Cornish Crabber 24

[Nigelb]

Is there an owner or someone familiar with the Cornish Crabber 24 performance on the Forum?

I am interested in typical sail plan and hull speed, points of sail etc. given a particular wind speed.

At what wind speed do you typically use staysail only and when do you normally take the 1st reef etc.

Given the standard engine and prop. configuration what is the typical range under power, cruising rpm and speed etc.

Anyone familiar with the class?

thanks.

 

[Plum]

Is there an owner or someone familiar with the Cornish Crabber 24 performance on the Forum?

I am interested in typical sail plan and hull speed, points of sail etc. given a particular wind speed.

At what wind speed do you typically use staysail only and when do you normally take the 1st reef etc.

Given the standard engine and prop. configuration what is the typical range under power, cruising rpm and speed etc.

Anyone familiar with the class?

thanks.

If you look here CORNISH CRABBERS at the bottom of that page are two links to magazine reviews of the Crabber 24. Are you a member of the OGA, the Association for Gaff Rig Sailing? If so, check out their boat register at OGA - Browse the Register and you will be able to get in touch with members who have one.

www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[LittleSister]

I've sailed an early one, GRP hull and, IIRC, wooden deck etc., but not enough to answer your detailed questions. (I sailed it a few times with the owner, and was then lent it for a 2 week holiday.)

I felt it sailed rather nicely. It's obviously no greyhound but that suited me (and my friend, the owner). I had no problem either beating to windward, nor making progress in very light airs. They seem to have a good sailing reputation, and I've seen pics of them under sail in quite challenging conditions.

The only downsides for me that I can recall were that the centreboard banging under sail irritated me a bit, and the accommodation was very limited in height - sitting headroom only (I'm quite tall), though some more recent models have a raised cabin top and more headroom.

That particular boat was fitted with a Sabb big single cylinder diesel. I doubt that many were, and even fewer would still have them. I can't remember now the power of that engine (probably modest) but it seemed adequate to me. It handled better under power, including manoeuvring in tight spaces, than many of the other older style boats I have owned or sailed. According to PBO those early models were often fitted with Yanmar 8hp or Sole 9hp engines.

I recall a Forum member (the blind sailor) had another fairly early Crabber and loved it, but his wife didn't because of the lack of space and creature comforts. He sold it for a much bigger motor-sailer to accommodate his wife's preferences, but always regretted parting with the Crabber and was at one stage, I think, contemplating buying it back again.

Practical Boat Owner's'Which Boat' said of those early Crabbers:
FOR- Tough construction. Quality finish. Shoal draft. Good deck space. Attention to detail.
AGAINST- Traditional style interior short of headroom and lounging space. Weather helm when hard pressed.

 

[Channel Sailor]

I used to own a 1994 version for a few years, quite some time ago. I think it would help if you know which version. Mine was the long heavy keel, lower freeboard version which possibly sailed better upwind than later versions with higher cabin top and rails. It was a lovely looking yacht, especially under full sail on a reach. Strongly built too. Mine had the aluminium mast rig, which again I would guess sails quite differently to the gaff rigged version. Mine had 10 year old sails, so the sailing performance had probably lost its edge a little. They were a quite a soft feeling fabric. The PBO review, I think can be still purchased, that was produced when the yacht was first available would probably be a good reference for sailing performance. Mine I think had two reefs for the mainsail, single line reefing and back to the cockpit. It worked well with hi tech Smaller diameter lines. I think it had a 3rd slab reef as well, roved in when required. Mainsail reefing was really easy. The staysail and jib were on furlers, not reefing. Either they were fully out or fully furled. The furlers were not particularly good, drums were too small when used in windy conditions. Possibly this was one of the reasons for having a storm jib because furling the jib in F5? was so difficult. I vaguely recall the yacht could be sailed upwind with the rail in the water and those in the cockpit would be secure, but the weather helm, leeway and overloaded sail controls are what showed that a reef was needed. I would guess new decent sails,for example cut to suit the jib stay sag, would have helped keep the helm better balanced, so one could hang onto sails longer.

I sailed it solo or two on board. You get used to pulling in the jib and staysail sheet together in one fist, very easy and quick.

