Contessa 32 doppelganger.

[BurnitBlue]

?

Presumably you are planning on buying in the UK - won't see many CO32s for sale elsewhere, nor perhaps many of the similar boats. If the plan really is to just try it for a year to get your confidence back it makes sense to buy the very best you can rather than any "project". That way if you like it you have a good basis for long term ownership and if you don't you can more easily move it on. Good range of boats +/- £30k here theyachtmarket.com/en/boats-for-sale/contessa/sailing-boats/32/

Nail on head. Exactly my thoughts. I discarded a project boat after realising that at the end of the year of sailing I would still have a project boat. On the other hand I am of an age where I may not even be alive at the end of the year and my kids would be left with three top of the line boats to get rid of. They may not appreciate how lucky they are. So it is a balance between selfishness and a new found sense of responsibility I didn't know I had.

You are dead right about the scarcity of Contessa, Rival, Rustler Westerely etc boats in the EU. That brings up the question of VAT among other things. My plan, without actually thinking about it, is to use the "new" boat for Ocean use. Perhaps to the West indies. Being a resident in the EU instant VAT may not even allow me three month temporary import.

I have been reluctant to reveal much of my dreams because like all daft dreams they can be blown away in a puff of reality.

 

[Tranona]

While there are clearly differences in the way different hull shapes behave in different conditions, surely your choice depends on where and how you intend to use the boat and for the majority of people (even ocean cruisers) the proportion of time spent in extreme conditions is small. As this discussion shows the "penalties" of that narrow deep hull form are high from a "liveaboard" point of view and there are other far better balanced designs available in terms of liveability and seaworthiness. The fact that the old hull forms virtually disappeared not long after the CO 32 was designed (and not designed primarily for ocean voyaging) and blue water sailing expanded rapidly suggests that newer hull designs were more suited.

 

[BurnitBlue]

I doubt that. The Fulmar, like the Contessa 32, is renowned for its ability in bad weather. Huge numbers were used for sailing schools etc and out in all weathers. Possibly, just possibly, if planning on sailing round Cape Horn the Fulmar owner might cast an envious eye over the Contessa. But in almost every other conditions the Fulmar will look after its crew very well, and massively drier, than the Contessa - although again, BOTH are undoubtedly great boats.
Indeed, in the real world I have spent countless days in places like the Outer Hebrides having coffee or a beer in harbour with owners of Rustler 36s and other great sea boats whilst bad weather passes, as we choose to wait another day, whilst the only boats departing are the Bavaria and Jeanneau charter boats who need to keep to their schedule set 6 months back sitting in the pub with their mates.

Good argument but I still think the Contessa would arrive first. Charter boats are owned and insured by the charter company. Their crew lose only their deposit and arguably worth every penny giving them stories about rescue by the Ocean going lifeboat just round the corner dispached instantly with a radio call. Keep them in free drinks for a year or two telling their story.

 

[doug748]

The strange thing is that I already own a Contessa 32 doppelganger. She sits peacefully in my garden. An international Folkboat. I have saled her for more than 20 years around Baltic, down to med East and West. Done it twice, down to the Med then back to Sweden. Each trip lasting around 5 years . Like some have mentioned, there are boats that are such a joy to sail that it is a pure delight to set sail anytime and anywhere on a whim. Then I bought the Moody. Forget short sails for the fun of it because I need the engine to get anywhere. My folkboat will sail on the downdraft from a butterfly's wing. The Moody needs the engine most of the time.

BUT, and it is a very big but. My folkboat is tiny down below. Hardly sitting room so forget standing or stooping room. A Portapotti, no stove, no engine, no frig, no water tanks. I lived with these restrictions quite happily for over 10 years. My mistake was buying the Moody. Spoilt rotten. Instant dilitant. No fault of the Moody, she does what she was designed to do.

