Contessa 32 doppelganger.

[BurnitBlue]

The strange thing is that I already own a Contessa 32 doppelganger. She sits peacefully in my garden. An international Folkboat. I have saled her for more than 20 years around Baltic, down to med East and West. Done it twice, down to the Med then back to Sweden. Each trip lasting around 5 years . Like some have mentioned, there are boats that are such a joy to sail that it is a pure delight to set sail anytime and anywhere on a whim. Then I bought the Moody. Forget short sails for the fun of it because I need the engine to get anywhere. My folkboat will sail on the downdraft from a butterfly's wing. The Moody needs the engine most of the time.

BUT, and it is a very big but. My folkboat is tiny down below. Hardly sitting room so forget standing or stooping room. A Portapotti, no stove, no engine, no frig, no water tanks. I lived with these restrictions quite happily for over 10 years. My mistake was buying the Moody. Spoilt rotten. Instant dilitant. No fault of the Moody, she does what she was designed to do.

So I guess what I am looking for is a bridge between the Folkboat and the Moody. Without doing any diligence I decided that the Contessa 32 may be the best boat with minimum compromise. So I may start the sailing year with a Moody in mothballs in Greece, a Contessa to sail anywhere and anytime I want, and a folkboat in my garden to remind me of pure excellence.

 

[steveeasy]

Well from experiance any boat is only as good as the sails one has.
My twister had a taller fractional rig with a smaller Genoa.
I am sad to say with the smaller Genoa and without in essence a larger main it was at times disappointing. Twisters were designed to have a fairly large Genoa. So sails really are critical for sailing performance enhanced by good sail trim.
A She 31 is a wonderful boat and they demand a high price. On very good advice I believe not much between a Contessa 32 and a She 31 in terms of performance. How that is measured I don’t know. I suspect who crosses the finishing line first.

Sailing a boat with efficient and well trimmed sails is breathtaking. You know when everything is right. What a joy it can be. Not always easy to achieve but boy can it put a smile on your face.
what ever you decide I am sure it will be right. Having never sailed my new boat yet she better live up to my expectations but I have it on good advice I won’t be dissapointed.
As for a folkboat. Must be a gem to sail. Light with a big rig and good sails. You’d not go far wrong if performance is what you seek
Steveeasy

 

[dunedin]

The strange thing is that I already own a Contessa 32 doppelganger. She sits peacefully in my garden. An international Folkboat. I have saled her for more than 20 years around Baltic, down to med East and West. Done it twice, down to the Med then back to Sweden. Each trip lasting around 5 years . Like some have mentioned, there are boats that are such a joy to sail that it is a pure delight to set sail anytime and anywhere on a whim. Then I bought the Moody. Forget short sails for the fun of it because I need the engine to get anywhere. My folkboat will sail on the downdraft from a butterfly's wing. The Moody needs the engine most of the time.

BUT, and it is a very big but. My folkboat is tiny down below. Hardly sitting room so forget standing or stooping room. A Portapotti, no stove, no engine, no frig, no water tanks. I lived with these restrictions quite happily for over 10 years. My mistake was buying the Moody. Spoilt rotten. Instant dilitant. No fault of the Moody, she does what she was designed to do.

So I guess what I am looking for is a bridge between the Folkboat and the Moody. Without doing any diligence I decided that the Contessa 32 may be the best boat with minimum compromise. So I may start the sailing year with a Moody in mothballs in Greece, a Contessa to sail anywhere and anytime I want, and a folkboat in my garden to remind me of pure excellence.

If you like performance have a look at an Elan (not the Impressions, but Elan 333 and the like). As long as not an ex rental with furling in mast main, will be more fun and much faster than both your Folkboat and Contessa 32, and massively bigger inside

 

[Concerto]

The Fulmar has a ¾ rig, so small headsail and large mainsail. So easy to control. With the sails balanced, she will sail for about a minute without coming off course which for a fin with balanced rudder is exceptional. Performance wise the Fulmar will out sail a Contessa 32 and a Moody 346. She is a joy to sail and I normally sail with winds forecast at Force 7, but this past season I had 4 times with Force 8 and one day hitting Force 9 and Concerto performed perfectly.

Compared to a Contessa 32, the only thing I think is better than the Fulmar is the row away factor. The Fulmar certainly has nice lines compared to more modern yachts.

 

[BurnitBlue]

Spent most of the afternoon reading the specs of all the suggestions. Some are tempting but I dare not investigate the actual boats for sale too closely. I still have not got my new passport back from UK for the simple reason they have not yet received my old one. It seems to have got lost. The tracking from Sweden to UK stops at the point it leaves the country. I am not worried because I sent it in the official envelope with expensive recomended service including customs documents. Not my problem. I hope all this is included in the 11 week process time. In the meantime I am trapped in Sweden.

