Contessa 32 doppelganger.

[Tranona]

Wildlings sailing have been offered a cheap Freedom at a special price. Described in his vlog a few week ago. He turned it down.

I have just watched his latest offering yesterday. He is on another planet if he thinks he can get a 40' (almost) ready to go in the US for $25-30k. He will have a major shock when actually sees what sort of heap you get for that money!. The Freedom looked a good buy but he (a little bit like you if I may dare) seems a bit obsessed with what "looks" like a proper shape hull, ignoring the fact that the vast majority of bluewater sailors don't use that sort of boat because either they are too expensive if they are any good or they are c**p sitting mouldering in a boatyard somewhere running up big bills.

The Freedom IMHO is far and away the best bet of all the boats he has looked at in that it needs very little work - mostly prep for the big trip and will allow him to enjoy his trip rather than being in a constant battle keeping a worn out 40 footer going. But then I guess I am not on the same wavelength as somebody whose dream boat is a Wharram 46!

 

[Daydream believer]

I have just watched his latest offering yesterday. He is on another planet if he thinks he can get a 40' (almost) ready to go in the US for $25-30k. He will have a major shock when actually sees what sort of heap you get for that money!. The Freedom looked a good buy but he (a little bit like you if I may dare) seems a bit obsessed with what "looks" like a proper shape hull, ignoring the fact that the vast majority of bluewater sailors don't use that sort of boat because either they are too expensive if they are any good or they are c**p sitting mouldering in a boatyard somewhere running up big bills.

The Freedom IMHO is far and away the best bet of all the boats he has looked at in that it needs very little work - mostly prep for the big trip and will allow him to enjoy his trip rather than being in a constant battle keeping a worn out 40 footer going. But then I guess I am not on the same wavelength as somebody whose dream boat is a Wharram 46!

I think that he should go for the freebie. He will have cash to spare & may be able to sell it. Or at worse, dump it if it all goes t..s up.

 

[dunedin]

If you can't get your Moody to sail to windward there's something wrong; fix that rather than buying another boat. While it's a relatively high hull volume by the standard of mid-80s british design it's no wobbly floating caravan designed for mediterranean charter service, it should have no difficulty going to weather.

Absolutely. It certainly should sail to windward plenty well enough for sailing the Med. Many do.

I see the OP is indeed thinking of getting better sails for the Moody, which could help. But I would also refer back to post #26.
It is very worthwhile
(a) getting some photos taken from on and off the boat when sailing to windward on Moody currently - this will show both any sail condition issues and any settings / sheeting issues
(b) investing in a day on board instruction / coaching - at worst it is an interesting day sailing

Ideally do both before ordering the sails. But certainly make sure you have enough knowledge and/or get the right advice to order the right spec of sails - especially the jib which is critical upwind (good cloth, possibly tri radial, certainly foam luff).
Not sure if Moody has in mast furling main. That can certainly make windward performance worse, but better sails can help.

If not a member of Moody Owners worth joining and asking for views of other 346 owners

 

[bignick]

If you’re prepared to look at other boats than the Contessa, have a look at the H-323 and H-35. Both are bigger brothers of the h-boat, and share the same lineage, being designed by Hans Groop. I owned an h-boat a few years ago and it was fabulous to sail. Much nicer sensation of moving through the water than the newer boat I have now, but like your IF it was tiny down below.

in addition to these, you could also look at the Sadler range. The Sadler 32 was a development of the Contessa, also being designed by David Sadler. Take a look at the 32 (Sadler 32) and the 34 .

 

[steveeasy]

With due respect, if the Op does not actually know if the problem with his Moody is due to poor sails, then it suggests to me that he does not know what he is looking at. In that case It might realistically be suggested that his sailing ability is not the greatest. Yes, one might be able to cross an ocean, but that does not mean that one is sailing the boat efficiently. If I am wrong then I apologise.

Knowing how to reef, get in & out of berths, or navigate A-B are important. But actually sailing the boat well sometimes escapes one.

It seems to me that the problem might be- Note I say might- a poorly set up rig, poor sails & poor windward sailing technique. That will not be solved by buying a Contessa. If the OP cannot sail in the first place, then he will not sail any better with a different boat.

