Contessa 32, are they really that good?

[matt1]

I need to look more into STIX and other ratings probably, not least to reassure my often sceptical self that it isn't just some over complicated guff the industry came up with to justify selling cheaper to produce boats. A way to mask a shitty AVS.
[/QUOT

We’ll STIX hasn’t exactly been universally adopted. Iirc it was kind of balancing stability and buoyancy so isn’t a pure measure of stability

 

[matt1]

We’ll STIX hasn’t exactly been universally adopted. Iirc it was kind of balancing stability and buoyancy so isn’t a pure measure of stability

 

[TernVI]

I was thinking it could be all three depending on the cirumstances


I haven't updated my thinking since angle of vanishing stability was thought highly important. How likely it is to be inverted, how many critical seconds it would stay inverted, how unhappy is it to lay inverted ie how lucky do you need to be that it will come straight back up again with the next wave as that bavaria is going to need 2 similar freak waves one after the other. These things seem critically important for that extreme weather which no one wants to sail in but which is possible even just going on a jolly to Ireland.
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I need to look more into STIX and other ratings probably, not least to reassure my often sceptical self that it isn't just some over complicated guff the industry came up with to justify selling cheaper to produce boats. A way to mask a shitty AVS.

AVS is vastly over-rated as a magazine article number. A log with a nail in it can have an incredible AVS, but no stability.
Most Co32s no longer have their designed stability characteristics due to the addition of things like roller reefing.
These numbers also relate to flat water. A bigger boat will need a bigger wave to capsize it, generally.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I need to look more into STIX and other ratings probably, not least to reassure my often sceptical self that it isn't just some over complicated guff the industry came up with to justify selling cheaper to produce boats. A way to mask a shitty AVS.

I have no great faith in STIX myself because the formula appears to be a trade secret - you need to pay the RYA loadsamoney to get a rating for a boat. It may be quite reasonable, but obscurity in these things is never a good idea.

 

[Adios]

Yes.
Most of them have clapped out gear that breaks.

That I can believe but talking theoretically more about design

They are slow and will have you out in more adverse weather for longer.

I guess you mean you have more chance outrunning weather in a faster boat? Rather than its slower on all points of sail in big seas? But anyway lets assume nowhere to run too, which shape is more tiring for the same amount of time survival sailing? Which one is better hove to?

They get you wetter.

You'll be thoroughly soaked in both in heavy weather. Is it better to submarine a bit than to be picked up higher and drop off waves?

They roll down wind.

Which is more likely to broach?

You're either on the foredeck changing jibs or there is a lot of genoa rolled up making the rig very inefficient.

Probably splitting hairs for slightly different size genoa both reefed but anyway a skipper can learn to change sails early.

'Most newer designs' covers a vast spectrum of boats. There are many more modern boats which can handle the weather just as well, if not better.

Many? that can handle weather as well as a 70s design? I can't think which ones.

You only have to look at the sea schools to see modern AWBs successfully sailing in anything you'd care to be out in.

large fit crews sure. Successfully ok but which is preferable to the typical situation of sailors here, maybe not so young and short handed?

There are many boats of all eras which are perfectly fine in all weathers. For the price of a Contessa, you can get something else bigger which will be more seaworthy.

For sure they are over priced for the condition they are often in and similar vintage bigger boats can be had for less. But I wouldn't know a boat of newer eras and bigger and more seaworthy for the same money

 

[awol]

Most of them have clapped out gear that breaks.
They are slow and will have you out in more adverse weather for longer.
They get you wetter.
They roll down wind.
You're either on the foredeck changing jibs or there is a lot of genoa rolled up making the rig very inefficient.

I find it difficult not to respond to posts like that - what is the literary equivalent of biting my tongue?

Clapped out gear? I, like may others, have replaced most of the moving parts over the years. Yes, I still have a couiple of IYE tufnol blocks on some lines but they certainly outlast some much later Lewmat examples.
Wetter? Good oilies are the answer.
Roll downwind? Absolutely nothing like as bad as some of the IRC racers I sailed on back in the day and broaching is, unlike some modern AWBs, unusual.
Genoa? Carries the full thing as the main is reefed and I tend to switch to a storm jib after ~30kts and she still powers to windward.