 

[bignick]

As Wandsworth said many posts ago, if you do decide to buy and renovate a Contessa 32, you would be well advised to watch the “Refit and Sail” videos on YouTube. George is doing a fantastically detailed series of videos on the refit he is undertaking for a customer.

https://www.youtube.com/c/RefitandSail

 

[BurnitBlue]

Wow, Thanks for the link. Lots to learn there.

 

[steveeasy]

Wow, Thanks for the link. Lots to learn there.

Dont be put off though by all the projects. Whilst its nice to remove a water tank and lay new sole boards, its not a necessity. Few boats ever sink from Osmosis and engine bays dont need to be pristine. Owners do get carried away with projects and somewhat irrational spending can take place. If your willing most jobs can be done over winter and spread over tears.

Steveeasy

 

[steveeasy]

The Fulmar has a ¾ rig, so small headsail and large mainsail. So easy to control. With the sails balanced, she will sail for about a minute without coming off course which for a fin with balanced rudder is exceptional. Performance wise the Fulmar will out sail a Contessa 32 and a Moody 346. She is a joy to sail and I normally sail with winds forecast at Force 7, but this past season I had 4 times with Force 8 and one day hitting Force 9 and Concerto performed perfectly.

Compared to a Contessa 32, the only thing I think is better than the Fulmar is the row away factor. The Fulmar certainly has nice lines compared to more modern yachts.

View attachment 149657

Performance wise the Fulmar will out sail a Contessa 32 and a Moody 346

Concerto,
Your boat looks truly fabulous, but youve laid down the gauntlet. Despite being utterly useless in terms of my racing results, I am highly competitive, Not sure any boat will out sail a Contessa, its simply not possible with their lines. like a hot knife thru butter Still I like a man with a sense of humour.

Very Best Wishes.
Steveeasy

 

[Concerto]

Performance wise the Fulmar will out sail a Contessa 32 and a Moody 346

Concerto,
Your boat looks truly fabulous, but youve laid down the gauntlet. Despite being utterly useless in terms of my racing results, I am highly competitive, Not sure any boat will out sail a Contessa, its simply not possible with their lines. like a hot knife in butter. Still I like a man with a sense of humour.

Very Best Wishes.
Steveeasy

The last time I sailed against a Contessa 32, I just walked away from it. No laughing matter.

According to this web site https://ircrating.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/irc_std_hulls_web.pdf this are the IRC ratings for the Contessa 32 and Westerly Fulmar. The higher the numer, the faster the boat.
Contessa 32 9.66
Westerly Fulmar 9.71

 

[awol]

I can't resist any longer. Having had a quarter share of a Fulmar before I took over the care of a CO32 some 17 years ago I claim some knowledge of both. On balance, the CO32 is slower, has less internal volume, needs a bit of grunt with a No1 genoa but gives me so much more sailing pleasure. Of course, if it's pure speed with little headroom you're after then nothing beats an Anderson 22!

 

[steveeasy]

I can't resist any longer. Having had a quarter share of a Fulmar before I took over the care of a CO32 some 17 years ago I claim some knowledge of both. On balance, the CO32 is slower, has less internal volume, needs a bit of grunt with a No1 genoa but gives me so much more sailing pleasure. Of course, if it's pure speed with little headroom you're after then nothing beats an Anderson 22!

Come on, Really! Think you might have got out of bed the wrong side this morning. That’s like saying an F1 car is slower than a Robin Royal. Think you both having a laugh. !!

Steveeasy

 

[Daydream believer]

The last time I sailed against a Contessa 32, I just walked away from it. No laughing matter.

According to this web site https://ircrating.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/irc_std_hulls_web.pdf this are the IRC ratings for the Contessa 32 and Westerly Fulmar. The higher the numer, the faster the boat.
Contessa 32 9.66
Westerly Fulmar 9.71

I think you have to look deeper into that list. These are what the boat rates at under IRC. Some boats rate better & some worse regardless of speed.
ie. You cannot tell me that you are faster than a Pogo 30- 9.14, or almost the same as a figaro 3.-9.76. The Figaro ( & the Pogo) may not be a rocket up wind but you would be wondering where it went off the wind.I also note that the Figaro 3 rates lower than the Figaro2. 10.09. It would never have got out of the mould if that was really the case.
Another thing to consider is the conditions. I used to crew a very well sailed UFO 34-10.46 In light airs the sigma 33 -9.87 owners would often pass us. But as soon as the wind exceeded 18 kts we left them for dead.

