Crusader sails - there is no such thing as bad press

[Sybarite]

FWIW, I think BlowingOldBoots made a valid point.

There is a basic principle in law : "Let right be done".

Snooks was right. Crusader may have been imprudent but were certainly not dishonest. The OP I feel went OTT.

 

[chewi]

In defence of Paul at Crusaders when I had business with him that created a disagreement (over supply of a mast) he was quite ready to refund my deposit. That was a gentlemanly conclusion to a disagreement. I wouldn't give him bad press over the way he handled the conclusion.

 

[pvb]

The OP I feel went OTT.

And now seems to have gone AWOL...

 

[lustyd]

All admirable... and of course its the journalists job to attempt to provide balance in coverage of a issue.... But I think that this goes to some wider issues that need addressing.... I am sure that you acted as a honest broker... but as I said... perception is the key, and openness is crucial in the social media to ensure this... I think you should have encouraged him to have engaged personally with his customers.... after all isnt that what a good business should do??

Not engaging with social media sites like facebook, twitter, and this place, is a mistake. Customers expect to have open communications with a company. I got our broadband fixed by engaging with BT on twitter....

Hiding behind a fan is not good practice....

They tried engaging the customer using telephones, smail mail and email. Twitter is not a suitable media to assume a company will respond to, neither is Facebook. You are right that companies who do use social media tend to give a good customer service but if you expect a swift response from a company like Crusader who are small and local then pick up the telephone and speak to them, you may be pleasantly surprised. BT on the other hand are hopeless on the phone which has forced you to use twitter - I know which company I'd rather deal with and I'm afraid my choice doesn't prove your point.

 

[snooks]

How do we know when he is acting as a individual, or when he is acting on behalf of IPC??? There needs to be clear ground between a professional role and a personal one... and part of that is recognising when a conflict of interests either will occur or may be percieved to be occuring.

Please don't talk about me like I'm not here I am a real person, people here have met me and said hello or listened to me babble on about Scotland...I have feelings too

It is very true though, you don't know.

Very little (such as anything involving the magazine or it's web based contents) is as a result of being requested to do so by anyone on the magazine.

Everything else is my point of view and opinion.

Usually when something is magazine related or admin based I'll switch off my signature...If I remember

So for that first reply I switched off my signature, for the rest of the posts I forgot I know it's confusing isn't it the technilollgy

Most of my posts are usually done while I'm waiting for my computer to process images, captions and keyword or upload images to our database, or I'm at home....and have an opinion that I just have to share

I thought about having dual identities as I usually manage to get myself in trouble by expressing an opinion that someone complains about, but hey ho that's the nature of the beast. I am who I am and my opinions are my own.

Sorry that doen't really clear things up...but just think of me as one of you, but I just happen to work here and I'm privy to lost of gossip and information that I'm not allowed to speak about

 

[sailorman]

Please don't talk about me like I'm not here I am a real person, people here have met me and said hello or listened to me babble on about Scotland...I have feelings too

It is very true though, you don't know.

Very little (such as anything involving the magazine or it's web based contents) is as a result of being requested to do so by anyone on the magazine.

Everything else is my point of view and opinion.

Usually when something is magazine related or admin based I'll switch off my signature...If I remember

So for that first reply I switched off my signature, for the rest of the posts I forgot I know it's confusing isn't it the technilollgy

Most of my posts are usually done while I'm waiting for my computer to process images, captions and keyword or upload images to our database, or I'm at home....and have an opinion that I just have to share

I thought about having dual identities as I usually manage to get myself in trouble by expressing an opinion that someone complains about, but hey ho that's the nature of the beast. I am who I am and my opinions are my own.

Sorry that doen't really clear things up...but just think of me as one of you, but I just happen to work here and I'm privy to lost of gossip and information that I'm not allowed to speak about

You have much in common with PD, he is almost papperatzie (Sp )

 

[photodog]

They tried engaging the customer using telephones, smail mail and email. Twitter is not a suitable media to assume a company will respond to, neither is Facebook. You are right that companies who do use social media tend to give a good customer service but if you expect a swift response from a company like Crusader who are small and local then pick up the telephone and speak to them, you may be pleasantly surprised. BT on the other hand are hopeless on the phone which has forced you to use twitter - I know which company I'd rather deal with and I'm afraid my choice doesn't prove your point.