I might be well out of order here & there is no intention to upset the Op. However, it may be down to some lessons from a professional. He will tell you if your sails are shot. Then a chat to a rigger & get a decent (There are some poor ones) sailmaker & get each on board to look & advise on the sails & the rig. Go to a sailmaker with a pedigree. Not some cheepo local selling cheepo dacron sail cloth. Go to a company with a racing pedigree.

Making a boat "sail well", as opposed to making a boat "sail", takes time & effort. To many it does not matter. To others, it is beyond them, without guidance.

A boat with efficient sails will pretty much sail itself. Without getting in to the nitty gritty, it is really quite simple. A boat not set up correctly with poor sails is just a pain in the backside. There comes a time when its time to move on. Time to call it a day spending more money on a boat that in reality wont increase its value. Time for a fresh start. It sort of echoes exactly my situation. I had a nice boat. needed very little, I really enjoyed working on it, felt more than at home on it, but really it just did not do it for me. great for cruising, but something was missing. Of course I put off selling it for several years and the last thing I wanted to do was end up boatless. That all went out the window when I found my new boat.

New start, new place. new experiences and new challenges. I wonder if its not what most of us do. So I think the OP should go for it and buy what really excites him. The she 31 is a fabulous looking boat, I suspect not easy to find one. the Contessa 32, well not for me to say either way. 2 cracking well respected boats that wont bore their owners too quickly.

Go for it and have some fun.
Steveeasy

 

[BurnitBlue]

There is an angry button if I have upset you. But I had no intention of doing so. If you want me to delete the post then I will. It will not make your moody go any faster though

No problem and no offence taken. Most if not all the points you raised had alresdy been answered.

 

[BurnitBlue]

I have just watched his latest offering yesterday. He is on another planet if he thinks he can get a 40' (almost) ready to go in the US for $25-30k. He will have a major shock when actually sees what sort of heap you get for that money!. The Freedom looked a good buy but he (a little bit like you if I may dare) seems a bit obsessed with what "looks" like a proper shape hull, ignoring the fact that the vast majority of bluewater sailors don't use that sort of boat because either they are too expensive if they are any good or they are c**p sitting mouldering in a boatyard somewhere running up big bills.

The Freedom IMHO is far and away the best bet of all the boats he has looked at in that it needs very little work - mostly prep for the big trip and will allow him to enjoy his trip rather than being in a constant battle keeping a worn out 40 footer going. But then I guess I am not on the same wavelength as somebody whose dream boat is a Wharram 46!

I agree with you completely. He seems desperate to own s large over 40 foot boat for around 30,000 pound.with no regsrd to maintenance. Not to mention the cost of actually getting the boat safe to move. In fairness, these boats do exist and maybe he will get lucky. However, sleeping in his car makes him tired and open to bad decision to escape his situation. He is putting me to shame though as i would not dream of travelling to Costa Rica to look at any boat.

 

[steveeasy]

For the OP,
Just makes me smile. Its a good fix.

Steveeasy

 

[Tranona]

I agree with you completely. He seems desperate to own s large over 40 foot boat for around 30,000 pound.with no regsrd to maintenance. Not to mention the cost of actually getting the boat safe to move. In fairness, these boats do exist and maybe he will get lucky. However, sleeping in his car makes him tired and open to bad decision to escape his situation. He is putting me to shame though as i would not dream of travelling to Costa Rica to look at any boat.

This yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/1991-barbican-33-mk-11-6198283/ is a much more sensible thing for him to buy, although it has been for sale for some time so maybe something not quite right about it.

 

[BurnitBlue]

If you’re prepared to look at other boats than the Contessa, have a look at the H-323 and H-35. Both are bigger brothers of the h-boat, and share the same lineage, being designed by Hans Groop. I owned an h-boat a few years ago and it was fabulous to sail. Much nicer sensation of moving through the water than the newer boat I have now, but like your IF it was tiny down below.

in addition to these, you could also look at the Sadler range. The Sadler 32 was a development of the Contessa, also being designed by David Sadler. Take a look at the 32 (Sadler 32) and the 34 .

