Contessa 32 doppelganger.

[Daydream believer]

I hope a joy to sail singlehanded. Again it all depends what you want from a boat. As long as it makes you smile

Tacking that large genoa SH would be hard work up a river. Plus in any sort of breeze one might end up with a lot of it furled making it inefficient. So , unless one bought a smaller jib, I would not like to single hand it. But with a smaller jib the drive from the sails will be different

I also tend to look at cockpits. Deep cockpits are safer in really heavy weather, but we do not always sail in such conditions. My Stellas cockpits had square sides. Nice when sitting in harbour. However, once at sea the boat heels & that square side pushes one's back forwards. That means sitting on the front of the seat with the top edge of the back of the seat forming a ridge in the crew's back. Otherwise, sailing leaning forward, or twisted sideways & having to brace one's self with the legs all the time. Most uncomfortable.

Designers of later GRP solved that, partly by necessity of construction & partly by deliberate design. Cockpits tend to be rounded or have lower backs or splayed backs. But the trade off is reduced support when the boat is upright. In my boat I sit forward more, to a higher section, or my back to the cabin when I want support

In my Stellas I had to sit on the side deck & lean outside the rail. Can one do that on a Contessa?

 

[Keith 66]

Buying a cheap Contessa (or any boat for that matter) & bringing it up to scratch will cost a fortune.
Inlaws had a Contessa that they loved dearly but fil admitted it had issues, Hull to deck joint was leaky, deck was flexy like a trampoline, The interior grp liner in the cabin meant you couldnt get to anything under it.
Worst thing was the dents in the hull, Apparently they were building them so fast that they were ripping them from the mould green & some hulls went into cradles that didnt fit. This caused big dents in the hull. That boat had four dents the biggest on the port side under the main bulkhead was 2 1/2" deep & the one at the aftend was nearly as much over areas the size of a dustbin lid. The yard had simply scribed the bulkheads to fit over the humps inside & glassed them in. Shoddy workmanship.
I filled & faired them & it was a major task.

 

[steveeasy]

Tacking that large genoa SH would be hard work up a river. Plus in any sort of breeze one might end up with a lot of it furled making it inefficient. So , unless one bought a smaller jib, I would not like to single hand it. But with a smaller jib the drive from the sails will be different

I also tend to look at cockpits. Deep cockpits are safer in really heavy weather, but we do not always sail in such conditions. My Stellas cockpits had square sides. Nice when sitting in harbour. However, once at sea the boat heels & that square side pushes one's back forwards. That means sitting on the front of the seat with the top edge of the back of the seat forming a ridge in the crew's back. Otherwise, sailing leaning forward, or twisted sideways & having to brace one's self with the legs all the time. Most uncomfortable.

Designers of later GRP solved that, partly by necessity of construction & partly by deliberate design. Cockpits tend to be rounded or have lower backs or splayed backs. But the trade off is reduced support when the boat is upright. In my boat I sit forward more, to a higher section, or my back to the cabin when I want support

In my Stellas I had to sit on the side deck & lean outside the rail. Can one do that on a Contessa?

Well my last boat was fractional with a smaller jib. Quite envious when sailing on similar boats that had a smaller rig but a large powerful Genoa. there is a big difference and quite apparent when trying to race. Quite like the cockpit. ive been put off by GRP and very large cockpits but its seams proportional. yes fairly deep. with such a shallow curve on the bow your not going to get too much room in the v berth. but a bonus is its dry and indeed quite pleasant when your in. its the getting in thats entertaining. The main cabin is fine. more room than a Twister and better storage.
Just got to install single line reefing and all that goes along with that. and I hope ive got something that will thrill me, not send me to sleep. I want something I can sail in in all weathers and be totally confident in the rig. so might put a smaller jib on for cruising. quite agree about space, but some of the nicest boats offer little in terms of home comforts. Finally more importantly too me , its important how I feel it looks, Time will tell.

