aquapower
New member
I'd love to know where you can get it done for 2k? With costs of lifts, blasting, materials and labour you would probably be near double that.
Coppercoat – The Complete Process
- Thread starter Hurricane
- Start date
I'd love to know where you can get it done for 2k? With costs of lifts, blasting, materials and labour you would probably be near double that.
Dorado
New member
I bought a sailing boat with copper coat from UK and sailed it to Finland.
After first summer there was weeds and barnacles in the bottom, much more than on any time with
antifouling painted boats on these waters.
It remained a mystery why the cc did not work? Many suggested that it may be because of the baltic
sea being of very low salt content?
I decided to have the bottom repainted with antifouling paint and had no trouble with any growth during
following summers.
Any ideas why cc did not work on the Baltic?
After first summer there was weeds and barnacles in the bottom, much more than on any time with
antifouling painted boats on these waters.
It remained a mystery why the cc did not work? Many suggested that it may be because of the baltic
sea being of very low salt content?
I decided to have the bottom repainted with antifouling paint and had no trouble with any growth during
following summers.
Any ideas why cc did not work on the Baltic?
rafiki_
Well-known member
Please see post #80
aquapower
New member
Have looked at #80, who gave the estimate ?
EwanClark
New member
That estimate didn't include lift costs, as they vary from place to place. But lift costs are not effected by your choice of anti-foul so are not a direct variable in this cost comparison. The key, to my mind, is to make the most of the lift-out. And the best way to do that is to complete as much work as possible to lessen the need for future lifts. Fitting Coppercoat is just one way of doing this.
Hurricane
Well-known member
Reposted after patching the photos from Photobucket
JW is a young boat so it may surprise you that this year we opted for Coppercoat rather than traditional antifoul. Last year, we discovered that a previous antifoul paint had failed leaving a sticky coating difficult to remove so I spent the season researching a solution. In order to get the hull back to a good smooth finish, all the old antifoul had to be removed so I spent last season researching all the options. I’ve always considered Coppercoat as an alternative but ruled it out because it requires all previous antifoul to be removed. So, after long research, I decided that we should strip the old antifoul and apply Coppercoat.
There are several options to removing the old antifoul. Hand removal was out of the question – too expensive and difficult to remove in tight spaces. I chose slurry blasting rather than dry sand blasting. I’ve seen some boats dry blasted and the result is good but IMO the process is too aggressive. I was told by several people that the wet slurry processes used will remove all the antifoul without damaging the underlying gelcoat. This, indeed, was the case. For example I inspected a boat that had been dry sand blasted and there was a distinct ridge at the waterline where the antifoul meets the exposed gelcoat. The ridge was due to the sand blasting process removing a small layer of gelcoat as well as the antifoul. This ridge is not evident when slurry processes are used. In our case, I found that the removal process using the “slurry blasting” technique was just as promised. Amazingly it removes just the paint – nothing else. Even around plastic fittings, the paint is removed without damaging the plastic. I have also seen some excellent cases of dry sandblasting but I just didn’t want to take the risk.
So, here are some pics showing the removal process.
To save time and money, four boats were treated at the same time.
Two sailboats and two mobos.
The sailboat on the right in this pic was to have its antifoul removed after JW.
This pic shows the actual removal.
In comparison with other methods, it is a comparatively clean process.
All the slurry is contained within the enclosed space.
Dry sand processes tend to leak out and cover the whole boatyard.
The slurry does stick to the hull in places but once it has dried it can be simply brushed off with a hand brush.
The process removes the old antifoul paint from the most difficult of places. This pic shows dust in the thruster tunnel – no damage to the hull at all.
Even the metalwork can be initially cleaned up using the process.
Note the blasting nozzle on the floor in this pic.
This pic shows just how gentle the process is. Once brushed off, the gelcoat and all the mouldings are intact. Imagine trying to do that manually with sandpaper?
When finished, the site is left for the slurry to dry. The boat is then brushed with a soft hand brush and the waste swept up.
Props ready for polishing.
Then, after a bit of final preparation and masking, the application of the Coppercoat itself. Coppercoat is usually applied in 4 coats. All the coats HAVE to be applied immediately after each other. You can’t do a bit and leave it for a day. So JW was split into to halves. The port side was done in one day and the starboard the following day. Metal parts were primed with a special Coppercoat supplied primer. We had slightly over ordered the Coppercoat so an extra coat was added to the waterline area.