But what does it matter? It seems that CO32 are Marmite boats, either love them or loathe them. I really like mine but am not immune to its shortcomings and it certainly isn't perfect. What I don't understand is why so many seem to have the need to denigrate them.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

The question was " Does anyone dispute that a CO32 is better in adverse weather than most newer designs?"

Therefore:

Yes.
Most of them have clapped out gear that breaks. - Not relevant.
They are slow and will have you out in more adverse weather for longer. - The question is about being out in it.
They get you wetter. - Than what? and Why?
They roll down wind. - Yes but they are less likely to broach and will hove to better than many - Adverse weather.
You're either on the foredeck changing jibs or there is a lot of genoa rolled up making the rig very inefficient. - Not relevant as the same can be said of any yacht.

'Most newer designs' covers a vast spectrum of boats. There are many more modern boats which can handle the weather just as well, if not better. - Give a couple of examples please. 25K budget.

You only have to look at the sea schools to see modern AWBs successfully sailing in anything you'd care to be out in. - Training in an average boat with some vices is a great way to learn.

There are many boats of all eras which are perfectly fine in all weathers. For the price of a Contessa, you can get something else bigger which will be more seaworthy. - Same point as above. Examples please.

 

[Shuggy]

Aye, Shuggy, I reckon we both have the boats that suit us. I look forward to seeing your transom again next year! All my sailing this year has been single-handed or with my wife (restricted sail plan!) and the CO32 has been ideally vice free.

Awol

I am very much looking forward to seeing you back on the water in due course. We were hoping to do the SIPR again this year but I can’t believe it will happen. If it does, beers on board?

shuggy

 

[Shuggy]

If you want to spend your sailing life in an ocean going original Land Rover Defender then have a C32. Maybe you fancy a black and white TV with three channels. Then there’s the 21st century which most of us live in. My last boat went uphill and down hill fast, comfortably and without drowning any crew. Could also carry some fuel and water if you wished, provisions even.
Personally I don’t want to go back to the sixties but different strokes for different folks.

My daily driver is (wait for it) a 20 year old Defender ?

 

[Just_sayin']

What I don't understand is why so many seem to have the need to denigrate them.

Oh the irony of that comment coming from someone who used to (still does?) denigrate so-called AWB's.

 

[Maxim FR11]

For me, it seems to boil down to two questions

1) If you had, say, £25 - £35 k to spend on a c 32'/ 10 m for family cruising, the occasional round-the-cans race and could deliver a once-in-a-lifetime ocean crossing, what would be a 'better' alternative?

2) If you wanted a new c 32/' 10 m today to achieve the same things, what's available (production boat) and at what cost?

... and what might be learnt from the 'compare and contrast'?

 

[Stemar]

Yes.
Most of them have clapped out gear that breaks.
They are slow and will have you out in more adverse weather for longer.
They get you wetter.
They roll down wind.
You're either on the foredeck changing jibs or there is a lot of genoa rolled up making the rig very inefficient.

'Most newer designs' covers a vast spectrum of boats. There are many more modern boats which can handle the weather just as well, if not better.
You only have to look at the sea schools to see modern AWBs successfully sailing in anything you'd care to be out in.
There are many boats of all eras which are perfectly fine in all weathers. For the price of a Contessa, you can get something else bigger which will be more seaworthy.

I'll put an opposite point. The thread about being out in a gale reminded me of the wide open spaces on an AWB, and the frequent lack of handholds below. That tiny space in the CO32 means there's less distance to be thrown and, consequent less risk of injury.

I had a trip to A&E after a trip back from Poole in silly winds (silly to be out in ) and a friend did permanent damage to his back coming back from Cherbourg in a bumpy 7, both in big AWBs.

 

[Kukri]

I've got a 45. Have to agree. Quite wet, very good in the rough stuff. Still goes well in light airs with a big head sail.

55 same but more stowage and tankage. Also, lovely cockpit.

If the forecabin is empty she is less inclined to take the lazy boat’s route to windward (through every wave rather than over it).

ie. Not Like This:



According to a useful table that came with the boat, she isn’t what Bob Perry would call a cruiser, as the no.1 genoa should come in at 14 knots apparent wind.

 

[doris]

I'll put an opposite point. The thread about being out in a gale reminded me of the wide open spaces on an AWB, and the frequent lack of handholds below. That tiny space in the CO32 means there's less distance to be thrown and, consequent less risk of injury.