Well all thats fine... but how do you prevent people from bitching about your business on any of these platforms.... ????

Its not about whats best for the company... its about what the customer wants.

If a business doesnt adapt to the changing needs of its customers.. they are stuffed... and in fact getting involved in appropriate social media is a very cost effective way of generating goodwill and value.

"Its the way of the future."

 

[lustyd]

Most of my posts are usually done while I'm waiting for my computer to process images, captions and keyword or upload images to our database

Is this photographer speak for "in the pub"? I refuse to believe that a modern computer provides that much waiting time even with large image files!

 

[awol]

And now seems to have gone AWOL...

What's it got to do with me? I have never knowingly used Crusader's sails, but I thought the ones they made for Gypsy Moth looked dreadful.

 

[lustyd]

Well all thats fine... but how do you prevent people from bitching about your business on any of these platforms.... ????

Its not about whats best for the company... its about what the customer wants.

If a business doesnt adapt to the changing needs of its customers.. they are stuffed... and in fact getting involved in appropriate social media is a very cost effective way of generating goodwill and value.

"Its the way of the future."

You don't need to prevent people doing anything on the internet - if you have a good reputation like Crusader then it stands for itself. Companies rarely come off better from arguing in forums as our old friend from Rocna so clearly demonstrated. Forums produce arguments not results - something this thread and the closed one show nicely. Several people have said that when they had an issue they called Crusader who immediately rectified the problem. Someone else tried to recify the problem by bitching on the internet and has yet to find resolution but has caused many pages of discussion. Most of this discussion is pointless (including and especially my own posts) and has added nothing to the original problem or solution.

 

[photodog]

Please don't talk about me like I'm not here I am a real person, people here have met me and said hello or listened to me babble on about Scotland...I have feelings too

No insult intended... but of course I was replying to someone else.....


You know my circumstances.. so I am sure you appreciate that there is no one hereabouts who has a better understanding of the situation....

Dont take my criticsm for anything nasty... Its a very interesting situation that we have seen on numerous occasions... (The Rocna thread for instance....) and the way that these things play out is evolving....

There may be a role for IPC to play to intervene on behalf of businesses as honest broker... that could be a good model that would also reflect well on the traditional aspects of the business... But I do feel that failing that as a formal outlet, then businesses should be encouraged to engage.. quite what the framework for this would be needs to be looked at... I thought that the one adopted in the Rocna thread was interesting, but had some flaws.

 

[pvb]

What's it got to do with me? I have never knowingly used Crusader's sails, but I thought the ones they made for Gypsy Moth looked dreadful.

 

[photodog]

if you have a good reputation like Crusader then it stands for itself. Companies rarely come off better from arguing in forums as our old friend from Rocna so clearly demonstrated. .

Yeah, the Rocna thing was interesting.....

Reputation managment is something that needs to be done actively, and in the past word of mouth and good PR were at the heart... but there is immense power in the social media... so companies need to look at that... and its not just big businesses either... its tiny businesses like mine as well.... This place has such a powerfull voice now that there needs to be a ability for companies to engage, you type in "Crusader Sails" into google in a few weeks... and these threads will come up....

How IPC manages that is a interesting thing..... how do we create a "Edited" space inside social media... IPC as the publisher have considerable risk attatched to this space... and they need to address this....

So, its not about whats right and wrong... its about reality....

 

[FullCircle]

How IPC manages that is a interesting thing..... how do we create a "Edited" space inside social media... IPC as the publisher have considerable risk attatched to this space... and they need to address this....

So, its not about whats right and wrong... its about reality....

We don't.
You can't control Internet content, so learn other strategies to deal with it.
Edited content won't turn up any content on searches which must be just as bad. Worse it gives IPC power of the button. If they fall out with XYZ next year, they can just delete all the Edited content, and no one is any the wiser.
There are loads of I hate XYZ company type sites around.

 

[bigwow]

Please don't talk about me like I'm not here I am a real person, people here have met me and said hello or listened to me babble on about Scotland...I have feelings too

Only got your word for that, to me you’re Shaun the sheep!

 

[Resolution]

Only got your word for that, to me you’re Shaun the sheep!

Sheep have feelings too, or so I am told........

 

[lustyd]

Yeah, the Rocna thing was interesting.....

