Crusader sails - there is no such thing as bad press

[photodog]

Re "in this place businesses are not encouraged or even allowed to post, but that means that the business is not capable of defending itself... which clearly is not a sustainable position... "

Perhaps I am wrong but I thought there were no problems with business' posting here in relation to issues they have a connection with. I do understand that business' are not allowed to advertise but do not think they have ever been stopped from responding to issues highlighted. In fact in respect of Rocna they were allowed a dual identity to facilitate this. I have also noticed other manufacturers replying on other threads. I personally think this is a good idea as we can get both sides of the argument.
Perhaps snooks can give a definitive answer.

Some businesses do seem to contribute... but it would be good to draw up some clear guidelines... Sadly most businesses who get into social media see it as another advertising channel.... the ones who do post here seem to offer more than just advertising... but its something which needs clearing up...

 

[lustyd]

Sadly most businesses who get into social media see it as another advertising channel.... .

Social media is all about advertising. Facebook and Twitter are mostly just huge marketing databases which happen to offer a service to users. That service to users is there to allow them to update their own details in said marketing database, effectively changing the adverts they see (try adding Golf as an interest in Facebook and you'll soon see golfing holidays etc).

 

[snooks]

Perhaps snooks can give a definitive answer.

Crusader could have come on here, but they chose not to. Their choice.

Any company, or representative of a company can post on here as long as they aren't advertising their product. The definition is a bit grey because the lines between advertising, promotion and explanation can sometimes get blurred.

Eg My X is better than Y because.....yaddah yaddah yaddah. Is that advertising? Yes if it's the fist post, no if someone above said "Why is X more expensive than Y, may be if no one mentioned X but was talking about Y. So there are no definite rules, but if anyone alerts us we'll take a look.

 

[Vara]

Two hats.

The concept of a person wearing two hats regarding their function is quite common in government and the civil service, and has been the subject of many academic papers and was explored in many episodes of "Yes Minister" and "Yes Primeminister".

Snooks, I do think that you should differentiate your personal and IPC posts, not just in the sig line but in your heading.

Snooks

Snooks (admin)

Perhaps?

This would stop the scanners, like what I am from being confused or having to reread posts.

 

[photodog]

Crusader could have come on here, but they chose not to. Their choice.

Any company, or representative of a company can post on here as long as they aren't advertising their product. The definition is a bit grey because the lines between advertising, promotion and explanation can sometimes get blurred.

Eg My X is better than Y because.....yaddah yaddah yaddah. Is that advertising? Yes if it's the fist post, no if someone above said "Why is X more expensive than Y, may be if no one mentioned X but was talking about Y. So there are no definite rules, but if anyone alerts us we'll take a look.

Do you think this is sustainable?

Given that there is a clear mechanism which puts forth all the rumour and innuendo and hearsay in this place into the public domain... ie in Google... do you think that maybe there needs to be a clear mechanism for businesses to be able to have a user account?

This site has become probably the definitive social media/ reference site on the internet.... its google rankings are up there with wikipedia.....

In light of that maybe there needs to be thought given to having a formal structure for businesses to engage....

 

[Hoolie]

... ... ... Snooks, I do think that you should differentiate your personal and IPC posts, not just in the sig line but in your heading. ... ... ...

Leave Snooks alone - he's doing just fine. He doesn't need differentiating

 

[Hoolie]

... ... ....

In light of that maybe there needs to be thought given to having a formal structure for businesses to engage....

I think having a "formal structure" would not work as well as the current system. At least now decisions/views can be taken en passant. With a formal structure you'd have to think of all possible scenarios, something that few people have done successfully. An element of discretion is essential.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

+1.
Hoolie, you're right on both counts

The current arrangement works just fine and, as it ain't broke, there's no need to fix it.

Some manufacturers come along and make a useful contribution. Others come along and make prats of themselves. I can't see that any amount of rules and regulations would change that.

 

[Koeketiene]

Snooks, I do think that you should differentiate your personal and IPC posts, not just in the sig line but in your heading.

Snooks

Snooks (admin)

Perhaps?

IMO IPC employees should be a bit like The Queen on here - perfectly entitled to a personal opnion but never allowed to express it.
On the other hand, Snooks could be on here as just another forumite (that means without the power to lock or remove threads, ban forumites, etc...)