I had a trip to A&E after a trip back from Poole in silly winds (silly to be out in ) and a friend did permanent damage to his back coming back from Cherbourg in a bumpy 7, both in big AWBs.

Would you consider a Dehler 39 an AWB?
If so you’re talking tosh. Have been caught in a 9/10 in one and would deffo rather be in that than a C32, by a very long chalk!!! Also a reasonable number of 7/8s so I do have some idea.

 

[Adios]

Would you consider a Dehler 39 an AWB?
If so you’re talking tosh. Have been caught in a 9/10 in one and would deffo rather be in that than a C32, by a very long chalk!!! Also a reasonable number of 7/8s so I do have some idea.

OK if everything goes well, you have sufficient crew, nothing breaks, storm doesn't last too long. How about an epic storm. Days long, sails ripped to shreds, crew ruined. No choice but to lay ahull and strap yourself into your bunk. How would a Dehler 39 with a AVS of 126 https://ircrating.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/stix_web_latest.pdf be compared to a CO32 with an AVS of 155? Which boat will look after you better in extremis?

 

[doris]

OK if everything goes well, you have sufficient crew, nothing breaks, storm doesn't last too long. How about an epic storm. Days long, sails ripped to shreds, crew ruined. No choice but to lay ahull and strap yourself into your bunk. How would a Dehler 39 with a AVS of 126 https://ircrating.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/stix_web_latest.pdf be compared to a CO32 with an AVS of 155? Which boat will look after you better in extremis?

Err the crew was only ever me plus one, sometimes just me.
Inner forestay, heavy/storm jib, three reefs or tri sail. Modern weather input and coms. In other words a well found boat. Deffo better than a submarine but what wtf do I know.
Everyone sailor finds his own path to Davy Jones. Diversity in thinking is everything so everyone to their own.
May 2021 bring you only sunshine, fair winds and a dry foredeck.

 

[Chae_73]

Thread drift, but I'm always curious as to what extent "numbers tell the story".

Earlier this year, I spent many hours reading about seaworthiness and researching boats with the best mathematical characteristics, and then bought something which met none of my original criteria (as far as I know).

I sailed on a Co32 many years ago, and did appreciate some of its sailing characteristics.

A Sigma 38 has surprising poor "numbers" and indeed wouldn't make the cut for some off shore events (according to the irc rating list posted above). I would quite like another go on one, though.

 

[mrming]

Never sailed a Contessa 34 or a Dehler 39, but I have plenty of experience with the smaller Van de Stadt Dehler 34 and I would be happy to sail it in a gale. Fast, stiff, well built and well mannered.

 

[Adios]

Err the crew was only ever me plus one, sometimes just me.
Inner forestay, heavy/storm jib, three reefs or tri sail. Modern weather input and coms. In other words a well found boat. Deffo better than a submarine but what wtf do I know.
Everyone sailor finds his own path to Davy Jones. Diversity in thinking is everything so everyone to their own.
May 2021 bring you only sunshine, fair winds and a dry foredeck.

I was expecting more "TOSH!!!" in the reply but you didn't rise to it!! And for you also an only minimally submerged foredeck

 

[Shuggy]

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We take our first roll in the genoa at about 15 knots true. Second roll at about 18 knots true; third roll at about 22 knots. First reef in the main at about 22 knots; second at about 27; third at about 35.

If we're racing everything stays out until about 30 knots.

I am a bungling amateur but one of the most fun days we've had was in the Round Mull Race 2019 when we came back from the Ross of Mull to Oban with the medium air spinnaker up and full main in 32-36 knots true for about 2.5 hours. No rolling despite having the wind absolutely behind us... I was convinced something would break but it didn't. It was hilarious being part of the fleet arriving at the south end of the Sound of Kerrera with the kite up watching cruisers motorsailing in the opposite direction with three reefs in the main as the RMR fleet shot north at about 13 knots through the water with white knuckles on the wheel.

We have no photos as we were concentrating somewhat. My very experienced crew introduced me to the letterbox drop as without it we were going to be toast. I have never been more grateful for having a loose footed main and retracted lazyjacks.

We have some big plans for 2023-25 and there is no boat I would rather do it on. The boat will be 50 in 2021... as will her skipper. Party anyone?