CopperCoat vs Copper-Tek

[Elessar]

For what You May Care:
I applied CC in summer 2006 to my 40 footer underside. Done on a one month old boat.
Unfortunatly since then my sailing habits had to change (NOT as a result of CC application), and the boat stays moored for more than 6 months in a clean water/nutriment rich marina.

Results? A coat of sand/slime and other INORGANIC material deposits on the hull (no treatment would inhibit this), onto which some small algae and then mussels grow; a few barnacles can find their way, too.
BUT I just lift the boat around 9 am, while the boys at the yard clean the hull with the water pressure jet, I change the zincs, grease the propeller and, presto, by 11.00 she is in the water again.

Next spring I'll give it a run with the fine sander and seee if it goes to the 10 year life span.

Satisfied? Yes. Why? Saved a lot of planning and coordination to have the hull job done. Saved some euros of paint? Probably, but that would not be the main issue in suggesting the product.


Of course, no affiliation whatsoever with CC or any distributor.

Glad you're happy.

As ken suggests though, don't abrade for the sake of it.
You might need to after 6 or 7 years (or more) but only if the perfomance drops off, otherwise if it ain't broke etc.

One bloke at the show said he abraded his every year and evetually wore through it. Even that took 13 years though........

 

[gianenrico]

Glad you're happy.

As ken suggests though, don't abrade for the sake of it.
You might need to after 6 or 7 years (or more) but only if the perfomance drops off, otherwise if it ain't broke etc.

One bloke at the show said he abraded his every year and evetually wore through it. Even that took 13 years though........

Well, actually the edge of the rudder as well as a couple of spots 8the skeg attachment, etc.) show a little "white" : I was thinking of a light sanding and one coat of CC.

Comments?
Many TKS

 

[Elessar]

Well, actually the edge of the rudder as well as a couple of spots 8the skeg attachment, etc.) show a little "white" : I was thinking of a light sanding and one coat of CC.

Comments?
Many TKS

100 grit the areas to give a key and 4 thin coats, a little 4" roller will do for small patches.
Always 4, even over the top of coppercoat. 1 just comes out matt, the 4 blend together.
Same for scratches and damage. You can get a 1/2 litre kit for touch ups that covers about a metre and a half to 2 square metres (at 4 coats).
Don't use a brush unless a roller is completely impossible, and if you do burnish well when dry to expose the copper. Brushes make the copper sink into the epoxy so it will stay brown if not exposed.

 

[pappaecho]

Having posted about the wed growing after 3 months in the water, i did a number of things before spending the time and money to apply the 5 coats.

Firstly I talked to a number of people who said it worked well.
Secondly i checked with the makers about the application. This was on top of 5 coats of Gelshield 200 which was applied over the winter and was pristine.

We applied the 5 coats of Coppercoat with a daytime air temperature in March at between 16 to 18 degrees C. It was dry and sunny and the surfac was clean and dry. each coat was applied when the previous coat was still tacky and strictly in accordance with the makers instructions.

It clearly does not work. What did I do wrong??

 

[Elessar]

Having posted about the wed growing after 3 months in the water, i did a number of things before spending the time and money to apply the 5 coats.

Firstly I talked to a number of people who said it worked well.
Secondly i checked with the makers about the application. This was on top of 5 coats of Gelshield 200 which was applied over the winter and was pristine.

We applied the 5 coats of Coppercoat with a daytime air temperature in March at between 16 to 18 degrees C. It was dry and sunny and the surfac was clean and dry. each coat was applied when the previous coat was still tacky and strictly in accordance with the makers instructions.

It clearly does not work. What did I do wrong??

I've already answered this above. I didn't sell you the CopperCoat or apply it but even so I offered to come and see it to check it for you as you're not too far away.
Yet you have to have another dig on the forum.
There is probably nothing wrong with your CopperCoat but there is with your approach.......
BTW I no longer wish to come and help, because you probably wont listen to what I have to say.

 

[Lady Campanula]

May I try this from a different direction?

I have a modest 30y.o.long-keeler sitting on a cradle, and it'll be there for some months. The u/w sections are coated with a powder-blue 'soft' antifouling ( stains hands blue on touching ) but there are certainly numerous spots that will need a/f attention before launching.

I'm musing about the respective merits of light-abrading-and-overcoating with fresh-antifoul-paint versus stripping off and new-application-of-Coppercoat.

Who'd like to start...?

 

[fireball]

Ok - time to come out .... so to speak ...

Earlier this year we had a little rally over to the IOW - nothing challenging! Been in the water for 9months from the last scrub&touch up and was quite weedy again ...
Anyway - went to clear the log (raymarine st60) and the whole fitting turned ... not good! Checked a bit later and there was a reasonable amount of water in that compartment - so obviously leaking a little bit - but not enough to sink us!

