, so well worth doing

If it helps, this is one pic' of Sixpence

She used to be only fit for firewood

PM if I can help, loads more pic's available if it helps, just haven't got time these days to keep up with what's going on here

Oh, and keel bolts, don't pull them unless they feel dodgy

 

[Madhatter]

Thank you Dave (I was hoping you would pop in ).
Sixpence looks nice

 

[Madhatter]

Bowsprit

I suspect I will be asking a lot more question when I get her home so will keep them all on this thread (except the coach roof one ??).
Q:-
do I fit a bowsprit before I get a furling jib (maybe used, offers ?)or fit it to suit what I get within reason.
I know it is a classic boat but I single hand most of the time,and after all the boat is for sailing not posing

 

[reginaldon]

Oops, should have shouted before, like what Pete said
Welcome to the club MH, not many Debutante owners out there, but there are a few, stoopid here being the one with the biggest gob

Right, first off, as others have said, get her under cover first
Then strip off every last bit of paint you can find on the outside, deck and hull
Sounds like a hard job, sorry, it is. But trust me on this one, it's worth the effort
If you can see where she's in need of attention, trust me, it will be a lot more attention than it looks like
Now learn to recognise the sound of good wood as opposed to rotten wood, when you tap it with a pin hammer every few inches. A long and laborious route, just don't ask the wife to do it or she's going to find more than you anyway. Trust me on this one too, no takers for my patent wood rot detector

You may find glass fibre taped seems, rip the bleedin stuff off every time
Yes I know some think I'm wrong here, but most rot was where that stuff was, so well worth doing

If it helps, this is one pic' of Sixpence

She used to be only fit for firewood

PM if I can help, loads more pic's available if it helps, just haven't got time these days to keep up with what's going on here

Oh, and keel bolts, don't pull them unless they feel dodgy

Sixpence, it looks excellent - congratulations on a job very well done.

 

[Madhatter]

another Tucker fan ??

 

[Seajet]

The first boat I ever sailed was a relative of the Deb', a Mystic.

A very pretty boat, though possibly not in the Open 60 stakes for speed.

A keel did fall off while she was on her mooring; don't know if it applies to all Mystics, but 'Compass Capers' was built by Whites of Cowes.

Her owner when I knew her was a good friend, the late Charlie Solley, A Murmansk Convoy veteran; I expect he barely dared dream of owning his own little ship when involved in that lot, I often wonder if the boat is still around.

Photo' shows self aged about 8 on deck.

Very best wishes with your project, it's heartening to see someone giving such boats the attention they deserve.

 

[Madhatter]

Thanks Seajet ,I am looking forward to starting ,I would have liked more exposed wood but ability stopped me.Anyway these little boats have proved themselves, with a little TLC (well a lot ) I hope to have some adventures as well.
D

 

[oldharry]

The first boat I ever sailed was a relative of the Deb', a Mystic.

A very pretty boat, though possibly not in the Open 60 stakes for speed.

A keel did fall off while she was on her mooring; don't know if it applies to all Mystics, but 'Compass Capers' was built by Whites of Cowes.

Her owner when I knew her was a good friend, the late Charlie Solley, A Murmansk Convoy veteran; I expect he barely dared dream of owning his own little ship when involved in that lot, I often wonder if the boat is still around.

Photo' shows self aged about 8 on deck.

Very best wishes with your project, it's heartening to see someone giving such boats the attention they deserve.

Ah. the Mystic, my first 'proper' yacht. I had a C E Clarke of Cowes built boat No 49 iirc, did some quite silly things with her, including Chichester to Falmouth and back. Not bad for an eldelrly ply 20 footer. Not the fastest, as you say, but a very capable boat with a hull almost the same as the Deb. Have a photo somewhere, will post it if I can find it in the loft. Didnt have trouble with my keels, but there was quite a deep deadwood between the casting and the keel, and I would expect that to be qute vulnerable to serious twisting, particularly as materials started to soften and age. Also, the long bolts through the wood would be quite prone to waisting in the timber as things aged.

 

[Seajet]

OldHarry,

Nice to hear of your exploits. Charlie did recover his keel after a little wandering around in the mud, and re-attached it.

I should think he made a good job of it, he was an aircraft engineer, when I knew him as a colleague of first Dad then both of us, he was a Chief Inspector then Draughtsman on the Harrier and Hawk aircraft, and was personally involved in some serious projects.

He recounted to me once that on the Murmansk runs, the Pegasus engines of the Swordfish aircraft had to be started on the way up on the carrier's lift, if it reached the windchill without starting it was back down again.

I've always thought that Charlie's generation ( inc' my Dad, also aircraft engineer on Escort Carriers ) most certainly deserved the post-war boom epitomised by the Mystic and her sisters; our club, Langstone, was formed for the same reason, like many, around 1947 - in the large photo gallery on the club forum, the photo' of the Mystic has scored a lot more hits than it's nearest rival.

Charlie went on to build his dream Folkboat, though a Varne - I think I've sailed most if not all Folkboat formats, let's say the Varne wasn't my favourite.