So I guess what I am looking for is a bridge between the Folkboat and the Moody. Without doing any diligence I decided that the Contessa 32 may be the best boat with minimum compromise. So I may start the sailing year with a Moody in mothballs in Greece, a Contessa to sail anywhere and anytime I want, and a folkboat in my garden to remind me of pure excellence.

My last boat was a IF.

I have never sailed a more enjoyable boat so figuring out what to buy next was tough. I looked at Twisters and a few other things and then bought the first Contessa I set foot on, on the spot, knowing almost nothing about them. Mrs Doug has eyes like saucers, I had assured her I was tyre kicking and had no intention of even thinking about buying. At the time the price would have bought me a good small house in Devon.
Do beware though, you would find the Contessa has a much weightier feel than the Folkboat though that has it's plusses at sea.

My sailing buddy has a Fulmar I like it a lot, another pal has an Elan 333 which I like even more. However neither boat is remotely what the you are looking for, the question was: I can't afford a Contessa is there something cheaper that would sail in a similar fashion? Ignore the spiritual belief, popular on boat forums, that uttering the magic phrases: "A much faster boat" "Much more room inside" settles all arguments. It doesn't, it's facile as well as often being incorrect or wrong headed into the bargain.

BTW if you do look in Europe things like Contessa's come up now and again, at good prices and in the most odd places. There are lots in the Netherlands but for pricing they look to the UK, much better to spot the odd one that comes up in the Med. I met a delightful Frenchman in the summer who was refurbishing his 32 in Marseille, bought it in Spain I think. He said he wanted a simpler, strong sailing boat after years with much larger, more exotic craft.

.

 

[BurnitBlue]

While there are clearly differences in the way different hull shapes behave in different conditions, surely your choice depends on where and how you intend to use the boat and for the majority of people (even ocean cruisers) the proportion of time spent in extreme conditions is small. As this discussion shows the "penalties" of that narrow deep hull form are high from a "liveaboard" point of view and there are other far better balanced designs available in terms of liveability and seaworthiness. The fact that the old hull forms virtually disappeared not long after the CO 32 was designed (and not designed primarily for ocean voyaging) and blue water sailing expanded rapidly suggests that newer hull designs were more suited.

No argument there but it illustrates that you have spent your life working with rational people. In my opinion most folk who buy a boat are basically a wee bit brain damaged. I hold up my hand for that one. But occasionally you may come across a person, like me, who, in an instant of reality, believes that the underwater shape of a flat bottomed boat is inferior to the Vee or hour glass. That, to me, plays a major part in the confidence I assign to a particular design. I also think that in engineering terms it is also a fact.

 

[BurnitBlue]

My last boat was a IF.

I have never sailed a more enjoyable boat so figuring out what to buy next was tough. I looked at Twisters and a few other things and then bought the first Contessa I set foot on, on the spot, knowing almost nothing about them. Mrs Doug has eyes like saucers, I had assured her I was tyre kicking and had no intention of even thinking about buying. At the time the price would have bought me a good small house in Devon.
Do beware though, you would find the Contessa has a much weightier feel than the Folkboat though that has it's plusses at sea.

My sailing buddy has a Fulmar I like it a lot, another pal has an Elan 333 which I like even more. However neither boat is remotely what the you are looking for, the question was: I can't afford a Contessa is there something cheaper that would sail in a similar fashion? Ignore the spiritual belief, popular on boat forums, that uttering the magic phrases: "A much faster boat" "Much more room inside" settles all arguments. It doesn't, it's facile as well as often being incorrect or wrong headed into the bargain.

BTW if you do look in Europe things like Contessa's come up now and again, at good prices and in the most odd places. There are lots in the Netherlands but for pricing they look to the UK, much better to spot the odd one that comes up in the Med. I met a delightful Frenchman in the summer who was refurbishing his 32 in Marseille, bought it in Spain I think. He said he wanted a simpler, strong sailing boat after years with much larger, more exotic craft.

.