Decision had to be made as to how to fix this - we could just dry out on piles - but what if the fitting breaks. So next option is to lift out - Sealift2 is an option - but a pita if the fitting breaks as we'd effectively close their operation until water tight - so onto a marina for lift out ... well - if we're lifting out we can sort the a/f at the same time ...

As Mark says above - lift out/in is a significant proportion of the cost and we'd still have to buy and apply the a/f - so, we contact Mark and get a price for coppercoat - including stripping back the old a/f and blasting the keel ...

The time ashore will give us enough time to fix the skin fitting and even replace if necessary as well as replacing the anodes ... it's at a bad time for sailing (early summer) - but that's good for coppercoating and with a leaking skin fitting I don't want to leave it on the water.

Well - we've been coppercoated for 2 months now - and just starting to get some slime which just needs a good sail in rough weather to shift - my neighbours on adjacent moorings are looking exceedingly green with weed so seems to have been a bad year for fouling and that's across a range of A/Fs including some racing ones ...
We should just have to dry out, wash off and sail away again next year - reducing the requirement for expensive lift outs and purchasing paint that doesn't work for long anyway.

Would I choose Copper-tek over Coppercoat? If applying it myself then possibly - if there was a significant price difference - but as Mark said - you'd have to be an idiot to choose an un-proven product against a proven one at the same price.

Would I apply a copper coat myself? Probably not - eroding AF gets replaced every year and the price of the paint doesn't justify pro application - but a copper coat is more expensive and should last significantly longer (7+ years) - whilst I could "slap it on" and hope I think I'm better off getting a pro to apply it - who's had time to build up experience and knowledge of the product.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Just a comment.

I'm Coppercoated; my pontoon partner isn't.

I'm clean, he has hanging gardens to rival Babylon. No idea what a/f he used.

Next season he will have to lift, clean, prepare and repaint.

I'll go up in the Sealift for an anode change (or I might get a diver to do it).

That's a great result AFAIC.

 

[EwanClark]

Coppercoat

In response to Pappaecho, if you need advice on your Coppercoat treatment please do feel free to contact us direct - we are here to help! While this forum is a good source of general information on a variety of topics, for specialist information on Coppercoat please do ask us (the manufacturers).

It sounds as though your application was good, and that plenty of copper has been applied. Consequently it is likely that all is required is for the copper to be exposed. By lightly burnishing the surface with fine wet-and-dry paper you will remove the outer most layer of epoxy and expose the copper held within. This will enable rapid production of cuprous oxide to start, and this will increase the potency of the product.

Remember, Coppercoat increases in potency as the months and years pass. This is because the resin slowly breaks down, releasing more copper. Consequently, and as an example, a 5 year old treatment of Coppercoat is even more effective than a 5 day old treatment. Of course, this is in complete contrast to a traditional anti-foul paint, that starts at full strength and fades in effectiveness as the months drift by.

I trust this advice proves useful but do please contact us direct for any addtional assistance required.

Ewan Clark.

Aquarius Marine Coatings Ltd.
www.coppercoat.com

 

[Sans Bateau]

Another YES vote for Coppercoat. There is loads of positive comment (OK some negative as well) on the forum about this product. If you search you will find a very long post I produced about DIY application.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I have a 1989 Moody 31 Mk 2 and I have several times considered CopperCoat. however, it is my understanding that the hull needs to be as dry as possible before the CopperCoat is applied. I've been advised that the following would be a good procedure:

1) Lift out and and soda blast the hull to remove existing antifouling. Primer on cast iron fin keel, which might need additional cleaning and filling.
2) Leave under cover for several months for the hull to dry out.
3) Apply CopperCoat (according to instructions, of course!)

1) would be at the end of the season; 3) before relaunch. Capricious has no sign of osmosis or any other problems related to a wet hull.

Any comments on the costs/benefits/success ratio of applying CopperCoat to an older boat? I know that ideally it is applied to new hulls.

 

[maby]

I have a 1989 Moody 31 Mk 2 and I have several times considered CopperCoat. however, it is my understanding that the hull needs to be as dry as possible before the CopperCoat is applied. I've been advised that the following would be a good procedure:

1) Lift out and and soda blast the hull to remove existing antifouling. Primer on cast iron fin keel, which might need additional cleaning and filling.
2) Leave under cover for several months for the hull to dry out.
3) Apply CopperCoat (according to instructions, of course!)

1) would be at the end of the season; 3) before relaunch. Capricious has no sign of osmosis or any other problems related to a wet hull.

Any comments on the costs/benefits/success ratio of applying CopperCoat to an older boat? I know that ideally it is applied to new hulls.

I'm pretty sure CopperCoat is water based and hence not too badly affected by some dampness in the hull...

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I'm pretty sure CopperCoat is water based and hence not too badly affected by some dampness in the hull...

I think the point was not to seal too much water into the hull.