Steveeasy

 

[Frogmogman]

I sometimes hear remarks when describing certain yachts that they are doppelgangers of the Contessa 32 at a third of the price. The recent thread about the Pioneir 9 is an example. Swedes boast that their Albin Ballad is also a poor mans Contessa 32.

I am an admirer of the Contessa 32 and I hope to buy one soon but the price for a 35 year old example is beyond my acceptance . There is one for sale right now for nearly £50,000, another for £9,000 which must be a record spread for one design. I would not dare put a toe in those waters because it would need a well informed expert to know where a particular boat lies in that wide price range.

However, I am really tempted by the few genuine examples that have a realistic asking price. But what condition? Therefore I am looking for a poor-mans Contessa 32 in marginal condition. If they really exist. I know that ownership of the genuine article is part of the mystique. A copy can, and probably will not satisfy me so I may be forced to take a chance on a project boat.. I would be interested in your thoughts on this. Realistic price for instance. Can a person be satisfied with a doppelganger?
Thanks.

As with all old boats, the spread on pricing will entirely reflect the love and care that has been lavished versus the amount you’d have to spend to get a rough one up to sniff.

The general rule is to buy the best example that you can afford, as a neglected and unloved boat will end up costing way more than one which has been well maintained and intelligently upgraded in the long run.

 

[steveeasy]

Buying a cheap Contessa (or any boat for that matter) & bringing it up to scratch will cost a fortune.
Inlaws had a Contessa that they loved dearly but fil admitted it had issues, Hull to deck joint was leaky, deck was flexy like a trampoline, The interior grp liner in the cabin meant you couldnt get to anything under it.
Worst thing was the dents in the hull, Apparently they were building them so fast that they were ripping them from the mould green & some hulls went into cradles that didnt fit. This caused big dents in the hull. That boat had four dents the biggest on the port side under the main bulkhead was 2 1/2" deep & the one at the aftend was nearly as much over areas the size of a dustbin lid. The yard had simply scribed the bulkheads to fit over the humps inside & glassed them in. Shoddy workmanship.
I filled & faired them & it was a major task.

Quite agree. Found a cheap Contessa, but the cost to renovate it, to even an acceptable level, far exceeded any realistic resale value. No different to any other boat. No such thing as a cheap boat!!
Steveeasy

 

[dunedin]

Ooops, I didn't expect so many replies so I am at a loss to give a sensible reply. I will give the bare bones for now. I have been trying to escape from Greece for the last five years in my Moody 346. I hate to blame the boat but it has become an obsession with me that the Moody and I are an impossible "fit". I bang my head quite often. I find it difficult to anticipate what movement in roll or pitch it will do next. I am incapable of sailing her efficiently to windward. (Probably why I am afraid to cross the Med East to West). This year 2022 I ended up in hospital as a side issue of Greek heat. I was determined to escape Greece so it was a big disapointment.

I have some money in a UK bank which because I live in Sweden has to stay there to be spent there. Not a tax issue. More complicated. In hospital I decided I need to find out if I was a useless sailor. It is easy to blame the boat so it seemed to me that if I bought a new toy with an impecable sailing reputation I would find out soon enough. So hence the Contessa 32.

I am sure that it is the Moody 346 that is "somehow" the problem. For ME. I have been sailing for many years. Across the Atlantic twice, the Bahamas USA etc. Six different cruising boats I feel that if I cannot handle a Contessa 32 under sail I must accept that my sailing ability has deteriated somewhat. Who knows, maybe the Contessa 32 will ignite something deep and get me back on track.

I think I am going to regret writing this down.

The Moody may not be the best boat in the world …… but it is a pretty decent one and many people sail,them very successfully far and wide.
Not sure why you are finding challenges with it, but perhaps it might be worth getting some on board tuition from an experienced sailing instructor. As well as perhaps topping up your skills and techniques, they will be able to advise if there is something wrong with your boat setup that could be causing issues. Also get a friend to take some photos from off the boat, perhaps in a dinghy, when you are trying to sail to windward. Post on here or Moody Owners site and may get some good suggestions to make improvements.
Also, if finding the boat sluggish, how old and baggy are the sails? A new jib, with decent cloth, well cut and a foam luff might transform the sailing ability to windward - and a lot cheaper than buying a new boat. If that helps, perhaps add a new mainsail, perhaps fully battened.
The Moody 346 is very capable of sailing the Mediterranean around Greece and so.