Aside from the merit of the original thread (or lack of it) it seems to me that Crusader certainly benefited from preferential treatment on the part of IPC.
Or will Snooks now step in as the knight in shining armour for any company getting flak on here? (regardless of the fact he happens to know the manager/ceo/...)

IMO, a line has been crossed here.

 

[Mark-1]

Snooks was right.

I concur. Snooks posted some facts.

The idea that Snooks might be biased is irrelvant - those e-mails were totally relevant and it doesn't matter who shared them with the forum.

I can't imagine SailBobSquarePants will be overly worried either. No doubt he hadn't seen those mails so now he knows he's going to get the outcome he wanted without going to the small claims court.

Misunderstanding cleared up, everyone's a winner, nobody's the bad guy.

Now can we all get back to the much more useful activity of attacking Snooks for inflicting the Readers' Boats Sticky on us!

 

[Mark-1]

Or will Snooks now step in as the knight in shining armour for any company getting flak on here?

I would hope he would offer any relevant facts he could get his hands on if a person or company was misrepresented in some way. I thought the e-mails sent by Crusader very useful in understanding the situation.

 

[Koeketiene]

I would hope he would offer any relevant facts he could get his hands on if a person or company was misrepresented in some way. I thought the e-mails sent by Crusader very useful in understanding the situation.

Even if he hasn't got the manager/ceo/... of that company on speed-dail?

This is not so much about the details of this case, as the setting of a precedent.
Where does it end? Where to draw the line?

 

[Mark-1]

Even if he hasn't got the manager/ceo/... of that company on speed-dail?

Yes. Facts are facts. We have a better understanding of that situation thanks to Snooks.

 

[Koeketiene]

Even if he hasn't got the manager/ceo/... of that company on speed-dail?

This is not so much about the details of this case, as the setting of a precedent.
Where does it end? Where to draw the line?

Yes. Facts are facts. We have a better understanding of that situation thanks to Snooks.

Could quickly turn into a full-time job

 

[Mark-1]

Could quickly turn into a full-time job

Sorry you're going to have to spell that point out for me. I can't imagine you would be under the impression that because Snooks has been able to offer us some useful information in one case he will now be both able and compelled to do the same in all future cases. So what do you mean?

 

[photodog]

Actually you are wrong!

If you Google Crusader Sails the first thing is their website. The second is this thread already !

SEO like this has got to be worth something...... I wonder if the OP works for Crusader?

 

[Koeketiene]

Sorry you're going to have to spell that point out for me. I can't imagine you would be under the impression that because Snooks has been able to offer us some useful information in one case he will now be both able and compelled to do the same in all future cases.

That is exactly what I mean - if he does so for Crusader, why not for everybody else?

 

[zikzik]

Paul Lees isn't a member on here, he believes the forum is for his customers, past, present and future, not "the industry".

He phoned me up and asked me to put his side of the story across.

The fact he's an advertiser had nothing to do with it, and until it was mentioned it hadn't crossed my mind.

I chose and bought - yes with my (wife's) money - our sails from Crusader, and I like others have found their service great, so I was more than happy to stick up for Paul and Crusader.

What I didn't like was for Crusader to be hauled over a barrel, be accused of stealing and lying when Paul has proof this wasn't the case, and a full refund was offered.

I would stick up for anyone, company or not, advertiser or not, the users here deserve to hear both sides of the story.

I am with PD on this. A forum is for anybody. Paul's reason for not signing up to reply himself is a bit soft I think and he has compromised Snooks a bit as a result. Mostly but not excusively because of his work connection here. But I understand why Snooks responded on his behalf.

I have twice had dealings with Cruasader, I have recently mentioned a problem using my furler with their 'magic furl' and they have offered involvement to solve it, when I can find the time. That attitude seems to be common from threads here.

 

[Bru]

Leave Snooks alone - he's doing just fine. He doesn't need differentiating

Perhaps he needs integrating then? (maths joke )

 

[Rigger Mortice]

It's outrageous isn't it?

OP comes on here complaining about a supplier and somebody from YBW has the temerity to talk to that supplier and gives us a more balanced version of the story. When will it end?

I do sometimes wonder what people will find to get upset about next.