 

[maby]

I think the point was not to seal too much water into the hull.

I guess that's also true, and the boat will not suffer for being given a good long time to dry out followed by several coats of epoxy, but the owner may - we've only been without a boat for four weeks and we're already going stir crazy! Three weeks and counting - impatiently!

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

I am intrigued and almost convinced. Any experience of how well it would perform in the Mediterranean?

 

[nimbusgb]

In the 3 yards at Preveza there must be 50 boats with copper coated bottoms.

Most are coppercoat, some are an Italian formulation and one I watched being done with stuff marked up in German.

Everyone I have spoken too swears by the stuff. ( Copper powder in epoxy )

If you are dry sailing there cannot be a better solution especially if you are doing 3 or 4 months in the water and the rest out. Normal antifoul won't put up with that sort of treatment and being in the water for that long you need some sort of protection.

I got to know one owner who's coppercoat was about 7 years old and he was really chuffed with it.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

In the 3 yards at Preveza there must be 50 boats with copper coated bottoms.

Most are coppercoat, some are an Italian formulation and one I watched being done with stuff marked up in German.

Everyone I have spoken too swears by the stuff. ( Copper powder in epoxy )

If you are dry sailing there cannot be a better solution especially if you are doing 3 or 4 months in the water and the rest out. Normal antifoul won't put up with that sort of treatment and being in the water for that long you need some sort of protection.

I got to know one owner who's coppercoat was about 7 years old and he was really chuffed with it.

That's reassuring, thanks.

My boats does not 'dry-sail'. In fact, my other boat (now for sale) has been in the water for three and a half years now. I used to have a supply of the AF that is used by oil-tankers (Ecoloflex) but now that source is no more - it was not legal anyway.

The new (to me) one has been in the water for some eight years now and the previous owner (late) used to get a diver to scrub the hull each summer. He used to use an Italian AF called "EVEN" by Veneziani and he swore by it. It seemed to work but is now mostly gone. Since the cost of lift-outs has now gone drastically up I am looking for other solutions, hence the interest in copper. Water temperature and salinity are higher here, as you know; it is still 27C and we're already almost in October. Coppercoat seems to be the way to go.

 

[sarabande]

Remember, Coppercoat increases in potency as the months and years pass. This is because the resin slowly breaks down, releasing more copper. Consequently, and as an example, a 5 year old treatment of Coppercoat is even more effective than a 5 day old treatment. Of course, this is in complete contrast to a traditional anti-foul paint, that starts at full strength and fades in effectiveness as the months drift by.

I regret to say that I cannot understand this mechanism as described - even though I am convinced about the principle. Is the resin any different from other resins, in that it somehow purposefully degrades ? When you say "releases more copper", is the copper/resin layer stronger in the underlying layers ?


I'd really like a more detailed explanation please.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

I regret to say that I cannot understand this mechanism as described - even though I am convinced about the principle. Is the resin any different from other resins, in that it somehow purposefully degrades ? When you say "releases more copper", is the copper/resin layer stronger in the underlying layers ?


I'd really like a more detailed explanation please.

I understood it to be in the sense of 'exposes more (i.e., fresh) copper that would then be oxidised, thus replacing that which has been washed away / depleted'...but, of course, I could be wrong.

 

[tcm]

a friend tried all sorts of paints etc with copper powder, painted lumps of grp etc and left them in seawater - and they all worked fine. Even exterior Dulux with copper powder mixed in - worked fine. Although of course that won't be as bomb solid.

I don't think there's any particular magical ingredient - it's a load of copper and some epoxy. For a top coat I doubled the amount of copper - and that worked fine too. Anothert time i didn't have the coppercoat epoxy - so i used some other two-part, made up a litre, mixed in 2kg of copper, and again, it's worked fine. I rollered it, but for touchup i have used a brush.

First year i didn't abrade and it *mostly* worked fine - you want it hard as heck to run a sander over it - second year there were some patches of brown (in other words, it wasnt oxidising and hence not really resisting the custacean growth) so I abraded - it needed a 40grit to have any effect.

But the whole point about copper+epoxy coatings is that they resist crusatcean growth - they don't particularly resist weed growth. So i can grow a hanging garden, no problem, esp in hot carib sea. However, a second great thing about epoxy coating (such as copperbot) is that you have a very hard hull coating - so if there is slime on the thing, jetblasting s quick and leaves the greeny surface again. Or, diving and scraping is also fine.

The boat isn't in one place too long - about 9000nm a year between carib and med.

I bet the new stuff will be fine, but yeah, it's a risk if you're the first. Although on your boat - you're always the first.

The surface has to be really well abraded - a white hull with the shiny gel knocked off. You can't do this without commercial grade tools, although you can reduce the work needed to actually sand the thing to a useable surface - stuff such as removall610 will get the bulk of the old crud paint off.