Contessa 32, are they really that good?

[Resolution]

Why would you base your reefing on true wind speed? Apparent is what affects sails and handling.

Not quite right: it is apparent wind speed AND direction that affects sails and handling. So instead of two factors, why not just refer to one single measurement? So on my boat with TWS 15 knots I am preparing to reef if going upwind. For off wind legs I know we can carry full sail a bit higher, to 20 knots TWS.
Another reason for tracking TWS at all times is that it is all too easy to be lulled into a sense of security when running downwind . From personal physical sensations one can miss a steady increase in true wind, leading to problems when changing course to upwind.
Fundamental to either method of course is to know what the wind is doing and be ready for changes.

 

[lustyd]

Apparent wind speed is because of the direction, if you turn from a run into the wind you might be adding two beauforts. The apparent wind is what the sail "feels" and so that's always what your reef is based on. True wind is how you work out the upcoming apparent wind, sure I said that, but it's still the apparent wind that you reef to.

 

[TernVI]

I find it more sensible to reef according to the true wind, before altering course to a beat.
But apparent wind is what's actually measured.

 

[lustyd]

I feel like you're not getting it. If you reef for the true wind of 10kt (F3, no reefs) and then sail into the wind to create an apparent wind of 17kt (F5, probably 1-2 reefs) you'll be overcanvassed. You probably think this is what you're saying, but it isn't.

 

[awol]

I feel like you're not getting it. If you reef for the true wind of 10kt (F3, no reefs) and then sail into the wind to create an apparent wind of 17kt (F5, probably 1-2 reefs) you'll be overcanvassed. You probably think this is what you're saying, but it isn't.

Some of us are not phased by the concept of adding and subtracting boat speed to/from TWS and some of us even do simple vector arithmetic for other sailing angles. Unfortunately, my MAB doesn't go upwind at 7kts but then it doesn't need reefing at a measly 17kts AWS, in fact she is just beginning to lift her skirts.

 

[Kukri]

I think that there is a world of difference between cruising and racing, here.

Two centuries ago the East Indiamen snugged down to reefer topsails at night, regardless of the weather, and fifty years after that the China clippers were keeping their studding sails and skysails set at night. The clippers were racing - for 10/s a ton and a hundred guineas for the winning Master. The Indiamen were not.

If cruising we are all taught to carry no more sail downwind than we would carry upwind. If racing - no such thing!

 

[lustyd]

Some of us are not phased by the concept of adding and subtracting boat speed to/from TWS

...to get...apparent wind! So one more time for the slow kids at the back, youre reefing your sail based on apparent wind, which is derived from true wind.

 

[dom]

...to get...apparent wind! So one more time for the slow kids at the back, youre reefing your sail based on apparent wind, which is derived from true wind.

Nope, apparent wind is all the boat can measure and precisely what its equipment measures.

TWS, and GWS are then mathematically derived from that based upon other inputs.

 

[lustyd]

Which you then use to work out the apparent wind you'll be sailing in so you can reef appropriately for the apparent wind.

Let me put it this way, what would be your sail plan if the true wind speed is 13kt and coming from the south? If you set sails based on true you can answer the question, if you set them based on apparent you'll need more info.

 

[awol]

Which you then use to work out the apparent wind you'll be sailing in so you can reef appropriately for the apparent wind.

Let me put it this way, what would be your sail plan if the true wind speed is 13kt and coming from the south? If you set sails based on true you can answer the question, if you set them based on apparent you'll need more info.

Easy! With a CO32 it would be full main and No1 genny with a full spinnaker for tracks WbN to EbN. What do I win?

 

[TernVI]

I feel like you're not getting it. If you reef for the true wind of 10kt (F3, no reefs) and then sail into the wind to create an apparent wind of 17kt (F5, probably 1-2 reefs) you'll be overcanvassed. You probably think this is what you're saying, but it isn't.

Beaufort Force is true wind not apparent.

I get what you are thinking, generally we can carry more sail off wind, partly because the apparent wind is less.
So you reef according to what you expect the apparent wind to be.

I'm used to setting sails before measuring the apparent wind. You have to sail into the wind to know the apparent wind on a beat. If I'm sailing down the leeward leg of a race, I want to choose jib or genoa according to the true wind, before I get to the leeward mark. If the leeward leg is taken at angles, the apparent wind can vary a lot. What you need is a handle on the true wind.
If the next leg is a tight reach, the apparent wind might be high, but we are cracked off and can carry more sail.

You need to know true wind and what point of sail, so generally you know, broadly, both true and apparent wind once you are sailing efficiently.
But apparent wind can bite you. If you are powered up, downwind in 12 knots apparent, you can suddenly feel the force of the true wind, if the boat broaches or a wave stops it. That's more obvious in a faster boat which planes, or a multihull.

 

[lustyd]

Easy! With a CO32 it would be full main and No1 genny with a full spinnaker for tracks WbN to EbN. What do I win?

so...you'd need the heading to work out the apparent wind.

 

[lustyd]

TernVI everything you wrote describes setting the sails for the apparent wind while sailing.

 

[TernVI]

True and apparent wind are not independent variables at the end of the day, they are different measures which define the same situation, once the boat speed vector relative to the wind direction is fixed.

But if you've ever sailed with a big asy on a light boat, you will appreciate that apparent wind can vary hugely, a small alteration of course changes the apparent from 5 knots to 15. True wind is real, but you can't directly measure it from a moving boat.

 

[mrming]

Have been working my way through this series of podcasts and have just got to one where John Kretschmer talks about rounding Cape Horn in a Contessa 32. Listen here: John Kretschmer // Sailing Legend & Author — On the Wind Sailing — Overcast

 

[lustyd]

True and apparent wind are not independent variables at the end of the day, they are different measures which define the same situation, once the boat speed vector relative to the wind direction is fixed.

Exactly. True wind is what's happening on the surface of the planet your boat sits on. Apparent wind is what your boat is experiencing on the surface of the planet while it's moving, which you base your sail plan on.

 

[Stemar]

I read somewhere that when racing, you set sail for the steady wind and deal with the gusts. When cruising, you do set sail for the gusts and accept that you're a bit undercanvassed for the steady wind, especially if you want the Admiral to come out with you again.

I get the impression the argument over true vs apparent wind is because people are looking at the same thing, but from a different angle. Anyone who thinks they can look at the forecast and say, It's F4 out there, so I'll set full sail and beat into it in a small boat (adjust the wind for your boat) will quickly discover the excitement of being overcanvassed. OTOH, if they're going downhill, spinny plus whatever white sails you can carry effectively sounds great fun. I don't do spinnies, but Jissel loves being goosewinged.

 

[doug748]

P.S. If I was going to replace her then a Pogo would be top of the list.

Like for like really.

Limited accommodation, wet, and expensive. ?

.

 

[Frogmogman]

Like for like really.

Limited accommodation, wet, and expensive. ?

.

Au contraire.

No shortage of accommodation on a Pogo.

Bags of room.

 

[doris]

Like for like really.

Limited accommodation, wet, and expensive. ?

.

I reckon you could get a Pogo 1250 for the price of a new C22. Show how daft the price of entry to the cult is!!! No shortage of space in a 1250. Dry as well.