 

[Stemar]

What does the assembled wisdom think of a Starlight? They come in various sizes, comfortable, reasonably quick and are perfectly capable of blue water cruising. The only downside is the wing keel, which means drying out takes care:

Still, I reckon a fin would have come off a lot worse

I sailed on a friend's 35 several times and she went straight on my I want list. Unfortunately, as my Mum always said of me, I have champagne tastes and beer money.

 

[fredrussell]

Just one more C32-like boat to add to the list: She 31. The first image on the Yachtsnet page captures the perfection (to me at least) of her lines:

She 31 archive details - Yachtsnet Ltd. online UK yacht brokers - yacht brokerage and boat sales

 

[BurnitBlue]

Amazing how your replies have brought me back down to planet earth. In particular regards the comments about the sails. They jogged the memory cells. About four years ago I was hauled out alongside a charter boat from one of those smaller companies. The owner of the company was aboard. A really super guy, I recall he had a badly damaged leg so I was impressed by his courage and later his knowledge.

One morning I hoisted the mainsail to air it out. This sail was almost brand new but had a strange logo. The logo transfers had been removed but a faint immpression survived. The charter boat owner was on his deck prepping his charter boat when he looked at the sail and said it was the logo of charter company he used to work for. Apparantly, it was a fore-runner of a much respected present day company. He dropped a bombshell in my lap when he said that this company never chartered Moody 34 or 346. We concluded that maybe, the sail was from another boat entirely.

Anyway, it was obvious to me that the sail was second hand so I ordered a new one from UK. Then Brexit happened. The sailmaker wanted to delay the sail because he had not worked out yet how to export to EU. No problem, I can wait for things to sort out then order later. Then came Covid19.

Until this morning when I read the replies from this thread I had completely forgotton my suspicion about the mainsail. So back to square one. I will sort the mainsail which must be a mismatch and a pretty good chance that this is the problem. Or am I putting my head back in the sand.

 

[BurnitBlue]

I have placed myself in a bad situation. I know myself well enough to realise that if a She 31, Rival 32, Centurian, Contessa 32 or many of the doppelgangers mentioned here should pull alongside me, put up a "For Sale" sign I would buy her in a heartbeat. The added advantage of being able to load my present stuff over to the "new" solution would be impossible to resist. Add in thoughts of Karma and I am doomed. I think I should stay in bed until mid-summer.

 

[doug748]

Oh its just such a personal choice. Space is such a small price to pay for the looks of the Contessa 32s rear end. Proportional in every way and I hope a joy to sail singlehanded. Again it all depends what you want from a boat. As long as it makes you smile

Steveeasy

They are excellent boats to singlehand.

They are not needy, don't trouble excessively if badly trimmed, don't require constant mainsail reefing, go where they are pointing, ,make life easy for the autohelm, are directionally stable and will sail on untroubled when over canvassed. The cockpit is excellent, all the winches are in the right shop and sitting forward at the helm your companionway instruments (ideal place for a plotter) are within a couple of feet of your eyeballs; in this position, in the lea of the sprayhood, you are perfectly snug and the world is a delight.
They sail very well under genoa only and under main they make slow progress on all points. A particularly nice trick is sailing under main with tiller amidship , where they will jog on to windward unattended at close quarters whilst you do other things.

Under sail they are most predictable and will steer down to very low hull speeds without stalling. When day sailing off moorings I rarely start the engine, either leaving or returning; just too much trouble to run it for a few minutes. You will find you will do passages under sail only, because it is fun and easy. "Poo poo" people will say I can do that as well, but do they?

