CopperCoat vs Copper-Tek

[Plevier]

Seriously considering one of these.
There appears to be little difference. Both use the same amount of copper and I am told it is to the same spec from the same supplier. (One of them told me a batch had been delivered to him from the manufacturer addressed to the other.)
The resin is a bit different - Copper-Tek is solvent free and a bit slower drying.
Copper-Tek has quite a price advantage.
Anyone have experience of Copper-Tek please?

As a sideline, they both talk about the "Branley Effect" whereby their copper is non-conductive. I can find nothing about the "Branley Effect" or Eduard Branley on the net. Anyone got any references please?

Copper-Tek is from the same people as CuNiGuard but I don't want to cover the boat with manhole covers as per recent thread on this

 

[Colvic Watson]

How much were you quoted and for what boat?

 

[Plevier]

Materials only (with keel primer, rollers etc) £360 and £260 in round numbers.
SIBS special.
6L in both cases.

CORRECTION - sorry memory failing - actually £470 against £360.

 

[EwanClark]

Coppercoat

I must point out that there significant differences between our well-proven product Coppercoat and the recently launched CopperTek exhibited at the Boat Show. Our copper suppliers have confirmed that they have not supplied our copper to this other company, so I have to say that I do doubt the accuracy of the information mentioned in the opening post.

As many readers will know, we launched our product in 1991 since which time we estimate that some 40,000 boats worldwide have benefitted from using Coppercoat. Since this time several companies have tried to copy it, but without success. Products such as Copp-R-Bot, Royal Copper, Cupro-FF, CopperGuard and various others have all arrived, failed, and been discontinued. Simply adding copper to epoxy is not the way to make a lasting and effective anti-foul!!!

Whether this new "imitation Coppercoat" will work for a decade or not is unknown at this time as such long term tests are yet to be undertaken. Maybe a brave reader will pay the money and post their findings on here come 2021. By which time it is possible that the first Coppercoat treatments may still be performing well at 30 years old. Fingers crossed!!!

Ewan Clark
Aquarius Marine Coatings Ltd
(manufacturer of Coppercoat)

 

[Plevier]

I must point out that there significant differences between our well-proven product Coppercoat and the recently launched CopperTek exhibited at the Boat Show.

Hello Ewan

Full marks for a quick and restrained reply! However it does really fall into the standard "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" approach of established leaders faced with new competition. Yes Copper-Tek might not be as good - but do you actually have evidence of that? It might be as good (or better).

Can you explain these "significant differences" any more please to convince me the 30% price premium is justified? Can you say anything technical?

Any refs on this "Branley Effect" please? Curiosity fired on that one!

Thank you.

 

[Plevier]

Please note correction to my earlier post - prices were £470 and £360 for 6 litres plus extras, not £360 and £260 as I said.

Surprised Ewan from CopperCoat didn't notice my error - or would you do it for £360?

 

[Elessar]

Seriously considering one of these.
There appears to be little difference. Both use the same amount of copper and I am told it is to the same spec from the same supplier. (One of them told me a batch had been delivered to him from the manufacturer addressed to the other.)
The resin is a bit different - Copper-Tek is solvent free and a bit slower drying.
Copper-Tek has quite a price advantage.
Anyone have experience of Copper-Tek please?

As a sideline, they both talk about the "Branley Effect" whereby their copper is non-conductive. I can find nothing about the "Branley Effect" or Eduard Branley on the net. Anyone got any references please?

Copper-Tek is from the same people as CuNiGuard but I don't want to cover the boat with manhole covers as per recent thread on this

Like Ewan, I must declare an interest.

First as a boat owner, I put it on my boat, DIY, when I had a corporate job.

Now I have a marine business, we apply CopperCoat. Loads of it.

I'm free to apply any coating, but only use CopperCoat. Why? Because I am liable for the products I sell.
Ewan has already listed some of the pretenders that have been failed and gone. Faults may not show until the next lift out and so I may have painted a few hundred more boats. Putting that lot right would take my company out.