Reputation managment is something that needs to be done actively, and in the past word of mouth and good PR were at the heart... but there is immense power in the social media... so companies need to look at that... and its not just big businesses either... its tiny businesses like mine as well.... This place has such a powerfull voice now that there needs to be a ability for companies to engage, you type in "Crusader Sails" into google in a few weeks... and these threads will come up....

How IPC manages that is a interesting thing..... how do we create a "Edited" space inside social media... IPC as the publisher have considerable risk attatched to this space... and they need to address this....

So, its not about whats right and wrong... its about reality....

I can see what you're saying but I don't agree. Word of mouth is working very well indeed in this situation. Using your example if you search for Crusader Sails in Google then this forum is the second link after their own site. The vast majority of posts are from very satisfied customers, and even the thread causing this debate included a majority of people with no connection defending the company. As I said, if the company has a good reputation it doesn't need to defend itself. Those companies where many people have bad experiences might need to defend themselves - it is these companies that are to be avoided, if they are quick to defend it means that they are good at defense. Take megastore for an example - there are so many examples of bad customer service it's amazing that anyone ever shops there but they are (apparently) very quick with customer service responses such as out of stock etc. but rarely get a satisfactory conclusion.

You mention your own small business, I mean no offence by this but if you find yourself defending that business on social media often then you should question why and change the business to stop the issues rather than argue back.

 

[photodog]

We don't.
You can't control Internet content, so learn other strategies to deal with it.
Edited content won't turn up any content on searches which must be just as bad. Worse it gives IPC power of the button. If they fall out with XYZ next year, they can just delete all the Edited content, and no one is any the wiser.
There are loads of I hate XYZ company type sites around.

I think you misinterpet me a bit there... I am not talking about "edited" content in the traditional sense... I am actually talking about the "Other strategies" in effect... in this place businesses are not encouraged or even allowed to post, but that means that the business is not capable of defending itself... which clearly is not a sustainable position...

1) It opens IPC up to legal liabilities over content which they are not the authors of.
2) It encourages businesses to attempt to manipulate the content or message through means that are unclear.... (ergo have a member of staff at the service provider insert content).. the nature of the system means its open to abuse, but not allowing the business to post openly positivley encourages the use of subterfuge for advancing a message...

The flip side is that allowing businesses to post, poses a threat to the companies advertising model... and can be intrusive for normal members.


BUT Facebook, twitter, and all the normal platforms encourage businesses to engage...

So, we need to face up to the fact that there needs to be content provided by "parties with a interest"... when I talk about "Edited Space" its about ensuring that the mechanisms are right to provide balance and to allow messages that reflect these interests to be heard.... a newspaper or magazine article is a edited space that does that (In theory..).... and clearly to get the balance right, this needs to become a type of "Edited Space" as well.... not in the traditional sense, but in having mechanisms in place to allow "parties with interests" to take part in debate... If for no other reason than to limit IPC liabilities...

 

[jordanbasset]

Re "in this place businesses are not encouraged or even allowed to post, but that means that the business is not capable of defending itself... which clearly is not a sustainable position... "

Perhaps I am wrong but I thought there were no problems with business' posting here in relation to issues they have a connection with. I do understand that business' are not allowed to advertise but do not think they have ever been stopped from responding to issues highlighted. In fact in respect of Rocna they were allowed a dual identity to facilitate this. I have also noticed other manufacturers replying on other threads. I personally think this is a good idea as we can get both sides of the argument.
Perhaps snooks can give a definitive answer.

 

[photodog]

You mention your own small business, I mean no offence by this but if you find yourself defending that business on social media often then you should question why and change the business to stop the issues rather than argue back.

I dont disagree with that sentiment.... but no business is perfect, and as we have seen here there can be issues.... if you can build a perfect business that will never attract criticsm then you should do so!

I have not had to go onto social networking sites and defend my business... I have however had to take robust legal action to have material pulled off of social networking sites that were the result of a malicious mentally unstable idiot...in fact I am aware of malicious content that I need to tackle as we speak... so its not something that can be ignored. Ignoring feedback from customers is not something that a business can do any longer... and even a excellent business will attract malicious content... Its something you can expect, if not from nutters, from your competition.

The social media gives a voice to every nutjob, malcontent, and disenfranchised ex-employee or jealous competitor.... immense damage can be done, if a business relies nowadays on traditional word of mouth they leave themselves exposed.