I do not know what wind strength best suits a Contessa, but I expect it to be in the higher wind range.
Looking at the hull, I suspect that the Fulmar probably sails ON the water rather than IN it so possibly has a good light air performance. I am only guessing, so I am on sticky ground here.

A large amount is down to the helmsman. Some could not sail to save their lives, whilst others could make a Thames barge plane. The condition of the sails is important. It took me quite a few years & 5 new forestays to find the correct mast rake & rig tension to get the best upwind performance from my boat. But it made .5kts better upwind & easier to maintain it. Some sail with sails that would be better as garden ornaments or tarpaulins. They would not know how to set them even if they did have new ones.
So for all that, the only way to tell if one sort of boat is faster than another is on the race course with several different helmspersons, in several copies of the boats in question. Just passing one on the water may make one feel good ( it does me), but one should ask if it means much. Other than getting to the bar first.

I also note that the rating for the bilge keel Fulmar is the same as the fin. Is that really right? Do the fin keel owners really think that a BK can keep up with them in rough weather.

 

[Daydream believer]

Come on, Really! Think you might have got out of bed the wrong side this morning. That’s like saying an F1 car is slower than a Robin Royal. Think you both having a laugh. !!

Steveeasy

Well some people have just got to face up to facts. Like it or not, The Reliant was a winner in its day.?

 

[DoubleEnder]

Sails sails sails. sails. These are sailing boats. Get good sails and scrub the bottom of the boat. it will make a big difference.

It’s so easy to be seduced by all the gear and equipment that’s available…. Good stuff, but good sails are a joy and a priority. You will love the boat more with good sails. Mmmmmmmm.

 

[Concerto]

I think you have to look deeper into that list. These are what the boat rates at under IRC. Some boats rate better & some worse regardless of speed.
ie. You cannot tell me that you are faster than a Pogo 30- 9.14, or almost the same as a figaro 3.-9.76. The Figaro ( & the Pogo) may not be a rocket up wind but you would be wondering where it went off the wind.I also note that the Figaro 3 rates lower than the Figaro2. 10.09. It would never have got out of the mould if that was really the case.
Another thing to consider is the conditions. I used to crew a very well sailed UFO 34-10.46 In light airs the sigma 33 -9.87 owners would often pass us. But as soon as the wind exceeded 18 kts we left them for dead.

I do not know what wind strength best suits a Contessa, but I expect it to be in the higher wind range.
Looking at the hull, I suspect that the Fulmar probably sails ON the water rather than IN it so possibly has a good light air performance. I am only guessing, so I am on sticky ground here.

A large amount is down to the helmsman. Some could not sail to save their lives, whilst others could make a Thames barge plane. The condition of the sails is important. It took me quite a few years & 5 new forestays to find the correct mast rake & rig tension to get the best upwind performance from my boat. But it made .5kts better upwind & easier to maintain it. Some sail with sails that would be better as garden ornaments or tarpaulins. They would not know how to set them even if they did have new ones.
So for all that, the only way to tell if one sort of boat is faster than another is on the race course with several different helmspersons, in several copies of the boats in question. Just passing one on the water may make one feel good ( it does me), but one should ask if it means much. Other than getting to the bar first.

I also note that the rating for the bilge keel Fulmar is the same as the fin. Is that really right? Do the fin keel owners really think that a BK can keep up with them in rough weather.

I did find it strange the fin and twin keeled Fulmar's were rated the same. Generally the list has some strange ratings, some large yachts seem slow and some small boats exceedingly fast. I could only find this list that had both classes listed. The only other list I found is even more varied, but did not include the Fulmar. https://www.blur.se/polar/IRC_rating.pdf
It is a shame the old Portsmouth Yardstick list for yachts is no longer published.

The Fulmar definitely sits in the water, not on it. The fin ballast ratio is 42.5%, which shows it does not rely on form stability. She is no slouch under sail and these photos show the hull is quite deep, not a skimming dish.





Recently I acquired a photo of the line drawing.



Some yachts certainly perform better in either light winds or stronger winds. The Contessa 32 rig is quite short compared to the Fulmar, and the Fulmar would certainly reef slightly earlier. Both the Contessa 32 and the Fulmar are classics for their design era, despite the Fulmar being designed 8 years later.

 

[dunedin]

I can't resist any longer. Having had a quarter share of a Fulmar before I took over the care of a CO32 some 17 years ago I claim some knowledge of both. On balance, the CO32 is slower, has less internal volume, needs a bit of grunt with a No1 genoa but gives me so much more sailing pleasure. Of course, if it's pure speed with little headroom you're after then nothing beats an Anderson 22!

