Colregs: Restricted in her Ability to Manœuvre is not intended to be used by leisure yachts.

[Mark-1]

Nonsense!

We've had lots of distinct verdicts and many clear answers.

IMHO this thread has been unique among its kind in that, with a little help from C+L, it has been definitively answered to almost everyone's satisfaction and many of us have learned something.

 

[Caraway]

IMHO this thread has been unique among its kind in that, with a little help from C+L, it has been definitively answered to almost everyone's satisfaction and many of us have learned something.

For that we have

Admiralty Court

None of which is a lot of of use when "This in the Col Regs which may you require you to make a snap decision at sea in order to comply."

Your snap decision looks like it may take over a day.

 

[Elessar]

Since RAM is intended for vessels carrying out work tasks or military duties, it can't legitimately be used by leisure vessels. I can't think of any exceptions.
Replenishment at sea? Surveying?

Made up rule. By you.
Restricted in ability to manoeuvre does not have vessel purpose as a dependency.
You can’t have exceptions (other that made up exceptions) to a made up rule.

 

[Mark-1]

None of which is a lot of of use when "This in the Col Regs which may you require you to make a snap decision at sea in order to comply."

Your snap decision looks like it may take over a day.

I think you're misunderstanding the point of Col regs. Col regs were developed back in the day solely to give people something to argue about in case the internet ever got invented.

If you actually want to avoid crashing into stuff you just keep your eyes open. Like birds and seals and fish do.

?

 

[pyrojames]

What about a yacht engaged in the recovery of a MOB? The vessel can manoeuvre well enough, but it cant get out of the way of another vessel, if she's trying to recover a MOB.

 

[Mark-1]

What about a yacht engaged in the recovery of a MOB? The vessel can manoeuvre well enough, but it cant get out of the way of another vessel, if she's trying to recover a MOB.

IMHO MOB recovery = work = operation

...but I have no evidence for that.

 

[Sandy]

I wonder what the panel thinks about Rule 1 in this situation?

Rule 1
Application
(a)These Rules shall apply to all vessels upon the high seas and in all waters connected therewith navigable by seagoing vessels.

My emphasis.

 

[Mark-1]

I wonder what the panel thinks about Rule 1 in this situation?

My emphasis.

All vessels? Rowing boats?

 

[Gary Fox]

I wonder what the panel thinks about Rule 1 in this situation?

My emphasis.

I think it is what it is; however if a vessel intends to declare a particular hampered status, she must do so justifiably, according to the rule in question.
'Nature of her work' is fairly specific, and examples are given to illustrate the intention of the rule. We have agreed it doesn't have to be paid work (Tillergirl's surveying operations being a good example).
There are ways of legitimately going hampered which some vessels can't do; anyone can go aground, but a chain ferry can't be CBD and a hovercraft can't tow an otter trawl, so the 'all vessels' quote from Rule 1 isn't an argument against us trying to clarify when and whether pleasure yachts can go RAM.
I hope I don't sound argumentative, I'm clarifying my own understanding rather than trying to lay down the law...

 

[Sandy]

I think it is what it is; however if a vessel intends to declare a particular hampered status, she must do so justifiably, according to the rule in question.
'Nature of her work' is fairly specific, and examples are given to illustrate the intention of the rule. We have agreed it doesn't have to be paid work (Tillergirl's surveying operations being a good example).

Before I finished full time work I was involved in writing of regulations, interesting and challenging work when looking at language and how it is used. The way those regulations were framed was broad to narrow.

I can't think of any reason why a sailing vessel less than 13 meters would need to any specific signals, CBD, RAM or NUC apart from trying to make their way through a racing fleet in a very narrow channel, a personal and challenging passage down a very narrow channel in a deep draft boat. Lots of shouty skippers focused on winning rather than good slippering.

Looking at ColRegs they were created by and for working boats. I suspect they never gave leisure craft a seconds thought. We are trying to fit a set of regulations into a context that they were never devised for, but if we follow them the big boats know what to expect.

Does anybody know if lifeboats display any additional signals when needed, e.g towing?

 

[Stemar]

The term "vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver" means a vessel which from the nature of her work is restricted in her ability to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.

On that basis, my comment above about being RAM because of a broken rudder is incorrect.

The term “vessel not under command” means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to manoeuvre as required by these Rules

So NUC doesn't mean I can't move, just that exceptional circumstances, eg, a broken rudder, mean I can't dodge other vessels.

I learned something new today. I'd always thought RAM meant struggling to steer - or busy surveying or whatever and NUC meant adrift.

 

[Mark-1]

Does anybody know if lifeboats display any additional signals when needed, e.g towing?

I don't know but in the days of VHF, and AIS etc I wonder if it's that critical to show lights or shapes in the lifeboat context.

If a lifeboat was doing a planned search pattern it would be RAM AFAIC. But would it indicate that by shapes or would it just tell any approaching vessels the situation on VHF? And would there be any approaching vessels because traffic on 16 would most likely have alerted people plus lifeboats behaving in a searchy sort of way on AIS. We've all heard US warships in the channel radioing individual vessels to tell them to stay clear.

You could really say the same about many RAM craft. I can spot a working dredger from miles off. Finding its day shapes takes a little longer. Ditto anchored ships. Again both are on AIS with their status. (Sometimes the status is even correct.)

Just thinking aloud.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Lots of shouty skippers focused on winning rather than good slippering.

I've heard of maintaining discipline on board, but this is getting ridiculous. Is Denis the Menace in your crew?

 

[dom]

Does anybody know if lifeboats display any additional signals when needed, e.g towing?

Also, doesn't the RNLI sport blue flashing lights and if so how do these fit into the IRPCS?

Some great practical advice here from the RNLI here on towing (Section 11)
Edit: Link in error

 

[Sandy]

I've heard of maintaining discipline on board, but this is getting ridiculous. Is Denis the Menace in your crew?

I hate posting from my phone, but love that predictive text insert...

It was the racing crew that were being slippered. Mine is always a quiet boat.

 

[Gary Fox]

deleted by request

 

[JumbleDuck]

IPad says no... 'Safari can't open the page because it's a local file' whatever that means?

It means you have been given a link to the file on someone else's computer, rather than on the web.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

The Col regs are very much a case of less interpretation the better and don't over analyse the rules. Take them at face value. If you have to make a snap decision, as has been suggested, then clearly the Col regs have not been followed or understood.

 

[capnsensible]

All these terms are well defined, without 'obfuscation', in the Rules, it's the 'intuitive perspectives' which cause the hang-ups..

Personally speaking, I would dearly love to be taught and study them in more detail and take some specific classroom course, followed by an exam or certificate; the RYA YM syllabus is rather light on this specific subject, but I don't know of any such courses. C and L only goes so far. (There is definitely a gap in the market as far as I'm concerned. )

Try Master 200 and the higher certificates. It's all there for the pro sailors. Far more searching than yachtie stuff. Training at nautical colleges like Warsah. Puts these type threads in perspective.

 

[Gary Fox]

Try Master 200 and the higher certificates. It's all there for the pro sailors. Far more searching than yachtie stuff. Training at nautical colleges like Warsah. Puts these type threads in perspective.

Thanks I will have a gander.