Four other boats were being treated at the same time so it was convenient to paint patches 3 days earlier and then lift the boat onto dry and cured patches. Note that the blocks on the bottom were moved onto finished patches at the same time.
Once applied, the Coppercoat was left for several days to cure.
In the meantime, we masked and repainted the waterline.
And refitted the thrusters and trim tabs etc.
And did the props – DON’T ASK – It’s an experiment!!!
And here’s the final result – just prior to relaunch.
Hope this post is interesting.
I also did my research on Coppercoat in the Med.
Every case that I looked into was a success.
Let’s hope this one is as well.
JW is a young boat so it may surprise you that this year we opted for Coppercoat rather than traditional antifoul. Last year, we discovered that a previous antifoul paint had failed leaving a sticky coating difficult to remove so I spent the season researching a solution. In order to get the hull back to a good smooth finish, all the old antifoul had to be removed so I spent last season researching all the options. I’ve always considered Coppercoat as an alternative but ruled it out because it requires all previous antifoul to be removed. So, after long research, I decided that we should strip the old antifoul and apply Coppercoat.
There are several options to removing the old antifoul. Hand removal was out of the question – too expensive and difficult to remove in tight spaces. I chose slurry blasting rather than dry sand blasting. I’ve seen some boats dry blasted and the result is good but IMO the process is too aggressive. I was told by several people that the wet slurry processes used will remove all the antifoul without damaging the underlying gelcoat. This, indeed, was the case. For example I inspected a boat that had been dry sand blasted and there was a distinct ridge at the waterline where the antifoul meets the exposed gelcoat. The ridge was due to the sand blasting process removing a small layer of gelcoat as well as the antifoul. This ridge is not evident when slurry processes are used. In our case, I found that the removal process using the “slurry blasting” technique was just as promised. Amazingly it removes just the paint – nothing else. Even around plastic fittings, the paint is removed without damaging the plastic. I have also seen some excellent cases of dry sandblasting but I just didn’t want to take the risk.
So, here are some pics showing the removal process.
To save time and money, four boats were treated at the same time.
Two sailboats and two mobos.
The sailboat on the right in this pic was to have its antifoul removed after JW.
This pic shows the actual removal.
In comparison with other methods, it is a comparatively clean process.
All the slurry is contained within the enclosed space.
Dry sand processes tend to leak out and cover the whole boatyard.
The slurry does stick to the hull in places but once it has dried it can be simply brushed off with a hand brush.
The process removes the old antifoul paint from the most difficult of places. This pic shows dust in the thruster tunnel – no damage to the hull at all.
Even the metalwork can be initially cleaned up using the process.
Note the blasting nozzle on the floor in this pic.
This pic shows just how gentle the process is. Once brushed off, the gelcoat and all the mouldings are intact. Imagine trying to do that manually with sandpaper?
When finished, the site is left for the slurry to dry. The boat is then brushed with a soft hand brush and the waste swept up.
Props ready for polishing.
Then, after a bit of final preparation and masking, the application of the Coppercoat itself. Coppercoat is usually applied in 4 coats. All the coats HAVE to be applied immediately after each other. You can’t do a bit and leave it for a day. So JW was split into to halves. The port side was done in one day and the starboard the following day. Metal parts were primed with a special Coppercoat supplied primer. We had slightly over ordered the Coppercoat so an extra coat was added to the waterline area.
Four other boats were being treated at the same time so it was convenient to paint patches 3 days earlier and then lift the boat onto dry and cured patches. Note that the blocks on the bottom were moved onto finished patches at the same time.
Once applied, the Coppercoat was left for several days to cure.
In the meantime, we masked and repainted the waterline.
And refitted the thrusters and trim tabs etc.
And did the props – DON’T ASK – It’s an experiment!!!
And here’s the final result – just prior to relaunch.
Hope this post is interesting.
I also did my research on Coppercoat in the Med.
Every case that I looked into was a success.
Let’s hope this one is as well.
rafiki_
Well-known member
Thanks for resurrecting this Mike.
tcm
...
I’m somewhat late to this one but from my experience with CC over several years on a sailboat ...