As you say overlapping genoas are great drivers, you don't lose push off the wind and immediately have to start looking out the code 0. The very large overlapps were hank on sails and only used at very low wind speeds in olden times. Most now settle for 135% ish and you would notice little difference even below 6 - 8 kts, it is a very easily driven hull and will keep on in the lightest conditions. You will get overtaken a lot, usually by boats that have given up and started the engine. ;-)


Having said all that if I where the OP and 6ft 4in tall, I don't think this type or size of boat would be for me.

.

 

[Blueboatman]

They are excellent boats to singlehand.

They are not needy, don't trouble excessively if badly trimmed, don't require constant mainsail reefing, go where they are pointing, ,make life easy for the autohelm, are directionally stable and will sail on untroubled when over canvassed. The cockpit is excellent, all the winches are in the right shop and sitting forward at the helm your companionway instruments (ideal place for a plotter) are within a couple of feet of your eyeballs; in this position, in the lea of the sprayhood, you are perfectly snug and the world is a delight.
They sail very well under genoa only and under main they make slow progress on all points. A particularly nice trick is sailing under main with tiller amidship , where they will jog on to windward unattended at close quarters whilst you do other things.

Under sail they are most predictable and will steer down to very low hull speeds without stalling. When day sailing off moorings I rarely start the engine, either leaving or returning; just too much trouble to run it for a few minutes. You will find you will do passages under sail only, because it is fun and easy. "Poo poo" people will say I can do that as well, but do they?

As you say overlapping genoas are great drivers, you don't lose push off the wind and immediately have to start looking out the code 0. The very large overlapps were hank on sails and only used at very low wind speeds in olden times. Most now settle for 135% ish and you would notice little difference even below 6 - 8 kts, it is a very easily driven hull and will keep on in the lightest conditions. You will get overtaken a lot, usually by boats that have given up and started the engine. ;-)


Having said all that if I where the OP and 6ft 4in tall, I don't think this type or size of boat would be for me.

.

Love it
The test of a really good boat is that you just want to go for a sail . Anytime .
To be able to do that without starting the engine and autopilot , even better ..

And come back beaming smile inside and out ?

And to know that whatever the weather chooses to do , ( and it does doesn’t it ?) you’ll be just fine.

I might suggest to the OP though a bit of perspective - sell the Moody , put the stuff in storage for a year and take a break from boats period .

 

[BurnitBlue]

They are excellent boats to singlehand.

They are not needy, don't trouble excessively if badly trimmed, don't require constant mainsail reefing, go where they are pointing, ,make life easy for the autohelm, are directionally stable and will sail on untroubled when over canvassed. The cockpit is excellent, all the winches are in the right shop and sitting forward at the helm your companionway instruments (ideal place for a plotter) are within a couple of feet of your eyeballs; in this position, in the lea of the sprayhood, you are perfectly snug and the world is a delight.
They sail very well under genoa only and under main they make slow progress on all points. A particularly nice trick is sailing under main with tiller amidship , where they will jog on to windward unattended at close quarters whilst you do other things.

Under sail they are most predictable and will steer down to very low hull speeds without stalling. When day sailing off moorings I rarely start the engine, either leaving or returning; just too much trouble to run it for a few minutes. You will find you will do passages under sail only, because it is fun and easy. "Poo poo" people will say I can do that as well, but do they?

As you say overlapping genoas are great drivers, you don't lose push off the wind and immediately have to start looking out the code 0. The very large overlapps were hank on sails and only used at very low wind speeds in olden times. Most now settle for 135% ish and you would notice little difference even below 6 - 8 kts, it is a very easily driven hull and will keep on in the lightest conditions. You will get overtaken a lot, usually by boats that have given up and started the engine. ;-)


Having said all that if I where the OP and 6ft 4in tall, I don't think this type or size of boat would be for me.

.

Thanks for that summary. I hope you were not being ironic and that you own or have experience of sailing one.

