John100156
Well-known member
Thats a nice looking F43 in the background...... Now I know where the two buckets of grey dust that we cleaned off came from.....
Coppercoat – The Complete Process
- Thread starter Hurricane
- Start date
Thats a nice looking F43 in the background...... Now I know where the two buckets of grey dust that we cleaned off came from.....
Hurricane
Well-known member
John100156
Well-known member
And to think that you sat there and drunk half a bottle of Gordon's.........
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Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
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Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
I hope you have better experience with Propshield than I had in Majorca when I applied it to my old Ferretti 46 props and I had it applied by so called 'professionals'. Within weeks it was flaking off in sections and those sections were becoming barnacled. When I tried to scrape the barnacles off those sections, it was too easy to damage what was left of the Propshield treatment. In my case a very expensive failure.
I would be interested to know how the economics of Coppercoat stack up. I'm not asking you to reveal exact costs but can you let us know how the cost compares to the cost of applying standard antifoul paint. In other words, how long does the Coppercoat have to last before you break even against the cost of applying antifoul paint on an annual basis?
Hurricane
Well-known member
Mike
I think you are mixing up Propshield with Propspeed
Propshield is a lanolin treatment - so its a kind of grease.
Propspeed is a silicon based – more expensive product.
Coppercoat
We treated four boats.
Prices ranged from just under 4000 euros to around 5500 euros.
Inclusive of VAT (IVA)
That was including all old antifoul removal, supply and application of the Coppercoat to boat and metalwork and preparation of the props (I polished them). Any metalwork to be Coppercoated was initially primed with the official Coppercoat primer.
A typical antifoul session (Micron 77) would be 2000 euros inc prop treatment although I have been quoted more.
So, break even in about 2 to 3 years.
There are other hidden savings though – subsequent years will require far less time ashore for annual maintenance. We are charged a daily rate whilst we are ashore in the boatyard. Some people I know (Sailboats for example) haven’t even lifted in subsequent years.
I looked into Coppercoat costs about 6 years ago and remember it being more expensive then.
You need a good contractor though – there are “tricks of the trade” so to speak.
I spent a long time researching – Elessar was very helpful – we were even thinking of shipping his guys out there but it was just as well that we used the local guy in the end – the Spanish red tape would have been horrendous – that’s Europe for you!!
I think you are mixing up Propshield with Propspeed
Propshield is a lanolin treatment - so its a kind of grease.
Propspeed is a silicon based – more expensive product.
Coppercoat
We treated four boats.
Prices ranged from just under 4000 euros to around 5500 euros.
Inclusive of VAT (IVA)
That was including all old antifoul removal, supply and application of the Coppercoat to boat and metalwork and preparation of the props (I polished them). Any metalwork to be Coppercoated was initially primed with the official Coppercoat primer.
A typical antifoul session (Micron 77) would be 2000 euros inc prop treatment although I have been quoted more.
So, break even in about 2 to 3 years.
There are other hidden savings though – subsequent years will require far less time ashore for annual maintenance. We are charged a daily rate whilst we are ashore in the boatyard. Some people I know (Sailboats for example) haven’t even lifted in subsequent years.
I looked into Coppercoat costs about 6 years ago and remember it being more expensive then.
You need a good contractor though – there are “tricks of the trade” so to speak.
I spent a long time researching – Elessar was very helpful – we were even thinking of shipping his guys out there but it was just as well that we used the local guy in the end – the Spanish red tape would have been horrendous – that’s Europe for you!!
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Yes you're right. Sorry
Thats v reasonable and makes it a no brainer really. Damn, I've just paid an Italian yard €2000+ to re-antifoul my boat. I wish you'd posted this a month ago
I assumed the treatment would be around €10k. It'll have to be next year
Hurricane
Well-known member
Yes you're right. Sorry
Thats v reasonable and makes it a no brainer really. Damn, I've just paid an Italian yard €2000+ to re-antifoul my boat. I wish you'd posted this a month ago
You should get away with far less than that, Mike.
Call Coppercoat in the UK for your local man.
DAKA
Well-known member
Very interesting post
If the different prop protections dont work as well it will be interesting to see if you get any vibration from 'unbalanced' props.
just a thought but just in case you are not 100% happy after year 1 then a single coat of the cheapest soft eroding antifoul could be added each year at minimal cost , then any fouling would wash away each time you cruise @ 24knts, after 4-5 months the soft af would wear away completely leaving the coppercoat to take over for the rest of the season(in effect only needing to protect for 7 months).
If the different prop protections dont work as well it will be interesting to see if you get any vibration from 'unbalanced' props.
just a thought but just in case you are not 100% happy after year 1 then a single coat of the cheapest soft eroding antifoul could be added each year at minimal cost , then any fouling would wash away each time you cruise @ 24knts, after 4-5 months the soft af would wear away completely leaving the coppercoat to take over for the rest of the season(in effect only needing to protect for 7 months).
Tender_aft
New member
I just read this thread as you linked to it Hurricane. It's almost 2 years now. What's the verdict to date on Coppercoat in the Med?
Hurricane
Well-known member
To be perfectly honest, it doesn't work as well as antifoul for keeping the fowling off but...
