Contessa 32, are they really that good?

[awol]

I reckon you could get a Pogo 1250 for the price of a new C22. Show how daft the price of entry to the cult is!!! No shortage of space in a 1250. Dry as well.

I quite like the idea of a CO32 cult. I wonder who or what divinity we follow? Sadler, Rogers, Ker, Kretschmer - all of whom I expect would laugh at the idea? Perhaps a student could pen a PhD thesis on the decision making involved in discerning people commisioning a new CO32 instead of spending on the many other outlets for disposable wealth. Luckily for those less pecunious there are older and cheaper ways of gaining enlightenment.

 

[NE7]

I think the original question should be in context of a rough current value of most contessa 32s being around £20-25k. Certainly when I bought ours the budget came first and I focused on all yachts in that range. If my budget had been £75k it wouldn’t have been a contessa that I bought, let alone a budget of £250k.

 

[Concerto]

A couple of years ago there was a CO32 owner berthed in my marina and he was considering having it fully renovated at Jeremy Rogers yard. He had a thread on the forum about 3 to 4 years ago but I cannot locate it. The basic quote was £45,000 and could easily rise by £10,000 to £15,000 if more problems were found or he wanted extra work. He decided it was not worth it and was looking to buy a larger and newer yacht when I chatted with him.

 

[awol]

A couple of years ago there was a CO32 owner berthed in my marina and he was considering having it fully renovated at Jeremy Rogers yard. He had a thread on the forum about 3 to 4 years ago but I cannot locate it. The basic quote was £45,000 and could easily rise by £10,000 to £15,000 if more problems were found or he wanted extra work. He decided it was not worth it and was looking to buy a larger and newer yacht when I chatted with him.

So £80k for an as new CO32? Maybe if I win the lottery ?

 

[lustyd]

that's a better deal than a factory refurb Aston Martin, and one day I suspect we'll start to see factory refurbs like that for popular boats. Aston make an absolute killing doing it.

 

[JumbleDuck]

that's a better deal than a factory refurb Aston Martin, and one day I suspect we'll start to see factory refurbs like that for popular boats. Aston make an absolute killing doing it.

Yes, that's all the old factory in Newport Pagnell does now, I believe, though they also did a run of brand new DB5s for a cool £3m each. And not even road-legal.

I occasionally wake up in the night screaming about how much the rebuild of my Citroën DS cost me. I could have got a very nice BMW for the money. Still, the BMW would now be worth half what it cost at most and the DS is now worth around what I spent on it ...

 

[Adios]

I occasionally wake up in the night screaming about how much the rebuild of my Citroën DS cost me.

I sometimes wake up screaming thinking of Britain's answer to the DS, the Leyland Princess

 

[JumbleDuck]

I sometimes wake up screaming thinking of Britain's answer to the DS, the Leyland Princess

It wasn't great, but to be fair the Leyland answer to the DS was really the Rover P6, and it was a pretty good answer. And, of course, the Princess led to ...

 

[Zagato]

I always admired this Contessa from my yard, the owner sold to buy a nicer example... I don,t know but think this was an OK buy for around £18500.

Contessa 32 for sale UK, Contessa boats for sale, Contessa used boat sales, Contessa Sailing Yachts For Sale SOLD BY BOSHAM YACHT SALES Contessa 32 Dark Blue Hull - Apollo Duck

 

[Laminar Flow]

Is the Contessa 32 as good as they say? I don't know, but she was worth 230 posts.

I love how a discussion on boats turns to one on cars; anchors next no doubt. CQR ... anyone?

Some say the Co 32 is fast, beautiful - elegant. Indeed she is and she is fast, well, she is 24' DWL fast.


I am a cruising sailor. So are most on this forum. I have done some ocean racing, but really I'm romantically attached to what amounts to 16th century space travel. So let's talk cruising speed.

To go above hull speed, plane even, a boat has to be light. Weight is the enemy of speed. Whenever there is a discussion on speed on this forum, folk immediately quote boats that are significantly larger and lighter than the one being debated. That is nonsense of course.

The average additional load for a cruising boat with a crew of two is:
Coastal: 1500kg
Offshore: 2400kg
In terms of loading this clearly is to the advantage of larger boats.

Once loaded, the benefits and performance of a modern, wide stern, light displacement design are compromised, regardless which brand.