Something else I remember was that going upwind under sail the progress could be almost brought to standstill by what I call the short Solent Chop. When offshore this was not an issue. I think the reason this happened was two fold. First, the sails were probably old/blown or poor design so they did not create the necessary power to accelerate the boat back up to speed. 2nd reason could be was that on a yacht like this one the crew are not prepared to use all the sail shape controls to have the right shape for the right moment. For example with mine I do not recall at the time adjusting Mainsail Foot tension, luff tensions, kicker, jib or staysail turning block positions or backstay tension. if I had known what to do at the time maybe I could have got a more consistent performance.

I recall the gaff rigged version was much better downwind. if I had kept mine longer i would have investigated adding a downwind sail of somekind. This was because mine was frustrating to sail downwind with foresail blanketed And nowhere near enough sail area available. I had a storm jib made for mine, because it was such a secure yacht in rough weather that I needed a sail for it. I knew of a gaff rigged version that sailed around Britain. With a previous owner my yacht accidentally had a spell in the Portland Race, which it came out of with just frightened crew.

i suspect the lighter weight 1gm10 engine i think would be a better choice than a 2gm20 version because it would not lower the stern quite so much which meant she sits better on her lines. However the extra power of the bigger engine was very useful. Suggest you consider engine cabin noise levels and vibration when deciding normal cruising speeds. The 2gm20 is well known for having both sweet spots and Rev speeds to avoid. The 1gm10 I think is generally smoother. Engine noise on mine was quite high if you wanted to motor for say 8 hours. As is commonly known, the 2gm20 on a 3.5t boat would use typically about 1.5 litres per hours. This I think is what I got, except when heavily fouled when it once increased to maybe 2 litres per hour. I vaguely recall I once motored for 60-70 miles. With the 14hp engine I think the max speed was surprisingly high for a small yacht, possibly over 6kts, it is a while ago but I think in engine I cruised at between 4,5 and 5.2kts. But the 14 hp engine was probably not working very hard at those speeds. Faster cruise speed to pop in and out of harbours I think was 5.6kts. Mine had a big three blade prop which was excellent for marina berthing, Forward control for berthing was good. Going astern as you would expect for a long keel was trickier, but more predictable than others with long keels have reported. Once it had a little way on it astern then the rudder had control. When berthing the keel had good grip on the tide. With a bow sprit out the front clearly the wind plays a factor with berthing, the yacht did tend to weather cock pointing downwind, which I used to it’s advantage.

 

[Nigelb]

Many thanks for the two references, looks like hull speed is 6/7kts and I can expect to cruise comfortably at 5kts under engine or sail at F3. I have tried to register with owners forum but have not received validation email so will try again.

If you look here CORNISH CRABBERS at the bottom of that page are two links to magazine reviews of the Crabber 24. Are you a member of the OGA, the Association for Gaff Rig Sailing? If so, check out their boat register at OGA - Browse the Register and you will be able to get in touch with members who have one.

www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

s,

 

[Nigelb]

I used to own a 1994 version for a few years, quite some time ago. I think it would help if you know which version. Mine was the long heavy keel, lower freeboard version which possibly sailed better upwind than later versions with higher cabin top and rails. It was a lovely looking yacht, especially under full sail on a reach. Strongly built too. Mine had the aluminium mast rig, which again I would guess sails quite differently to the gaff rigged version. Mine had 10 year old sails, so the sailing performance had probably lost its edge a little. They were a quite a soft feeling fabric. The PBO review, I think can be still purchased, that was produced when the yacht was first available would probably be a good reference for sailing performance. Mine I think had two reefs for the mainsail, single line reefing and back to the cockpit. It worked well with hi tech Smaller diameter lines. I think it had a 3rd slab reef as well, roved in when required. Mainsail reefing was really easy. The staysail and jib were on furlers, not reefing. Either they were fully out or fully furled. The furlers were not particularly good, drums were too small when used in windy conditions. Possibly this was one of the reasons for having a storm jib because furling the jib in F5? was so difficult. I vaguely recall the yacht could be sailed upwind with the rail in the water and those in the cockpit would be secure, but the weather helm, leeway and overloaded sail controls are what showed that a reef was needed. I would guess new decent sails,for example cut to suit the jib stay sag, would have helped keep the helm better balanced, so one could hang onto sails longer.

I sailed it solo or two on board. You get used to pulling in the jib and staysail sheet together in one fist, very easy and quick.

Something else I remember was that going upwind under sail the progress could be almost brought to standstill by what I call the short Solent Chop. When offshore this was not an issue. I think the reason this happened was two fold. First, the sails were probably old/blown or poor design so they did not create the necessary power to accelerate the boat back up to speed. 2nd reason could be was that on a yacht like this one the crew are not prepared to use all the sail shape controls to have the right shape for the right moment. For example with mine I do not recall at the time adjusting Mainsail Foot tension, luff tensions, kicker, jib or staysail turning block positions or backstay tension. if I had known what to do at the time maybe I could have got a more consistent performance.