In a nutshell, that post says it all. The feeling that a sailing boat design must give priority to sailing and the pleasure it can give and to give a lower priority to interior comfort. I don't know anyone with the ability to sit below in a bad storm admiring the grain in the cupboards while ignoring that the twisting motion of the boat is jamming all the doors.

Beauty is part of it. People call it row away factor. It is an unfathomable mystery.

 

[doug748]

The eagle eyed will see that there are few points of comparison between a Westerly Fulmar and a Contessa 32 hull To put it forward as some sort of alternative might be another case of the forum telling the OP what he should want.


View attachment 149670




On the question of sailing performance through the water, the two are very close and no speeding bullets.
A race hardened Irish boat beat a Contessa by hours in a tough Fastnet about three years ago but it should be said that neither were at the end of the fleet, and both boats were in front of about 25 newer and far bigger contestants.
The results of past Round the Island races are in the public domain and I doubt if any Fulmar has done enough to come inside the top five finishing Contessa 32's, ever in the history of the race, last year the fastest class Westerly was 45 minutes adrift (though Westerly class is probably out for a jolly than being race prepared) Perhaps someone could prove me wrong, you have to dig about between the results book and the spreadsheet to get the info.
Sailing with my pal, he lags well behind much to his disgust, my sails are newer but he won't have it as an explanation. He also has a radar about the size of a dustbin lid.

Fundamentally I don't think the "speed" thing has much meaning for these types of boat, cruising about.

.

 

[steveeasy]

I think it was a great pity when yacht designers started hoarding their boats lines drawing. I recall magazines pooring over them with glee and informed opinion. Yesterday I came across the lines drawing of the Albin Ballad from their assosiation web site. The Swedish answer to the Contessa 32. It became obvious that she was not the boat for me. The hull is almost flat bottomed like the Fulmar. I have not seen line drawings of the Contessa but from photographs she looks more of the classic hour glass. Structurally and comfort of motion the hour glass form is superior.

My take on speed is a practical one. Yachtsnet declares that the Contessa can leave harbour in weather that would pin most other designs to the marina pontoon. So if there were two boats in Brighton (for instance) a Contessa and a Fulmar and the goal was (say) Falmouth the Contessa would arrive first. Despite water line length the Contessa would be eating the miles to Falmouth while the Fulmar was still tied to the dock with her skipper listening to weather forcasts hoping tomorrows weather would be better.

Based on the lines drawing I have seen, both the Ballad and the Fulmar are off my list. I sincerely believe that lines drawing should be part of the package of the boat.

Depends who’s at the helm. Think I’d leave Concerto to that one. I am a fair weather sailor!!
Steveeasy

 

[BurnitBlue]

Thanks for the line drawing. Answers almost all questions of seaworthiness . Honestly, the only part of the Contessa 32 that I find wrong is the counter stern. As I understand it this feature is based on IOR rules to increase water line when heeled. I am not bothered really and I can live with it.

Just read about the rapid sinking of a Round the Globe yacht. Looked at a poor photograph and it showed a counter stern, IMO the speed of water ingress points to a hull failure not a through hull or something. Without saying anything further about that incident, can I point out the the original folkboat was drawn with a counter stern. Tord Sunden was commissioned to vet the design which he did by removing the counter because it was a source of weakness and actually achieved nothing. The magazines of the day were horrified and called it a dog without a tail.

History of counters have proved that they are OK and do not fail. But they probably stop the stern from digging in at speed. They certainly add to the balance and beauty of her.

 

[BurnitBlue]

Depends who’s at the helm. Think I’d leave Concerto to that one. I am a fair weather sailor!!
Steveeasy

I raise you one extra point. I am a downwind fair weather sailor.

 

[BurnitBlue]

Just looked at the link posted by Tranona. 9 examples of Co32 for sale. That must be a big percentage of the total fleet. I wonder why. Anyway I hope my passport arrives before they are all sold.