Let's take the perennial favorite - we've had this discussion before - a Pogo 12.50, super light, 22kts, or so, downwind speeds are claimed. I have been assured it is a great cruising machine by it's advocates. So what is it's transoceanic cruising performance?
A while back someone pointed out the video of a transatlantic delivery of a Pogo 40 to the Caribbean. They averaged 7kts on their crossing. I was told that was "pretty good", right?

These are the facts: the Pogo 12.50 has a DWL of 41', in this context, 7kts equates to a relative speed of 1.01. So is that fast?

The general average speed of a fore & aft rigged yacht is 0.9.

So what are comparative average speeds for similar transoceanic passages in cruising trim?
Friends of mine on a Hans Christian 38, DWL 33', crossed the Atlantic in 17 days. that is an average speed of 6.62kts or a relative speed of 1.15.
Dorade, DWL 37', average speed 6.95kts, relative speed 1.14.
Carina, DWL 36.5. average speed 7.13kts, relative speed1.18.

All these boats were, in relative terms, considerably faster than a Pogo 12.5 under similar conditions and with realistic loading. The real irony here is that all the boats I quoted are long keel as well, though I have no particular attachment to the type.

Speed wise, and when one compares apples with apples, i.e. cruising, not racing trim, very little has changed, it seems, since 1931, when Dorade made that passage. Contemporary designs may have more volume and when light a greater performance potential, but once loaded there is little difference.

Whether one likes a boat such as a Contessa 32 is a matter of personal taste. Within the context of a displacement hull of 24' DWL there is no doubt that she is quick enough. Her SA/Displ ratio is given as 15.5, but hat does not consider her era when small mains were augmented by large headsails, so her real ratio would be considerably higher and a ballast/displacement ratio of over 47% indicates that she could stand up to it as well. The Contessa is a displacement hull - as all boats once were and cruising boats tend to be.

 

[michael_w]

Laminar, your weights are a bit on the heavy side. My Contessa 33 (not a 32!) carried 800 Kg in full ocean crossing trim when compared to coastal cruising/racing. Admittedly quite a lot on a boat that had an empty weight of 4200Kg.

 

[Bobc]

Exactly. True wind is what's happening on the surface of the planet your boat sits on. Apparent wind is what your boat is experiencing on the surface of the planet while it's moving, which you base your sail plan on.

I fear that you are wasting your breath. I understand exactly what you are trying to say and agree with you.

 

[fredrussell]

A while back someone pointed out the video of a transatlantic delivery of a Pogo 40 to the Caribbean. They averaged 7kts on their crossing. I was told that was "pretty good", right?

These are the facts: the Pogo 12.50 has a DWL of 41', in this context, 7kts equates to a relative speed of 1.01. So is that fast?

The general average speed of a fore & aft rigged yacht is 0.9.

So what are comparative average speeds for similar transoceanic passages in cruising trim?
Friends of mine on a Hans Christian 38, DWL 33', crossed the Atlantic in 17 days. that is an average speed of 6.62kts or a relative speed of 1.15...

What is the point of comparing cross-Atlantic times unless they’re all doing it at the same time, or at least with identical wind speed and direction? If the Pogo averaged 7kts I’m guessing they had less favourable conditions than the other boats you mention.

A Pogo, or for that matter any other modern cruiser- racer travelling downwind would make a Hans Christian 38 in same place look like it was going backwards.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Laminar, your weights are a bit on the heavy side. My Contessa 33 (not a 32!) carried 800 Kg in full ocean crossing trim when compared to coastal cruising/racing. Admittedly quite a lot on a boat that had an empty weight of 4200Kg.

The numbers are quoted from contemporary cruising surveys (US) and they reflect the tendency to, generally, larger boats these days. It does show however, as in your case, that cruising displacement and the one quoted in brochures are entirely different things.

There are many modes to cross an ocean: Racing, a delivery, crossing for a crossing sake, cruising or voyaging, as in travelling with your home.

To reach above displacement speeds, the buttock lines should not exceed 10 degr. - preferably less. This severely limits load carrying ability for the sake of performance.

 

[Laminar Flow]

What is the point of comparing cross-Atlantic times unless they’re all doing it at the same time, or at least with identical wind speed and direction? If the Pogo averaged 7kts I’m guessing they had less favourable conditions than the other boats you mention.