Being 6'4" has been a problem all my life. Shoes and clothes do not fit. I am fed up with buying rubbish like spectacular shirts just because they fit. In the days when UK had an army I could always find something in the army and navy stores. Not any more. The Contessa 32 was the Army choice for their "club" some years ago. I wish they pensioned them off in the same Army Navy store.

Despite, my reading and learning from this thread my plan is still active. Basically to update the Moody ready to sell should the experiment fail, then mothball her for 2023. Buy a Contessa 32 or doppelganger for a year then sell either one depending on results. Yes I will lose a bit of money but so what. Sailing is my life. I need it. Money is just a handy token to facilitate this.

There is a lot of talk about the great reset and inflation. Sanctions and the loss of dollar hegonomy leans me towards switching to assets rather than wait for my spare cash to dissapear into dust.

Gee whiz I am drifting my own thread. Back to the search and discussion. I want a Contessa 32 or very close doppelganger because this will be an experiment for just a year so i want it to be conclusive using a pure sailing machine.

 

[Daydream believer]

I might suggest to the OP though a bit of perspective - sell the Moody , put the stuff in storage for a year and take a break from boats period .

What on earth is the point of that. Lose a year of one's sailing life? Not my view, but to each his own.

 

[Blueboatman]

What on earth is the point of that. Lose a year of one's sailing life? Not my view, but to each his own.

Sure
I have done it regularly
And return refreshed
Each indeed to their own

 

[westhinder]

What does the assembled wisdom think of a Starlight? They come in various sizes, comfortable, reasonably quick and are perfectly capable of blue water cruising. The only downside is the wing keel, which means drying out takes care:

Still, I reckon a fin would have come off a lot worse

I sailed on a friend's 35 several times and she went straight on my I want list. Unfortunately, as my Mum always said of me, I have champagne tastes and beer money.

Yes, of course, great boat but a totally different beast from the C32 or similar the OP asked about. Better sail performance, lots more space, wheel instead of tiller.
I went from a Rival 34 that I owned for 11 years and dearly loved to a Starlight 39 that I have owned for 11 years now and that I’m even more fond of. It was quite a change and it took a good bit of adapting to the new boat, but it was fully worth it.
Starlights are available in fin keel and wing keel versions, both have good reviews. Mine is a fin keel, so can’t comment on the wing keel.

 

[BurnitBlue]

Sure
I have done it regularly
And return refreshed
Each indeed to their own

Not me. A year is a long time. I recall a well known sailor who was also a mental health worker who got fed up with folks who (to solve their issues) declared their intention to buy a boat in a few years and sail round the world. His reply was a disbeleiving stare with "Who promised YOU tomorrow?"

 

[Daydream believer]

Sure
I have done it regularly
And return refreshed
Each indeed to their own

I suppose it amounts to how keen one is to go sailing. Some are not so committed as others.

 

[KevinV]

I think there's a huge placebo/ nocebo thing going on with boats for those of us for whom it's an emotional exercise, not simply a technical one - we have to feel "at one" with the boat, trust it, believe we can do anything together. You've taken against the Moody, so get rid, it'll never work for you. Don't bother with a clone, you'll just tell yourself it isn't right because it isn't a Contessa. If a Contessa 32 is the dream, then go for it, life is too short in my opinion.

That said, it might be an idea to hire an instructor/ racer/ sailmaker for a day to see if you are being too harsh on yourself or the Moody - perhaps there really is something woefully wrong with the thing and you're actually doing everything right, perhaps you're asking the wrong questions, perhaps you've taught yourself bad habits. An outsider's fresh eyes can be really helpful.

 

[Blueboatman]

I suppose it amounts to how keen one is to go sailing. Some are not so committed as others.

I’ve probably lived years ( and years!) onboard and sailed a fair bit too over the years
I do other things too
And boats can consume an awful lot of one’s time whether you are aboard or not

I do hope the OP isn’t jumping from one boat to another without due diligence . But if he chooses to, at the end of the day , so what ?

I too am a massive believer in ‘don’t tell us what you’re gonna do, show me what you’ve done….’