 

[doug748]

Just one more C32-like boat to add to the list: She 31. The first image on the Yachtsnet page captures the perfection (to me at least) of her lines:

She 31 archive details - Yachtsnet Ltd. online UK yacht brokers - yacht brokerage and boat sales

That is a good shout for the OP's original question, many of the alternatives are up there towards the asking prices for a Contessa. Looks like you might get a reasonable She for half the price, or less:

She 31 for sale UK, She boats for sale, She used boat sales, She Sailing Yachts For Sale 1970 SHE 31 Traveller - Apollo Duck

A later model with the more expansive accommodation.

.

 

[dunedin]

I raise you one extra point. I am a downwind fair weather sailor.

Then don’t buy a boat optimised for upwind like a Contessa !

But hey, let’s not apply head / logic to boat choice decisions

 

[Supertramp]

This started with alternatives to a Contessa 32 and the Fulmar is a good one. Tranona's post #62 is a good summary - start with what you want to do and then consider which boat, especially given you already have two. It's relatively easy to sail a performance boat fast (but not competitively). Heavier designs with less sail area will always be more of a challenge especially in lighter winds and to windward. But most boats reward time spent experimenting with sheeting angles and sail trim. Or in Concerto's case the strength of his gear! Different Hull forms reward different techniques, especially to windward.

A Moody 34 is a cruiser not a racer but can I'm sure be satisfying to sail well. Before embarking on a refit of another 30-40 year old boat I would invest in new sails, possibly a furling gennaker and spend time sailing or racing on someone else's boat to pick up ideas to try.

Or buy a small dayboat or strip out the folkboat just for the sailing pleasure.

 

[Tranona]

No argument there but it illustrates that you have spent your life working with rational people. In my opinion most folk who buy a boat are basically a wee bit brain damaged. I hold up my hand for that one. But occasionally you may come across a person, like me, who, in an instant of reality, believes that the underwater shape of a flat bottomed boat is inferior to the Vee or hour glass. That, to me, plays a major part in the confidence I assign to a particular design. I also think that in engineering terms it is also a fact.

Just to put things in perspective, at the time the CO 32 was at its peak saleswise, those intending to do what you want to do bought one of these


Could not be more different but similar size (and money) at the time. During the 70's and 80's over 40 recorded trans Atlantics and several continuing on through the Pacific, long before such things became commonplace. Not a boat you buy for sailing pleasure, but safe, comfortable and bullet proof. The CO was a product of the cruiser racer fashion at the time, bashing up and down the English Channel in all weathers. Don't think anybody, least of all its designer and builder ever imagined anybody would buy one for long term ocean voyaging. There have of course subsequently been several well known "endurance" type voyages, but the mainstream "liveaboard" new boat buyers very quickly found that boats like the Moodys, Westerlys, HRs, Contests etc were far better prospects (even if most of them had shallower underwater bodies) and the old style Nics etc that had filled that function died a death. Sure there were some like the Tradewind, Rustler, Halmatic 30 that hung on, but in penny numbers. This is of course a UK and to an extent European perspective as the US buyers hung on to the old ways, probably because their designers had access to far eastern builders who could turn out traditional style boats dripping with teak at compeitive prices.

BTW the Golden Hind is mine - a totally irrational purchase as I have no intention of wandering very far from Poole! it is a pleasure to own, though.

 

[geem]

Yes I agree completely. Sailing Ocean is mainly downwind. Not always but mostly.

I raced a Nicholson 42 for three consecutive seasons. Not alone so I actually enjoyed a collective experience. It is not just a matter of helming or tactics. Sailing upwind is hard work, changing sails, tacking, especially single handed. Without a doubt the cockpit layout in the Moody is not easy without crew. The winches are completely out of reach from the helm. Somebody on this forum advised me to sit in front of the wheel close to the main winches. Then helm from the bottom of the wheel. Cancels the 180 degree mirror effect from muscle memory. That did improve things.

I am 6'4" A head banging size in any boat, so I live with it.