Regards,

Andy, 'Seajet'

P.S, Have just thought of a photo which may interest people here, suppose I'll start a thread with it...

 

[Lakesailor]

Going back to the need to strip off the paint. I came across this picture the other day of a boat that had been stored for many years. See how the joints under where the paint has dropped off are starting to go.
Interestingly this was supposed to have been the last production boat to be built of ply by this manufacturer and the first to be fitted with outdrives.

 

[Madhatter]

Lakesailor, I cannot believe what I am seeing in your picture ,even the crappiest primer should have left some sort of adhesion on the ply,but it would seem that the whole paint layer(s) have peeled off leaving totally bare wood

 

[Seanick]

Ah. the Mystic, my first 'proper' yacht. I had a C E Clarke of Cowes built boat No 49 iirc, did some quite silly things with her, including Chichester to Falmouth and back. Not bad for an eldelrly ply 20 footer. Not the fastest, as you say, but a very capable boat with a hull almost the same as the Deb. Have a photo somewhere, will post it if I can find it in the loft. Didnt have trouble with my keels, but there was quite a deep deadwood between the casting and the keel, and I would expect that to be qute vulnerable to serious twisting, particularly as materials started to soften and age. Also, the long bolts through the wood would be quite prone to waisting in the timber as things aged.

Did Chichester to Falmouth and back in mt Deb. Didn't feel at all silly!

 

[oldharry]

Did Chichester to Falmouth and back in mt Deb. Didn't feel at all silly!

"...elderly ply...."

 

[Lakesailor]

Lakesailor, I cannot believe what I am seeing in your picture ,even the crappiest primer should have left some sort of adhesion on the ply,but it would seem that the whole paint layer(s) have peeled off leaving totally bare wood

No guarantees on an old boat.......

 

[Madhatter]

I have now made a boat lifting rig to pick up my boat and put it on the trailer.Well pleased with the lifting rig as it is very light ( can carry it with the trailer with no problem adding a boat )and capable of lifting a 3 ton boat.

 

[oldharry]

Lakesailor, I cannot believe what I am seeing in your picture ,even the crappiest primer should have left some sort of adhesion on the ply,but it would seem that the whole paint layer(s) have peeled off leaving totally bare wood

That is what happens when rain water gets in to plywood - the first stage of rot in ply is that it blows the paint coat off. Hope your Deb is not like that - its very bad news as far as the sheeting is concerned. As Lakesailor points out - you can see where the rot has come through to the surface down the seam in the ply. The fact such a big area has come away suggests the whole sheet has become saturated under the paint, and the rot will have struck deep in to the ply internal laminations way beyond what is visible, working its way down an exposed end grain in the sheet. The moisture content even though the surface may be dry will be far too high to accept paints and glues, until it has been properly dried out.

Once it is that bad, new ply sheets are often the simplest answer, particularly where there are strong curves in the hull. I would ecxpect the strength of the damaged sheets to be well down compared to new ply.

 

[Madhatter]

The stern is my only concern at the moment

 

[Madhatter]

I have now bought:
2 x of 3ltrs each of International epoxy project kits,
IP toplac paint (loads of it),
IP precoat, "
IP bottomcoat 2.5 ltrs.
The boat will be stored under a large tent and will have heating while I am present (H+S)

 

[sandeel]

Hi Madhatter
nice to see someone else who is keen on the Tucker ply boats, I restored and still own a Mystic from the 60's, and when I started it was a good deal worse than your Deb!!
Old harry is right with the blowing ply, however you can use this to identify where rot has started, go over the boat inch by inch and ANY lifting or split paint is a clue to rot beneath,
pay particular attention to the deck area and anywhere fresh rain water has been laying, this is the killer of ply boats on the whole,they seem to rot from the top down. however don't panic!! These boats were built of really good quality BS 1088 mahogany ply and what tends to happen is the rot maybe takes hold of one or two layers, then the wood under is solid as the phenolic resin seems to hold the rot to layers. if it isn't too deep then just dig out to good wood and fill and fair with epoxy resin thickened with silica to stop sagging and maybe some fibres to give strength. if you have to replace any ply go for the best you can get, I would personally use Robbins ply, I did and it seems similar to the original specification.(most so called "marine ply" nowadays is junk).
one thing with these boats is to keep the deck dry so do get a tarpaulin on asap.Hope this has been some help.
good luck

 

[Madhatter]

snip
Hi Madhatter
nice to see someone else who is keen on the Tucker ply boats, I restored and still own a Mystic from the 60's, and ---->>

Thank you Sandeel, I have now got a plan of action thanks to all the contributions from forum members (and a lot of research re materials ).
Still need some confirmation on a few points made :-

Winged rudder spec (Seanick well his partner)

2nd skin on lower section,do I use a layer of fibreglass matting between them if so what type, if so would Carbon Fibre Multi-axial Cloth be better ( seeing as I would be doing it anyway the little extra cost would not be an issue)?.

Would a bow sprit be a sensible addition?

As I sail single handed roller reefing head sail / jib ( WANTED if any going here).

more later