Talbot
Active member
Wasted my time watching a really lacklustre game squandered by appalling English goal kicking.
/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Come back johnny all is forgiven
- Thread starter Talbot
- Start date
Cornishman
New member
And that was only the rugby. Another Pietersen century and we still lost the ODI in South Africa.
aitchw
New member
We have all but forgotten those turgid England teams of the past but Andy Robinson seems hell bent on bringing them back. If it all depends on the return of one player then we are in desperate trouble.
Nickel
Member
It's going to be a long, long championship for both France and England looking at that performance.
Looks like a great Grand Slam decider in the making for Cardiff on the last weekend - and a long overdue au revoir to Bernie the Door!
Looks like a great Grand Slam decider in the making for Cardiff on the last weekend - and a long overdue au revoir to Bernie the Door!
doca
New member
I thought his name was "jonny", anyway it won't matter because the greens are looking good for the double!
Sybarite
Well-known member
Re: Here I am....
Good time to be an Irishman in France....
Johnny
Good time to be an Irishman in France....
Johnny
cruisingsam
Member
unfortunately i think this is going to be the knee jerk reaction. How can the guy be international fit after not having played for weeks? Bringing him back for England in two weeks time will just result in the same thing happening as happened in November. Better to give him time and be properly fit. IMHO
tome
New member
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory?
nm
nm
aitchw
New member
Totally agree, cruisingsam. Jonny's potential influence in two weeks time is academic. To bring him back to help save face would be a to take a massive risk with his future. The rest of the squad have to do this for themselves and if they can't hack it, well, there's little more to be said. The current side is short of about 6 players of international calibre unless they can learn to functon as a team. If they can do that they might yet do something creditable.
These guys are on big money. They need to start earning it.
These guys are on big money. They need to start earning it.
Metabarca
Well-known member
DIRE, DIRE, DIRE. The Daily Telegraph said it all: the England team will be kicking themselves... but the admonitory kick would probably miss...
So it's back to the England of yore. Frankly, I prefer watching Italy: at least they look as though they're trying!
So it's back to the England of yore. Frankly, I prefer watching Italy: at least they look as though they're trying!
Peppermint
New member
Re: I don\'t know
what it looked like on TV but it looked crap from the N.Stand.
England looked tired. The forwards clearly don't trust the backs and the backs took every bit of, admitedly slow, ball standing still. Thompsons throwing was awful and what on earth was Matt Dawson doing sat on the bench? The most England achieved was to stiffle "le bleu" and stop them running. Englands kicking game was predictable, short and inaccurate. That didn't stop them keeping on kicking though.
With abject performances from the footie team, the cricket team and the rugby team all in one week, it's great to get the nations sporting character back to normal.
what it looked like on TV but it looked crap from the N.Stand.
England looked tired. The forwards clearly don't trust the backs and the backs took every bit of, admitedly slow, ball standing still. Thompsons throwing was awful and what on earth was Matt Dawson doing sat on the bench? The most England achieved was to stiffle "le bleu" and stop them running. Englands kicking game was predictable, short and inaccurate. That didn't stop them keeping on kicking though.
With abject performances from the footie team, the cricket team and the rugby team all in one week, it's great to get the nations sporting character back to normal.
aitchw
New member
OK, so I've had time to sleep on it.
We have a new coach, a new team and now, no pressure as far as the 6 Nations is concerned. We are out of it. So, the perfect opportunity for the development of the squad with real opposition to play against?
France are in an even worse situation team wise so it's time for Ireland and Wales to take up the challenge to represent Northern Hemisphere rugby and I wish them every success in that.
England and France will be back, of that I'm sure but for now it's back to the drawing board.
We have a new coach, a new team and now, no pressure as far as the 6 Nations is concerned. We are out of it. So, the perfect opportunity for the development of the squad with real opposition to play against?
France are in an even worse situation team wise so it's time for Ireland and Wales to take up the challenge to represent Northern Hemisphere rugby and I wish them every success in that.
England and France will be back, of that I'm sure but for now it's back to the drawing board.
Peppermint
New member
Re: Correct
England will be back for the next World Cup. Provided JW or a replacement can be fit and frisky we'll do all right to.
If these abject performances, particularly yesterdays, show us anything at all it's just how important a good kicking game is. Marry scoring points with the boot to not giving away penalties and your going to win.
England will be back for the next World Cup. Provided JW or a replacement can be fit and frisky we'll do all right to.
If these abject performances, particularly yesterdays, show us anything at all it's just how important a good kicking game is. Marry scoring points with the boot to not giving away penalties and your going to win.
Gunfleet
New member
Re: Here I am....
It's always a good time to be an Irishman in France. They love you. Something to do with the revolution, Wolf Tone, Hoche blah blah blah. Romantic tosh!
It's always a good time to be an Irishman in France. They love you. Something to do with the revolution, Wolf Tone, Hoche blah blah blah. Romantic tosh!
axismatt
New member
Over reaction
I have to say I think we are being a bit premature here, I read some where that there before Moody & Corry (the latter of which i thought was outstanding) came back there were 13 injuries to the England Squad. Given this when coupled with the transitional period of the post world cup squad, it was always going to be a difficult time to be an England fan. Personally I thought the first half showed a lot of signs of encouragment, Lewsey is bang on form again - though sadly Robinson looks out of sorts and only seems to be at his best when given no time to think when he can run those instinctive lines. At least we were putting the phases together, supporting and passing out of the tackle.
I admit some of the kicks especially by Hodgson were applaing but i think olly Berkley was a bit hard done by as his were very long range and speculative.