Crossing oceans requires different skills to day cruising. You have to deal with sleep deprivation. Making good decisions when extremely tired is not easy. Some people don't cope well. Crossing oceans isn't mainly down wind. An Atlantic West to East Crossing can be all up wind. That was our experience in 2004. If you think 2700nm to windward is easy, think again.
Lots of cruisers do the East to West crossing because it is easy. Bad weather, if it happens, generally comes from behind. It can still be challenging in 45kt squalls at night.
When you are 1000nm from land and something breaks, you have to fix it. Good engineering skills are a bonus and the ability to work upside down in small spaces without getting seasick is useful.
I don't think sailing oceans is easy. I think day sailing between anchorage is easy. That what we do between ocean passages

 

[Concerto]

I think it was a great pity when yacht designers started hoarding their boats lines drawing. I recall magazines pooring over them with glee and informed opinion. Yesterday I came across the lines drawing of the Albin Ballad from their assosiation web site. The Swedish answer to the Contessa 32. It became obvious that she was not the boat for me. The hull is almost flat bottomed like the Fulmar. I have not seen line drawings of the Contessa but from photographs she looks more of the classic hour glass. Structurally and comfort of motion the hour glass form is superior.

My take on speed is a practical one. Yachtsnet declares that the Contessa can leave harbour in weather that would pin most other designs to the marina pontoon. So if there were two boats in Brighton (for instance) a Contessa and a Fulmar and the goal was (say) Falmouth the Contessa would arrive first. Despite water line length the Contessa would be eating the miles to Falmouth while the Fulmar was still tied to the dock with her skipper listening to weather forcasts hoping tomorrows weather would be better.

Based on the lines drawing I have seen, both the Ballad and the Fulmar are off my list. I sincerely believe that lines drawing should be part of the package of the boat.

The Fulmar does not slam going to windward, like modern yachts. The ride is pretty comfortable. Last season I sailed when the forecast was force 7 and this was exceeded on 5 days. This video was on a very rough day and reached force 8 for a while. No other yacht departed that day and Rotrax followed the following day and found it rough, but not as bad as I had.

The other videos of my Round Britain trip I have loaded might change your opinion. Part 6 is almost ready for loading and includes the very "interesting" arrival into the Hoy Sound for Scapa Flow. Well worth watching in my opinion as soon as I load it.

 

[steveeasy]

there are and will always be a lot for sale. They are niche and not everyone’s ideal boat.
Steveeasy

 

[WoodyP]

Depends who’s at the helm. Think I’d leave Concerto to that one. I am a fair weather sailor!!
Steveeasy

Not from what I have seen of your journey.

 

[WoodyP]

Just to put things in perspective, at the time the CO 32 was at its peak saleswise, those intending to do what you want to do bought one of these
View attachment 149693

Could not be more different but similar size (and money) at the time. During the 70's and 80's over 40 recorded trans Atlantics and several continuing on through the Pacific, long before such things became commonplace. Not a boat you buy for sailing pleasure, but safe, comfortable and bullet proof. The CO was a product of the cruiser racer fashion at the time, bashing up and down the English Channel in all weathers. Don't think anybody, least of all its designer and builder ever imagined anybody would buy one for long term ocean voyaging. There have of course subsequently been several well known "endurance" type voyages, but the mainstream "liveaboard" new boat buyers very quickly found that boats like the Moodys, Westerlys, HRs, Contests etc were far better prospects (even if most of them had shallower underwater bodies) and the old style Nics etc that had filled that function died a death. Sure there were some like the Tradewind, Rustler, Halmatic 30 that hung on, but in penny numbers. This is of course a UK and to an extent European perspective as the US buyers hung on to the old ways, probably because their designers had access to far eastern builders who could turn out traditional style boats dripping with teak at compeitive prices.

BTW the Golden Hind is mine - a totally irrational purchase as I have no intention of wandering very far from Poole! it is a pleasure to own, though.

She looks a picture.