I would love to look at other boats if I knew what I was looking at. As Tranona and a few others on this forum will tell you I have prejudice based on traditional body shape.like the Nicholson 32, Rustler 31 long keel tiller steered heavy displacement. Believe me, looking at a Contessa 32 is already a massive departure from my natural choice. I am proud that I have taken this tiny step away from Nicholson 32 concept.

I see boats today with no transom, two wheels, two rudders, a thin narrow keel with a bulb at the bottom. Three spresders but no backstay. Carbon fibre, kavlar sails, what the heck is a code zero? Plumb bows even retrouse bows when I haven't taken in retrouse sterns yet. No, I must limit myself to a small choice that I am familiar with.

Thanks for the suggestions. They have certainly peaked my interest but for now i will stay inside this new boat type of medium displacement, fast cruiser racers, fin keeled and seperste rudder. I am already breaking out in spots even considering such modern departure from the traditional.

Maybe that is the source of my difficulty with my Moody 34. It was a step too far too soon and I can't handle it. Centre cockpit, wheel steered, bolted fin keel with seperate rudder, no forward stays just a baby stay. Retrouse stern, OK some of you are laughing but a contessa 32 that is tiller steered encapsulated lead keel with narrow beam is a small step backwords that I find exciting.

 

[BurnitBlue]

This yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/1991-barbican-33-mk-11-6198283/ is a much more sensible thing for him to buy, although it has been for sale for some time so maybe something not quite right about it.

I saw a Barbican 33 at pinnacle yachts in Corfu. It had a badly peeling teak deck. Everyone knows the terms and conditions for the forum. It is mandatory to never buy a boat with a teak deck. Unless it is a HR 352 and the seller will reduce the price enough to replace it.

 

[Concerto]

I would love to look at other boats if I knew what I was looking at. As Tranona and a few others on this forum will tell you I have prejudice based on traditional body shape.like the Nicholson 32, Rustler 31 long keel tiller steered heavy displacement. Believe me, looking at a Contessa 32 is already a massive departure from my natural choice. I am proud that I have taken this tiny step away from Nicholson 32 concept.

I see boats today with no transom, two wheels, two rudders, a thin narrow keel with a bulb at the bottom. Three spresders but no backstay. Carbon fibre, kavlar sails, what the heck is a code zero? Plumb bows even retrouse bows when I haven't taken in retrouse sterns yet. No, I must limit myself to a small choice that I am familiar with.

Thanks for the suggestions. They have certainly peaked my interest but for now i will stay inside this new boat type of medium displacement, fast cruiser racers, fin keeled and seperste rudder. I am already breaking out in spots even considering such modern departure from the traditional.

Maybe that is the source of my difficulty with my Moody 34. It was a step too far too soon and I can't handle it. Centre cockpit, wheel steered, bolted fin keel with seperate rudder, no forward stays just a baby stay. Retrouse stern, OK some of you are laughing but a contessa 32 that is tiller steered encapsulated lead keel with narrow beam is a small step backwords that I find exciting.

Having sailed on a Nich 32 (Mk 1) I can say the one big thing I hated was how wet it was beating upwind. It is an incredibly old design that started life in 1962. Yes they are easy to sail and well balanced, plus used for extended cruising - but the internal space is limited.

Sorry BurnitBlue but your idea of boat design is that 50 year old designs are better than anything else. Having been sailing for over half a century, I certainly believe there have been some massive design improvements. To me the biggest has been getting rid of long encapsulated keels with the rudder hung on the back edge. These boats are too directionally stable and I can quote when my parents had a Northerney 34, a classic CR Holman long keel design. We started racing with this boat against the early fin and separate rudder designs. Down wind we perpetually rolled 45 to 45 when under spinnaker, she was an easy boat to broach due to being too directional stable, plus she was a pig to reverse. By comparison the more modern designs of the time never suffered any of these.

I have sailed on some extreme boats, including pushing them beyond their usual limits like planing a Nich 30 in the early 1970's on a number of occassions in heavy winds under spinnaker. Now days I do not want pure performance, but a fast comfortable ride, hence I bought a Fulmar. Personally I dislike some of the very latest designed yachts for many of the points you mentioned plus some you have not.

Choosing any boat will always be a compromise and finding the right one for yourself may take a long time and purchasing a number of yachts - assuming your parameters remain the same over time.

My advice would be to sort the Moody out to find what the problems are and I feel sure you will then enjoy sailing her.