Of course copper-tek is cheaper, as only a raving lunatic would not use the proven product if it was the same price.

But is it much cheaper? Professionally applied on a second hand boat, the materials cost about a third of the bill. Account for the lift and it's about a quarter. So even if it was half the price of CopperCoat, you only save an eighth.
And actually the published price is the same as the CopperCoat show deal price. The saving is therefore minimal.

If you're doing it DIY and trying to save every penny, and only have to worry about one boat, is it worth the risk then? Just remember that removing an epoxy is very very difficult and time consuming. It can't be blasted off.

If you are try to save those pennies and considering taking the risk I would at the very least ask for the names and contact details of people who actually have the product on their boat. And see what they say.

And if you are trying to save every penny remember that CopperCoat is proven, over decades, to save money.

 

[lenseman]

. . . . . As a sideline, they both talk about the "Branley Effect" whereby their copper is non-conductive. I can find nothing about the "Branley Effect" or Eduard Branley on the net. Anyone got any references please?
. . . . .

I think your reference is loosely coupled to Edouard Branly and his work on copper particles back in the 1800's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Édouard_Branly

Hope this helps?

 

[pappaecho]

Before you pay out good money, come and see the weed growing on my boat - coppercoated over the winter, launched June this year

 

[herbsut]

I've had Coppercoat (or the earlier named version of same stuff) on my boat for the last 10 years and it is still v effective.

 

[Plevier]

I think your reference is loosely coupled to Edouard Branly and his work on copper particles back in the 1800's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Édouard_Branly

Hope this helps?

Thank you. Must be the same fellow I'm sure but rather different from what was said.

 

[Plevier]

Like Ewan, I must declare an interest.

First as a boat owner, I put it on my boat, DIY, when I had a corporate job.

Now I have a marine business, we apply CopperCoat. Loads of it.

I'm free to apply any coating, but only use CopperCoat. Why? Because I am liable for the products I sell.
Ewan has already listed some of the pretenders that have been failed and gone. Faults may not show until the next lift out and so I may have painted a few hundred more boats. Putting that lot right would take my company out.

Of course copper-tek is cheaper, as only a raving lunatic would not use the proven product if it was the same price.

But is it much cheaper? Professionally applied on a second hand boat, the materials cost about a third of the bill. Account for the lift and it's about a quarter. So even if it was half the price of CopperCoat, you only save an eighth.
And actually the published price is the same as the CopperCoat show deal price. The saving is therefore minimal.

If you're doing it DIY and trying to save every penny, and only have to worry about one boat, is it worth the risk then? Just remember that removing an epoxy is very very difficult and time consuming. It can't be blasted off.

If you are try to save those pennies and considering taking the risk I would at the very least ask for the names and contact details of people who actually have the product on their boat. And see what they say.

And if you are trying to save every penny remember that CopperCoat is proven, over decades, to save money.

Do you find it works well to categorise potential customers as "raving lunatics"? Interesting approach to marketing.

 

[Elessar]

Do you find it works well to categorise potential customers as "raving lunatics"? Interesting approach to marketing.

I didn't. Those who would choose an un proven product over a proven one with no other advantage clearly aren't potential customers ! And anyway this is a forum in which I regularly participate about all sorts of nonsense. I say what I think, it just happens this thread is about something my business provides. It's me, talking as me, not the marketing department.

Anyway, to your IBM reference, is there any evidence copper-tek is not as good? No there isn't as far as I know.

It's just that Coppercoat has got clear evidence of boats still working well after 18 years. Others have tried to copy Coppercoat in the past and it isn't as simple as putting copper in epoxy. Maybe copper- tek are the first to get it right.

But I have yet to see a copper-tek coated boat, leave alone one thats done a few seasons in the water. So I don't think there is any evidence at all.

You can't prove a negative.