Give Robinson time and remember those to come back including Tins, Abbot, and of course Jonny. The A team also put up a great performance at the Rec beating France in applaing conditions.
Have some faith, do we always have to knock out teams and out sports men & women?
I have to say I think we are being a bit premature here, I read some where that there before Moody & Corry (the latter of which i thought was outstanding) came back there were 13 injuries to the England Squad. Given this when coupled with the transitional period of the post world cup squad, it was always going to be a difficult time to be an England fan. Personally I thought the first half showed a lot of signs of encouragment, Lewsey is bang on form again - though sadly Robinson looks out of sorts and only seems to be at his best when given no time to think when he can run those instinctive lines. At least we were putting the phases together, supporting and passing out of the tackle.
I admit some of the kicks especially by Hodgson were applaing but i think olly Berkley was a bit hard done by as his were very long range and speculative.
Give Robinson time and remember those to come back including Tins, Abbot, and of course Jonny. The A team also put up a great performance at the Rec beating France in applaing conditions.
Have some faith, do we always have to knock out teams and out sports men & women?
Metabarca
Well-known member
Re: Over reaction
I agree with some of what you say, but ... I can accept moves that don't quite come together, misunderstandings, not quite pulling together as a team because, as you say, the team is newly constituted. What for me was beyond the pale was the standard of kicking; these people spend all day whacking the ball between the posts and around the pitch and a success rate of what, 1 in 4 was it for the penalties?, is just not on for a national side. After all, it's not as though there was a hairy Frenchie charging at him at the time! Nor were most of the penalties particularly hard. After all, Dimitri wotsit did all right, didn't he?!
I agree with some of what you say, but ... I can accept moves that don't quite come together, misunderstandings, not quite pulling together as a team because, as you say, the team is newly constituted. What for me was beyond the pale was the standard of kicking; these people spend all day whacking the ball between the posts and around the pitch and a success rate of what, 1 in 4 was it for the penalties?, is just not on for a national side. After all, it's not as though there was a hairy Frenchie charging at him at the time! Nor were most of the penalties particularly hard. After all, Dimitri wotsit did all right, didn't he?!
pragmatist
Well-known member
Re: Over reaction
I think less of the blame should be laid on the players and rather more on the coach and perhaps captain in terms of decision-making. Why was a specialist goal-kicker left on the bench ? Why was Dawson, who has shown he can kick under pressure, only brought on with 10 minutes to go ? Why did the skipper continue to opt for kicks at goal when plainly both kickers were out of sorts ? Why not go for the corners when the forwards were doing the job ? Robinson (capt) even opted for goal when neither OB or CH had said they could with the last penalty ? I'm afraid I think ARobinson's decision-making in choosing the squad and using subs is as wayward as Woodward's without the flashes of brilliance. Come back Woodie and make the clubs give England more of the players' time.
I think less of the blame should be laid on the players and rather more on the coach and perhaps captain in terms of decision-making. Why was a specialist goal-kicker left on the bench ? Why was Dawson, who has shown he can kick under pressure, only brought on with 10 minutes to go ? Why did the skipper continue to opt for kicks at goal when plainly both kickers were out of sorts ? Why not go for the corners when the forwards were doing the job ? Robinson (capt) even opted for goal when neither OB or CH had said they could with the last penalty ? I'm afraid I think ARobinson's decision-making in choosing the squad and using subs is as wayward as Woodward's without the flashes of brilliance. Come back Woodie and make the clubs give England more of the players' time.
Peppermint
New member
Re: The injury situation
is unlikely to change. These guys play far to much club rugby to avoid them. Several times in both games, with ball in hand, the centres looked puzzled and short of ideas. Ball delivery was painfully slow too.
As to Robinson as captain. I'm not sure it's a good idea to lead from the (full) back. Being captain does appear to have put the mockers on some of his flair play but he works very hard all of the time.
is unlikely to change. These guys play far to much club rugby to avoid them. Several times in both games, with ball in hand, the centres looked puzzled and short of ideas. Ball delivery was painfully slow too.
As to Robinson as captain. I'm not sure it's a good idea to lead from the (full) back. Being captain does appear to have put the mockers on some of his flair play but he works very hard all of the time.
axismatt
New member
Re: Over reaction
True - the goal kicking was well below what they both do for their clubs and the news readers here in Ireland are announcing with thinly masked glee that wilko wont be fir for the Ireland match!
I also agree that JRobinsons decisions left a bit to be desired - i think full back is a hard position to lead from but yes they should have kicked to the corners even with a malfunctioning line out. I also dont think the drop goal at the end was the right decision they should have gone for the line. But I still think its too early to judge the coach - remember when everyone was baying for Sir Clivess blood in the early days?
True - the goal kicking was well below what they both do for their clubs and the news readers here in Ireland are announcing with thinly masked glee that wilko wont be fir for the Ireland match!
I also agree that JRobinsons decisions left a bit to be desired - i think full back is a hard position to lead from but yes they should have kicked to the corners even with a malfunctioning line out. I also dont think the drop goal at the end was the right decision they should have gone for the line. But I still think its too early to judge the coach - remember when everyone was baying for Sir Clivess blood in the early days?
aitchw
New member
Re: I don\'t know
Don't forget there's a bit of history between Dawson and ARobinson. I think Dawson's inclusion on the bench was probably a reluctant decision.
Don't forget there's a bit of history between Dawson and ARobinson. I think Dawson's inclusion on the bench was probably a reluctant decision.