I recall the gaff rigged version was much better downwind. if I had kept mine longer i would have investigated adding a downwind sail of somekind. This was because mine was frustrating to sail downwind with foresail blanketed And nowhere near enough sail area available. I had a storm jib made for mine, because it was such a secure yacht in rough weather that I needed a sail for it. I knew of a gaff rigged version that sailed around Britain. With a previous owner my yacht accidentally had a spell in the Portland Race, which it came out of with just frightened crew.

i suspect the lighter weight 1gm10 engine i think would be a better choice than a 2gm20 version because it would not lower the stern quite so much which meant she sits better on her lines. However the extra power of the bigger engine was very useful. Suggest you consider engine cabin noise levels and vibration when deciding normal cruising speeds. The 2gm20 is well known for having both sweet spots and Rev speeds to avoid. The 1gm10 I think is generally smoother. Engine noise on mine was quite high if you wanted to motor for say 8 hours. As is commonly known, the 2gm20 on a 3.5t boat would use typically about 1.5 litres per hours. This I think is what I got, except when heavily fouled when it once increased to maybe 2 litres per hour. I vaguely recall I once motored for 60-70 miles. With the 14hp engine I think the max speed was surprisingly high for a small yacht, possibly over 6kts, it is a while ago but I think in engine I cruised at between 4,5 and 5.2kts. But the 14 hp engine was probably not working very hard at those speeds. Faster cruise speed to pop in and out of harbours I think was 5.6kts. Mine had a big three blade prop which was excellent for marina berthing, Forward control for berthing was good. Going astern as you would expect for a long keel was trickier, but more predictable than others with long keels have reported. Once it had a little way on it astern then the rudder had control. When berthing the keel had good grip on the tide. With a bow sprit out the front clearly the wind plays a factor with berthing, the yacht did tend to weather cock pointing downwind, which I used to it’s advantage.

Thanks for taking the time to respond with such a detailed account. I am encouraged that the hull speed is so good for such a small boat, I was worried that the cruising speed would be significantly slower than what I am used to. Interesting that you mention the Solent Chop, I know they have a good reputation as a seaworthy boat but I was concerned that any sea would impede progress given the size and low displacement. Again 1.5L per hour at 5kts is just the sort of detail I was looking for. Many thanks.

 

[Plum]

I assume you are referring to the current model Crabber 24 designed by Andrew Wolstenholme and not the original version designed by Roger Dongray first launched on the 1970s, they are very different.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[Channel Sailor]

Cruising at consistently 5kts under sail I would say optimistic. It needs a good F4 breeze to really get going. Typical days I sailed it was fine weather Unfortunately I sold my log books with the yacht inventory so cannot tell you about average passage times. Maybe someone who owns one now will have better in for. I vaguely recall the 1st reef in the main was upper end of a F4 And furling the staysail soon after that. The gaff version I’ll guess could reef the Staysail a little later.

I read somewhere the 10hp engine top speed was5.5kts.

 

[Nigelb]

I assume you are referring to the current model Crabber 24 designed by Andrew Wolstenholme and not the original version designed by Roger Dongray first launched on the 1970s, they are very different.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

Yes, I am interested in the 2000 vintage!

 

[Nigelb]

Cruising at consistently 5kts under sail I would say optimistic. It needs a good F4 breeze to really get going. Typical days I sailed it was fine weather Unfortunately I sold my log books with the yacht inventory so cannot tell you about average passage times. Maybe someone who owns one now will have better in for. I vaguely recall the 1st reef in the main was upper end of a F4 And furling the staysail soon after that. The gaff version I’ll guess could reef the Staysail a little later.

I read somewhere the 10hp engine top speed was5.5kts.

That is interesting, I had assumed the staysail would be used as a traditional heavy weather headsail and you would furl the jib first in terms of a sail plan as the wind picks up. I guess this might increase the weather helm as they are known to be heavy.

 

[[178529]]

Many thanks for the two references, looks like hull speed is 6/7kts and I can expect to cruise comfortably at 5kts under engine or sail at F3. I have tried to register with owners forum but have not received validation email so will try again.


s,

It might have a theoretical hull speed of that but think you should bank on passage planning assuming 4 to 4.5 knots.