 

[Elessar]

Before you pay out good money, come and see the weed growing on my boat - coppercoated over the winter, launched June this year

I'll happily come and see it.
If it's on right it will be simple to get it corroding properly and working perfectly for decades.
Bare copper isn't a biocide, only the green corroded stuff. If you launch in June it's possible for some slime to grow quickly enough to seal the copper stopping it corroding quickly. The weed will only be stuck to the slime, not the boat and will wipe off easily.
Coppercoat is often better in the second season when it's corroding properly, and it stays good for many years. This is because it takes a few months to get to full strength.
Ordinary antifoul gets to full strength after a week then it's downhill from there.

 

[dslittle]

Seriously considering one of these.

Boat now back on mooring at 32/10. I had her coppercoated when I bought her two years ago if you want to see how she is getting on. I would recommend (and a good person to do the work - not me !!!)
Dave

 

[Plevier]

I didn't. Those who would choose an un proven product over a proven one with no other advantage clearly aren't potential customers ! And anyway this is a forum in which I regularly participate about all sorts of nonsense. I say what I think, it just happens this thread is about something my business provides. It's me, talking as me, not the marketing department.

Quote from my original post: "Seriously considering one of these."
Doesn't that indicate that I have not chosen one over the other?
So I was a potential customer. Regardless of that your manner is unnecessarily aggressive. (I'm not the first to say words to that effect.)

I infer from what you say that Copper-Tek has no track record at all - I will query that point and if so that's obviously a cause for caution. Of course CopperCoat/Copperbot was once in the same position. They must have found some raving lunatics prepared to try it!

 

[Elessar]

Quote from my original post: "Seriously considering one of these."
Doesn't that indicate that I have not chosen one over the other?
So I was a potential customer. Regardless of that your manner is unnecessarily aggressive. (I'm not the first to say words to that effect.)

I infer from what you say that Copper-Tek has no track record at all - I will query that point and if so that's obviously a cause for caution. Of course CopperCoat/Copperbot was once in the same position. They must have found some raving lunatics prepared to try it!

Getting silly now.

Either I put it very badly or you didn't read what I said at all.

I said someone would be mad to buy unproven over proven if there was no other advantage. So That's why coppertek has to be cheaper to give it an advantage of some sort. It has to be price it doesn't claim to be better in any other way.

As many have bought unproven pretenders before and been burned, I don't think the very small amount less is worth the risk. You might. Up to you.

You did at least get the point I was making about a cause for caution. I'm glad that sunk in when I was (unintentionally) beating you up! Heed that and the bruises will be worth it.......

 

[Plevier]

Boat now back on mooring at 32/10. I had her coppercoated when I bought her two years ago if you want to see how she is getting on. I would recommend (and a good person to do the work - not me !!!)
Dave

Thank you, that's very kind but I have seen Coppercoated boats - there is at least one in my club, home applied - and in general I believe the process works although there do seem to be some dissatisfied users.
I shall examine the boat and consider whether I need to scrape/blast this year anyway. If yes then it makes sense. If no then I will probably just add another layer of a/f until I do need to take it all off.

 

[gianenrico]

Coppercoat in the Med

For what You May Care:
I applied CC in summer 2006 to my 40 footer underside. Done on a one month old boat.
Unfortunatly since then my sailing habits had to change (NOT as a result of CC application), and the boat stays moored for more than 6 months in a clean water/nutriment rich marina.

Results? A coat of sand/slime and other INORGANIC material deposits on the hull (no treatment would inhibit this), onto which some small algae and then mussels grow; a few barnacles can find their way, too.
BUT I just lift the boat around 9 am, while the boys at the yard clean the hull with the water pressure jet, I change the zincs, grease the propeller and, presto, by 11.00 she is in the water again.

Next spring I'll give it a run with the fine sander and seee if it goes to the 10 year life span.

Satisfied? Yes. Why? Saved a lot of planning and coordination to have the hull job done. Saved some euros of paint? Probably, but that would not be the main issue in suggesting the product.


Of course, no affiliation whatsoever with CC or any distributor.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Next spring I'll give it a run with the fine sander and seee if it goes to the 10 year life span.

Why abrade it if it's working?