1 if the stuff is applied to clean abraded surface as here - it just cannot be a bad idea to apply 4-5 coats of epoxy to the bottom of the boat.
2 Encouraging the green oxide - some allude to that above. I heard bad reports of people trying to abrade the surface before relaunch including oops taking it all off ... but i did encourage “greening" prior to relaunch with spraying it with mild acid, not a big deal, not all THAT important in the scheme of things.
3 Re exposing the copper, i got some guys to abrade it the following year by which time it was as hard as nails! I tried with 80 grit and eventually needed 40grit even to slightly abrade the surface. Went green all over straightaway on 2nd relaunch.
4 On any boat, if there slime on the bottom of the hull, then you could remove it as you would remove slime from any other painted surface such as (say) the front door of your house - very very carefully. But that would take ages with a boat, so pressure washer does the job faster - and takes off all but the most very well-stuck paint, hardly surprising! If you pressure washed your front door i bet it would need painting every year too! Copper coat limits if not eliminates barnies, but more importantly the surface is hard as nails as opposed to seawater-softened paint which is soft. And so pressure washing (or underwater scraping in warmer waters) doesn’t take off that protected layer.
5 With relaunch, there could easily be some damage to the quite-soft CC from the slings, just with taking up sheer weight on them. But it’s okay to patch up with more CC later. Applying CC isn’t like (say) chrome plating where it’s gotta be all perfectly perfect first time.
all imho...
1 if the stuff is applied to clean abraded surface as here - it just cannot be a bad idea to apply 4-5 coats of epoxy to the bottom of the boat.
2 Encouraging the green oxide - some allude to that above. I heard bad reports of people trying to abrade the surface before relaunch including oops taking it all off ... but i did encourage “greening" prior to relaunch with spraying it with mild acid, not a big deal, not all THAT important in the scheme of things.
3 Re exposing the copper, i got some guys to abrade it the following year by which time it was as hard as nails! I tried with 80 grit and eventually needed 40grit even to slightly abrade the surface. Went green all over straightaway on 2nd relaunch.
4 On any boat, if there slime on the bottom of the hull, then you could remove it as you would remove slime from any other painted surface such as (say) the front door of your house - very very carefully. But that would take ages with a boat, so pressure washer does the job faster - and takes off all but the most very well-stuck paint, hardly surprising! If you pressure washed your front door i bet it would need painting every year too! Copper coat limits if not eliminates barnies, but more importantly the surface is hard as nails as opposed to seawater-softened paint which is soft. And so pressure washing (or underwater scraping in warmer waters) doesn’t take off that protected layer.
5 With relaunch, there could easily be some damage to the quite-soft CC from the slings, just with taking up sheer weight on them. But it’s okay to patch up with more CC later. Applying CC isn’t like (say) chrome plating where it’s gotta be all perfectly perfect first time.
all imho...
petem
Well-known member
You survived the hurricane then Matt?
MapisM
Well-known member
Yup, aesthetic perfection definitely ain't a big issue for the hull bottom.
But my understanding is that CC strongly recommend to put each coat on top of the previous une within one hour - i.e. not allowing it to cure completely. How can CC stick to the previous layers, possibly years later?
Or is there some trick, like coating with a primer again the area to be patched, for instance?
Eren
Member
Hurricane,
How was your experience with CC? Do you have the bottom soft-cleaned every year by divers? Does CC reduce he chances of osmosis?
How was your experience with CC? Do you have the bottom soft-cleaned every year by divers? Does CC reduce he chances of osmosis?
Rocksteadee
Active member
And did the props – DON’T ASK – It’s an experiment!!!
Saw the trial with different prop treatment. Did you get an outcome? Or too soon yet?
Saw the trial with different prop treatment. Did you get an outcome? Or too soon yet?
P4Paul
Active member
I have no first hand experience of CC but from my working knowledge of epoxy I expect the instructions regarding applying the next layer of epoxy while the previous layer of epoxy has not cured is to enable a chemical bond between the two layers.
Allowing the previous layer of epoxy to cure and then applying another coat at a later date relies on the achievement of a purely mechanical bond and in certain circumstances the two layers can run the risk of 'delaminating'.
There is no 'trick' I know of to produce a chemical bond between a cured initial layer and the new layer being applied..