A Pogo, or for that matter any other modern cruiser- racer travelling downwind would make a Hans Christian 38 in same place look like it was going backwards.

That is actually irrelevant, as cruisers are not racers. However, the Hans Christian I quoted did not sail on it's own that year and by no means did all the boats make the passage in 17 days. The owners were an older couple with their two grown sons. One of the sons had a love interest on my boat and we had sailed earlier and on a more northern route. They carried their chute most of the way; apparently love, or lust as that may be, makes even a heavy double ender go faster.

Geem of this parish here, indeed reports of a Pogo 12.50 he met in the Caribbean, whose owner's were very disappointed with it's cruising performance and that, once it had been loaded for the voyage, from Ireland, if I recall correctly, it sailed no better than any other boat and in some ways worse. Consequently, it made slow passage.

 

[Gixer]

Is the Contessa 32 as good as they say? I don't know, but she was worth 230 posts.

I know, I almost feel guilty starting it!

 

[Laminar Flow]

I know, I almost feel guilty starting it!

And counting, you naughty boy.

 

[fredrussell]

Geem of this parish here, indeed reports of a Pogo 12.50 he met in the Caribbean, whose owner's were very disappointed with it's cruising performance and that, once it had been loaded for the voyage, from Ireland, if I recall correctly, it sailed no better than any other boat and in some ways worse. Consequently, it made slow passage.

In truth, I’m no fan of Pogo boats - you either love or hate the wide-arsed designs and I couldn’t own a boat I didn’t find easy on the eye, but the fact that one couple didn’t get on with their Pogo during a transat, or that one achieved a similar sort of transat time as a heavy displacement cruiser is not proof of much really.

A while back, my Super Seal 26 ‘outsailed’ a Fulmar, tacking up the Orwell in a stiff breeze. It doesn’t mean anything really, the Fulmar is almost certainly the faster boat, but on that day I was having a better sail than he, for any number of reasons.

 

[awol]

One of the bonuses of sailing a CO32 or any other slower boats is the comparisons with other boats progress. Sail faster or point higher than a bigger/newer/whatever boat and one can bask in the prowess iof the boat and helmsman. Fail to keep up and the excuse is there, ready to justify with bigger/newer/whatever as it applies. One of my memorable "victories" was over a 40'ish blue Bendytoy which left Mallaig at the same time as me. It, of course, left me for dead but by the time we were abreast An Sgùr the wind was up and ahead, we had both reefed and I had changed to the storm jib. The Contessa trundled on, the Bendytoy couldn't point with its rolled genoa and its motion was hideous, slamming on every big wave. We were round Ardnamurchan, easing sheets and it was still somewhere near Muck. Unfortunately, such hubris soon gets deflated by such as an A22 hurtling past on the plane!

 

[Laminar Flow]

In truth, I’m no fan of Pogo boats - you either love or hate the wide-arsed designs and I couldn’t own a boat I didn’t find easy on the eye, but the fact that one couple didn’t get on with their Pogo during a transat, or that one achieved a similar sort of transat time as a heavy displacement cruiser is not proof of much really.

A while back, my Super Seal 26 ‘outsailed’ a Fulmar, tacking up the Orwell in a stiff breeze. It doesn’t mean anything really, the Fulmar is almost certainly the faster boat, but on that day I was having a better sail than he, for any number of reasons.

My real point was that, regardless what kind of boat is being discussed, someone will look to demonstrate how terribly inferior it is by comparing it to another of completely different design envelope and,usually a lot larger to boot.
I used the example of the Pogo because it is always brought up to show how splendiferous this boat is ( and other's are not), and in particular the video I referred to. Yet, in relative speed terms and in a real life situation over a longer distance, offering a variety of conditions, it's performance is marginally better than the well established relative average speed for all kinds of sailing yachts, which is 0.9.

I have no doubt whatsoever that a boat of the Pogo type is capable of getting onto a plane, downwind, to achieve high speeds. But that requires certain preconditions among which weight reduction and avoidance is paramount. The potential of this yacht can be spectacular, but it is not universal and it is possible only within a certain window.

There is a significant difference between absolute speeds and relative speeds, relative to DWL; there seems to be some confusion about that.

Within this context, and a DWL of only 24', the Contessa is without doubt a fast enough boat.