 

[BurnitBlue]

I woke up this morning with a feeling of certainty that my last comment yesterday had hit the nail on the head. I was moving back into my comfort zone. Aft cockpit, tiller steered, encapsulated keel, 3 part rigging, keel hung rudder or at least a full skeg. Heavy displacement etc.

Strange that in my second post asking for help in looking for a less expensive Contessa 32 I gave myself a clue. (I hate to blame the boat but the Moody and I are an impossible ""fit"). Was this my subconcious trying to break through? What do "they" say ... listen to your heart?.

So thanks everyone for your help, we got there in the end. I am free to widen the search for a replacement boat with a better idea of what I am looking for, and why. Calm down Tranona, we have discussed this old verses new many times as I recall.

All my previous boats from IF Folkboat, to HR35 Rasmus have been of the early GRP period. The Moody was a significant departure. Actually the Rasmus was wheel steered centre cockpit. During the last year I owned her I removed the wheel and used the emergency tiller and I disliked the centre cockpit. The Moody was a step out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Thank you all.

 

[BurnitBlue]

Having sailed on a Nich 32 (Mk 1) I can say the one big thing I hated was how wet it was beating upwind. It is an incredibly old design that started life in 1962. Yes they are easy to sail and well balanced, plus used for extended cruising - but the internal space is limited.

Sorry BurnitBlue but your idea of boat design is that 50 year old designs are better than anything else. Having been sailing for over half a century, I certainly believe there have been some massive design improvements. To me the biggest has been getting rid of long encapsulated keels with the rudder hung on the back edge. These boats are too directionally stable and I can quote when my parents had a Northerney 34, a classic CR Holman long keel design. We started racing with this boat against the early fin and separate rudder designs. Down wind we perpetually rolled 45 to 45 when under spinnaker, she was an easy boat to broach due to being too directional stable, plus she was a pig to reverse. By comparison the more modern designs of the time never suffered any of these.

I have sailed on some extreme boats, including pushing them beyond their usual limits like planing a Nich 30 in the early 1970's on a number of occassions in heavy winds under spinnaker. Now days I do not want pure performance, but a fast comfortable ride, hence I bought a Fulmar. Personally I dislike some of the very latest designed yachts for many of the points you mentioned plus some you have not.

Choosing any boat will always be a compromise and finding the right one for yourself may take a long time and purchasing a number of yachts - assuming your parameters remain the same over time.

My advice would be to sort the Moody out to find what the problems are and I feel sure you will then enjoy sailing her.

Thanks for the advice. I read your post after I posted my thanks to the forum. It was like a blast from the past. Almost identical to the posts I read years ago when I was looking to replace my HR Rasmus. I envy your experience with the Nich 32. I almost bought one many times but the osmosis issue put me off. I don'mind being wet. I sailed my IF in the Baltic and Med.

Blueboatman mentioned that the Rustler 36 was worth looking at as she was just a big folkboat. That may have been the glimmer of light because reading that sent the proverbial shiver down my spine.

 

[doug748]

Thanks for the line drawing. Answers almost all questions of seaworthiness . Honestly, the only part of the Contessa 32 that I find wrong is the counter stern. As I understand it this feature is based on IOR rules to increase water line when heeled. I am not bothered really and I can live with it.

Just read about the rapid sinking of a Round the Globe yacht. Looked at a poor photograph and it showed a counter stern, IMO the speed of water ingress points to a hull failure not a through hull or something. Without saying anything further about that incident, can I point out the the original folkboat was drawn with a counter stern. Tord Sunden was commissioned to vet the design which he did by removing the counter because it was a source of weakness and actually achieved nothing. The magazines of the day were horrified and called it a dog without a tail.

History of counters have proved that they are OK and do not fail. But they probably stop the stern from digging in at speed. They certainly add to the balance and beauty of her.