Interesting as you have clearly sailed both whereas I haven’t. Did you race dinghies in the past?
For me the Fulmar was a superb sailing boat, fast without being furious in stormy weather. One thing I loved about the Fulmar was the 3/4 rig with manageable jib - plus a biggish mainsail that when sailing for fun could be flattened by the backstay and played in and out on the traveller and mainsheet just like a big dinghy. (Or if granny on board, just pop in a reef or 2 - as we did.)
The large genoa and tiny mainsail of the Contessa doesn’t sound like it could be tweaked and played in the same way.
But of course, everybody has different preferences, and both true classics of their eras.

 

[BurnitBlue]

I think it was a great pity when yacht designers started hoarding their boats lines drawing. I recall magazines pooring over them with glee and informed opinion. Yesterday I came across the lines drawing of the Albin Ballad from their assosiation web site. The Swedish answer to the Contessa 32. It became obvious that she was not the boat for me. The hull is almost flat bottomed like the Fulmar. I have not seen line drawings of the Contessa but from photographs she looks more of the classic hour glass. Structurally and comfort of motion the hour glass form is superior.

My take on speed is a practical one. Yachtsnet declares that the Contessa can leave harbour in weather that would pin most other designs to the marina pontoon. So if there were two boats in Brighton (for instance) a Contessa and a Fulmar and the goal was (say) Falmouth the Contessa would arrive first. Despite water line length the Contessa would be eating the miles to Falmouth while the Fulmar was still tied to the dock with her skipper listening to weather forcasts hoping tomorrows weather would be better.

Based on the lines drawing I have seen, both the Ballad and the Fulmar are off my list. I sincerely believe that lines drawing should be part of the package of the boat.

 

[Tranona]

Spent most of the afternoon reading the specs of all the suggestions. Some are tempting but I dare not investigate the actual boats for sale too closely. I still have not got my new passport back from UK for the simple reason they have not yet received my old one. It seems to have got lost. The tracking from Sweden to UK stops at the point it leaves the country. I am not worried because I sent it in the official envelope with expensive recomended service including customs documents. Not my problem. I hope all this is included in the 11 week process time. In the meantime I am trapped in Sweden.

Presumably you are planning on buying in the UK - won't see many CO32s for sale elsewhere, nor perhaps many of the similar boats. If the plan really is to just try it for a year to get your confidence back it makes sense to buy the very best you can rather than any "project". That way if you like it you have a good basis for long term ownership and if you don't you can more easily move it on. Good range of boats +/- £30k here theyachtmarket.com/en/boats-for-sale/contessa/sailing-boats/32/

 

[dunedin]

I think it was a great pity when yacht designers started hoarding their boats lines drawing. I recall magazines pooring over them with glee and informed opinion. Yesterday I came across the lines drawing of the Albin Ballad from their assosiation web site. The Swedish answer to the Contessa 32. It became obvious that she was not the boat for me. The hull is almost flat bottomed like the Fulmar. I have not seen line drawings of the Contessa but from photographs she looks more of the classic hour glass. Structurally and comfort of motion the hour glass form is superior.

My take on speed is a practical one. Yachtsnet declares that the Contessa can leave harbour in weather that would pin most other designs to the marina pontoon. So if there were two boats in Brighton (for instance) a Contessa and a Fulmar and the goal was (say) Falmouth the Contessa would arrive first. Despite water line length the Contessa would be eating the miles to Falmouth while the Fulmar was still tied to the dock with her skipper listening to weather forcasts hoping tomorrows weather would be better.

Based on the lines drawing I have seen, both the Ballad and the Fulmar are off my list. I sincerely believe that lines drawing should be part of the package of the boat.

I doubt that. The Fulmar, like the Contessa 32, is renowned for its ability in bad weather. Huge numbers were used for sailing schools etc and out in all weathers. Possibly, just possibly, if planning on sailing round Cape Horn the Fulmar owner might cast an envious eye over the Contessa. But in almost every other conditions the Fulmar will look after its crew very well, and massively drier, than the Contessa - although again, BOTH are undoubtedly great boats.
Indeed, in the real world I have spent countless days in places like the Outer Hebrides having coffee or a beer in harbour with owners of Rustler 36s and other great sea boats whilst bad weather passes, as we choose to wait another day, whilst the only boats departing are the Bavaria and Jeanneau charter boats who need to keep to their schedule set 6 months back sitting in the pub with their mates.