Last edited:
oldgit
Well-known member
My newly aquired boat has been Coppercoated . Judging by the amount of weed growth, the local fauna and and flora think they are in some sort of seventh heaven.
Boat is being lifted for new props and have bought some proper anti foul,which may or may not get applied,depending on circumstances.
Not sure if local condtions, but , nobody who has had Coppercoat applied, either professionally or DIY is leaping up and down telling the world how wonderful it is, when questioned usually a rather uncertain response.
Difficult to understand the cost vs benefit, if you have got to haul the boat out each year( the major cost) and jet wash off anyway, how does an hour or so slapping on a nice new coat of A/F cause a problem. ?
Boat is being lifted for new props and have bought some proper anti foul,which may or may not get applied,depending on circumstances.
Not sure if local condtions, but , nobody who has had Coppercoat applied, either professionally or DIY is leaping up and down telling the world how wonderful it is, when questioned usually a rather uncertain response.
Difficult to understand the cost vs benefit, if you have got to haul the boat out each year( the major cost) and jet wash off anyway, how does an hour or so slapping on a nice new coat of A/F cause a problem. ?
Last edited:
Hurricane
Well-known member
Yep - Coppercoat definitely works.
We are berthed in a particularly fouling aggressive part of the world and it is clear that CC isn't as good as af paint when it comes to actual fouling protection.
However, it is really really really easy to maintain.
We lift the boat at the beginning of each season - usually, we lightly scrub the CC with a scotch pad.
Another consideration
Most boats out here reapply a fresh coat of conventional af at the beginning of each season.
Then, during the season, the lift for a quick wash before using the boats.
The yard here has a particularly strong pressure washer which can wash off some of the unused af coating.
That doesn't happen with CC
All in all though, I would definitely apply CC to another boat.
Hurricane
Well-known member
CC on the props, trim tabs, P brackets, rudders and shafts didn't work.
No damage to any of the underwater metalwork but the CC just didn't stick.
The CC manufacturer did say it wouldn't work but we tried anyway.
Over the years, we have tried virtually everything on the props.
The solution for us now is "nothing".
Over the last 3 or 4 seasons, we have just cleaned and polished the underwater metalwork.
At Sant Carles, it is very easy (and cheap) to lift the boat whenever you want to have a quick pressure wash off.
Having nothing on the metalwork makes it MUCH easier to clean - when you paint, some of it sticks in the less prominent areas and is a real ?astard to remove.
This strategy works for us and gives us a good clean boat to go cruising.
Elessar
Well-known member
its a mechanical bond to the boat.
Similarly its a mechanical bond to cured coppercoat.
Use 80-120 grid and abrade well. Sorted.
Elessar
Well-known member
1: how do you know it's coppercoat:
2 if it is how old is it?
3: when was it last abraded. I think a light abrade after 4-5 years is needed.
The saving from my point of view is that i can lift and hold to change anodes, antifoul the props and jetwash. Lift and block off is twice as expensive. Plus the cost of the anitfoul itslef which they don't give away.
If you do apply what you call proper antifoul make sure you abrade well and put primocon or similar on first.
BTW now the company is 20 years old, they are finding sales to existing customers overcoating the 10 -20 year old coppercoat is an increasingly big part of their business. Sort of contradicts your nobody likes it argument.
kashurst
Well-known member
I found copper coat very good in the med, after the first year/18 months when it has turned green. Useless on the underwater metal bits it falls off and makes a horrid mess - I use velox instead. Thereafter each spring just lift and give it a good jetwash - away you go 
Where we are the fouling grows on any coating regardless, if you leave the boat a few months unused. So a lift and clean is unavoidable. Fortunately a lift and clean in Spain is half what it costs in the UK.
Where we are the fouling grows on any coating regardless, if you leave the boat a few months unused. So a lift and clean is unavoidable. Fortunately a lift and clean in Spain is half what it costs in the UK.
Last edited:
oldgit
Well-known member
.....previous owner of my boat claims it was first treated 3 years ago.
Boat bottom was clean when launched off the low loader in June on delivery from North Wales.70 hours later It is now a weedy mess especially around the waterline.Nor sure about whats not visible further down.
22 knots on launch 18 knots a week or two ago.
Will report back in next few weeks .Nothing would please me more to discover my days of getting smothered with A/F are over for few years,but visible evidence suggests other wise.