Now, from extensive reading and even more extensive forgetting, here you go:

The Contessa was never an IOR boat the scheme did not emerge fully till the very early seventies by which time the first boat was already sailing, design started in 1969. We know that Jeremy Rogers has said (through the writing of Fiona, his wife) he wanted to design a fast boat, free of any distortions due to specific rating rules. Of course you can't ignore the dictates of fashion, tumblehome (popular later under IOR) was trendy and it exists on the Contessa in some sections and, of course, the stern is in many ways a throw back to the old UK rule which encouraged short waterlines and overhangs.
In many ways the 32 is everything that typical later IOR boats were not, Long and thin, high ballast ratio, restrained beam

It's interesting that the earlier link to the She 31 on Yachtsnet reveals the following:

"Yachting Monthly" recently described them as "..... regarded by many as the epitome of good IOR design".

Yet the She was first produced in 1969, obviously designed well before. So the YM remark is either a subtle comment on the power of the emerging rule or just the usual misconception which has become so a commonplace by repetition.


Sunden had the job of designing a wooden boat from a number of design proposals, in wood. Any complex stern is tricky and expensive in timber; it made good sense for a low cost "Peoples Boat" to crop if off short. It also meant that the rudder could be mounted in a robust and convenient manner.
Many of the cheap plywood home build designs of the 1950's did a similar thing to good effect, as well as a good deal of more sophisticated boats like the Twister etc, in never did those boats much harm either in appearance or performance, though it must have looked odd to the old boys at the Scandinavian Yacht Union.

The Contessa stern is a beauty, does little harm and probably little direct good either. Hanging a rudder off the transom is fine but putting it under the boat means it is operating in deeper water throughout it's length and in a smoother flow, you can theoretically make it smaller, bring the tiller inboard and create room in the cockpit for racing crews behind the helm. It's also handy to be able to hinge the tiller up easily where it take up negligible room on a mooring. In terms of LOA the transom hung rudder is lost space which a designer may well decide to use in other ways, especially if he feels he can terminate the boat in a more efficient streamlined manner.
I don't think there has ever been any criticism of the stern overhang at sea.

GRP makes it easy to cheaply make what was expensive in timber so the Contessa got it's transom, for which we rejoice. One designer said, when asked about a transom design (I think it may have been Julian Everitt) "Well, I had to do something"

.

 

[underdog]

"If you’re prepared to look at other boats than the Contessa, have a look at the H-323 and H-35. Both are bigger brothers of the h-boat, and share the same lineage, being designed by Hans Groop. " 2 examples attached

 

[awol]

Now, from extensive reading and even more extensive forgetting, here you go:.

.... and from my almost forgotery and also from Fiona - the cockpit width was decided upon jointly with David Sadler and Jeremy in their dining room using the dining chairs. Pity Jeremy wasn't a tad taller!

 

[Daydream believer]

These boats are too directionally stable and I can quote when my parents had a Northerney 34, a classic CR Holman long keel design. We started racing with this boat against the early fin and separate rudder designs. Down wind we perpetually rolled 45 to 45 when under spinnaker, she was an easy boat to broach due to being too directional stable, plus she was a pig to reverse.
..........................................edited

My advice would be to sort the Moody out to find what the problems are and I feel sure you will then enjoy sailing her.

You have been a victim of the "Holman Roll", Even the Bowman 45 suffered from it. Probably the one thing I do not miss from my Stellas. Excellent boats that they were.
But as for your final comment- You are right, but I think that it is clear by now that the OP has his mind set

 

[Zagato]

From what I have read and heard in our boat yard the Contessa was a lightly built boat designed for speed and problems long term can occur. No yacht is perfect however, just a heads up to check chain plates, especially running back stays anchoring points. If you get a Contessa I am sure you will enjoy it and get into the owner appreciation "club". Eric Aandera (Eric the Viking ) certainly puts his larger example through its paces!

I like heavily built strong boats like the Rival and Tradewind which seem to have a good reputation but again not faultless I am sure. There will a Tradewind coming up for sale in a few months once it has completed the GGR... just need to put the interior back in ?... and get the barnacles off!

 

[dunedin]

From what I have read and heard in our boat yard the Contessa was a lightly built boat designed for speed and problems long term can occur. No yacht is perfect however, just a heads up to check chain plates, especially running back stays anchoring points. If you get a Contessa I am sure you will enjoy it and get into the owner appreciation "club".

I like heavily built strong boats like the Rival and Tradewind which seem to have a good reputation but again not faultless I am sure.

Ooh err! A brave man. Quick let’s grab some pop corn and await the incoming