Compulsory training for raggies?

Observer

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Reading the latest issue of "Lifeboat" magazine (accounts of RNLI rescues) and recalling previous issues, I realised there is a pattern to the rescues.

Apart from the odd fishing boat or person swept off a sea defence, the vast majority of the rescuees, where the conditions are seriously life threatening, are raggies. In this latest issue, one account made it clear that the skipper of the yacht concerned had no idea how to handle his boat in rough weather.

Seems to me that because sailing boats are more capable of handling rough weather than an equivalent sized motor boat, their owners/skippers are more prone to over-estimate their abilities and therefore more likely to get caught out in conditions they're not able to cope with.

By contrast, I suggest, the conditions in which lifeboats are called out to rescue motor boats are likely to be much less severe and probably not at all life threatening. Motor boat skippers are: less likely to set off in bad weather (because it's so damned uncomfortable); get where they're going faster (so less likely to get caught by unexpected bad weather); make fewer night passages (rescues are clearly more difficult/dangerous at night); generally less likely to need the RNLI in bad conditions.

So what? Well, it seems to me that far from it being the case, as raggies are wont to express or imply, that they are somehow superior seamen, they are the ones who need more training - because they get themselves into more serious trouble more often.

Any raggies care to comment?
 

oldgit

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Yes Yes yes yes a thousand times yes..........Oooh and no increase in diesel taxes (from someone totally unbiased honest) please.

Oooh look its still not dark and its nearly 5pm
 

jimi

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I totally support the idea of compulsory training for all those in charge of sea going craft .. paid for by ... aaaaaaaaarggggggghhhhhhhhhhh.........
 

Johnjo

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Re: Typical raggies?

Yeh I know terrible habit, must have picked it up on Mobo chat!!!!!
Still somebodys got to do it.

mike
 

Joe_Cole

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If you look at the statistics which RNLI issues you'll find that you are wrong.

The call-outs are pretty evenly split. On that basis I assume that you'll be arguing for training for all?

Joe Cole
 

Ohdrat

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By it's very nature sailing atracts the more adventurous types where the risk taking is part of the thrill...... however that said like other high risk sports training to handle the more adventurous situations is extremely important and practise and / or experience are very much to be reccommended. That said there is no compulsory training for mountaineers skiers or riders to name three (and there are many more) high risk sports.
 

Observer

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Ah, but my point is that the bad weather rescues, which really put lives in danger, more often concern sailing boats. Read the reports for yourself - and tell me I'm wrong, if you can.

There's not much danger in rescuing a motor boat in good weather with a failed engine. It would be assisted anyway, in time, by a passing boat. It's the foolhardy raggies, overstretching their capabilities, who are the real menace.
 

jimi

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In all seriousness its not so much the weather that is set out in but more to do with the speed at which a safe haven can be reached. I would suspect that sail boats unable to handle bad weather certainly did'nt intend to get it. Probably the best lesson of the lot!
 

Joe_Cole

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Obviously an attempt at a wind up.

However you should look up the statistics, not just a selection of reports. Once you've got all the facts together then try making your case. You'll find you won't be able to.

Regards

Joe
 

clyst

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IMHO life boats should only be called out for life threatening situations . If I was an RNLI crew and was paged, left what I was doing , legged it to the station just to find it was some "stinkie"who had run out of fuel , had a blockage or any other mechanical break down Id be pretty peed off !!! Fend for your selves till your life is in danger "stinkies ".!! So there.

One day all boats will have sails .
Regards

Terry
 
G

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Funny thing that - were did you get the idea sailing is a "risk" sport?

Before I took it up I checked with my private and employers insurance and in neither case was it considered a risk sport from an insurance point of view - nor is it to the best of my knowledge (although transatlantic solo racing might fall into this category...)

Hang gliding, mountain climbing, parachuting and scuba diving all appeared on the list of risk sports, if you're interested. Has it changed?
 

Jools_of_Top_Cat

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Actually from when I was on the crew, you are so far from the line the line is a dot. Crews would much rather venture to sea in a non life threatening situation, just take the time to think it through. The crews of some of the more exposed stations who really do look for a god; would much rather go and tow home before the weather set in.

**disclaimer, did not mean to sound so harsh**

Julian

http://www.ukstaffords.com<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Jools_of_Top_Cat on 17/01/2003 23:38 (server time).</FONT></P>
 

clyst

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Take your point Jools ol' chap but a bet many engine failures are of a minor nature and could be fixed at sea with a little knowledge . Anyway post was ment in a light hearted way as I presume the thread was ment to be . no disrespect to RNLI !!
 

Jools_of_Top_Cat

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I can see that, just find it amusing. Sailing club ethics, you know what I mean, different when we are out there and things start going wrong.

I used to work on trawlers, worked for many skippers and skippered myself for a while. One particular guy I used to work for, would show up for RNLI crew if he was about, used to tell me over and over, if the lifeboat ever came for him he would bury the throttle and try to outrun it.

One afternoon the pressure fell through the floor and he got caught towing in shallow water, the wind was up to F11 gusts, the sea was whipping up around him and his crew. The wheelhouse windows caved and he trully believed this was it, his time was up. According to the lads on the lifeboat when they arrived he did a Tony Bullimore <s> and jumped into the arms of the crew. I would still go to sea with him I would still have 100% confidence, maybe surprising to some people reading this.

Basically, we don't know when we will need help, the situations may be less than something you were comfortable in a few weeks back. Things stack up, there sometimes is nothing you can do. Hopefully we will never see this line to cross, but some of us will, and most of us will judge! It is the nature of the sport. Interesting thread by the way.

Julian

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Observer

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That's true but, on the other hand, a responsible raggie will (or should), I assume, take a longer term view on the weather to compensate.

There is a half-serious point to my post. It is observable, I think, that bad weather rescues by the RNLI are much more often of sailing boats. Is it possible that there is a 'machismo' element at work? - i.e. sailing boat skipper, perhaps not very experienced, sets out on a passage in less than ideal conditions feeling he should be capable of handling a bit of bad weather because - well Ellen MacArthur sailed round the world didn't she?

Raggies are inherently more willing to put up with a bit of discomfort whereas us stinkies are less likely to venture out - if in doubt - because (not inclusively): (a) we're looking for a more comfortable time by definition; and (b) raggie SWMBOs are generally not sailing types and wouldn't let us.
 
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