We get really cheap lifts so it is easy to keep it clean and it is a doddle each year you lift for maintenance - virtually no work to do - just a quick pressure wash.
And I still believe that when it is clean it is more efficient than conventional antifoul.
I don't regret having it done and would do it again on another boat if I ever get one.
We get really cheap lifts so it is easy to keep it clean and it is a doddle each year you lift for maintenance - virtually no work to do - just a quick pressure wash.
And I still believe that when it is clean it is more efficient than conventional antifoul.
I don't regret having it done and would do it again on another boat if I ever get one.
harstonwood
Member
Thinking about getting our boat coppercoated, just need an accurate quote ( coppercoat website faq a bit optimistic at £840 plus vat!)
Anyone know if anyone applies it in North Wales?
Anyone know if anyone applies it in North Wales?
lisilou
Active member
Great thread H...thankyou.
L
L
kashurst
Well-known member
I've decided to take the plunge too. Boat is being copper coated at the end of the month, same people that did Jenny Wren I believe. I'm after the smooth bottom to get a more reliable performance and not having to scrape and paint each year. Last year I had the boat lifted and jetwashed 3 times (again I can get cheap lifts - 200Euro for a lift and good jet wash) using normal antifoul so if I have to do similar with copper coat I will still be ahead after a few years and not have a build up of antifoul to deal with. I have been using the epoxy based spray on antifoul on the metal work to keep the props clean - it works well in my marina and stays on too.
Canopy Locked
Well-known member
You can Copper coat yourself
It's not difficult. I've done it twice now on my last 2 boats - it's very hard work (once you start you must finish) and (as has been said b4) you must keep it dry and temp also plays a crucial role. But if you can get it under cover ideally in a well ventilated shed, the results are every bit as good as the pro's!
View attachment 38937
It's not difficult. I've done it twice now on my last 2 boats - it's very hard work (once you start you must finish) and (as has been said b4) you must keep it dry and temp also plays a crucial role. But if you can get it under cover ideally in a well ventilated shed, the results are every bit as good as the pro's!
View attachment 38937
Hurricane
Well-known member
Great - if it is Dennis, please will you pass on my regards to him
There was a problem with one of the group that used him and I think it left a bad feeling.
I was extremely please with his work
If we left him with bad feelings, it wasn't from me
I'd appreciate it if you would pass on my feelings
He is a great guy.
Mike
MYStargazer
Active member
A fantastic thread - thanks for posting.
Coppercoat is a (albeit water-based) epoxy. OP - has it helped to slow anode wear on your boat?
More generally (and leaving props to one side) is it better to cover the stainless and bronze shafts/p-brackets/rudders or leave them uncovered?
I'm going to go down the Coppercoat route, and tempted to cover everything over and then connect everything to the shafts and rely on shaft anodes alone (which can be changed without a lift).
Coppercoat is a (albeit water-based) epoxy. OP - has it helped to slow anode wear on your boat?
More generally (and leaving props to one side) is it better to cover the stainless and bronze shafts/p-brackets/rudders or leave them uncovered?
I'm going to go down the Coppercoat route, and tempted to cover everything over and then connect everything to the shafts and rely on shaft anodes alone (which can be changed without a lift).
Hurricane
Well-known member
Wear on anodes
Actually, I want my anodes to wear - thats what they are there for.
I don't know the construction of your galvanic protection but I've always been concerned about shaft anodes.
IMO, a good galvanic system should have a good Nobel difference between the cathode and the anode with everything else in between.
It seems to me that shaft anodes are half way through the system which IMO will create an electrical flow both ways down the shafts.
If that is exactly what you want, it seems to me that is what you will get.
Personally, I would stick to convention.
That is big hull anodes bonded to the boat's earth system and then ensure that there is an excellent electrical connection between the boat's earth and the shafts.
That way you will create a good electrical flow between the anode and the cathode (the props) - BTW I'm never sure which way the electricity actually flows but it is the concept that matters.
If you are asking about coating the underwater metalwork with Coppercoat - it was a failure on our boat - it didn't stick.
Great on the hull - just not right for the metalwork.
Back to your original question, I don't think that Coppercoat has much bearing on the galvanic system.
Coppercoat is copper granules suspended in epoxy - I'm no expert but it seems to me that the epoxy surrounding each granule will electrically insulate it from the next.
Anyway, as I say, sacrificial anodes are designed to wear to protect other more expensive parts - thats why they are called sacrificial.
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MapisM
Well-known member
Do you mean more slippery?
If you experienced a better performance (either higher wot speed or lower engines load at cruising speed), I for one would be interested to hear more about that.
By common sense alone, I can't think of any logical reason why it should be better in this respect.
kashurst
Well-known member
In principal coppercoat gives a harder surface and (if sprayed or rolled very well) lower drag factor than normal antifoul. There have been some examples in MBY where it helped (Gregg Coop's Sunseeker) but I suspect its not always the case as there are lots of other variables. But in theory it should help. Last summer I had my boat jetwashed and then did quite a lot of hours @ 25kns and after a week or so the boat picked up another knot as the antifoul wore away. My boat's bottom is rough as a badgers a**e so I'm anticipating a small improvement.