ColRegs - Nav Lights

[Roberto]

I was on a night crossing last week when I saw a red over white light on my starboard side, the bearing slowly decreasing so we were in a crossing situation.
At first I thought it was a fishing vessel, a bit far so the red and green sidelights might not be visible. I modified my course to starboard, to let it pass on my port side.
Given how more rapidly the bearing was decreasing, I guessed it was nearer than I thought, but the sidelights were still not visible.
A few minutes after it crossed my bow, the red light disappeared and there was only the white on.

My thoughts: basically, it was not a fishing boat but something else. The only possibility I have found is a sailboat with a tricolour on, plus the masthead light below (flat calm so quite possible).

Is this a possible, and especially a legally correct way of using the nav lights?

I have spent many nights sailing in busy areas but this is the first time I saw this configuration.
I think in the colregs it is not stated that the steaming light must be above the sidelights (true?), although being denominated white mastlight I personally would think so. If this is the case then that sailboat was correct.

If it is so, then why bother having one tricolour (plain sailing)+ masthead white light + additional red and green sidelights on deck as many boats have? The two deck sidelights seem redundant..

thanks


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[jimi]

ANNEX I
POSITIONING AND TECHNICAL DETAILS OF
LIGHTS AND SHAPES

1. Definition

The term "height above the hull" means height above the uppermost continuous deck. This height shall be measured from the position vertically beneath the location of the light.

2. Vertical positioning and spacing of lights

(a) On a power-driven vessel of 20 metres or more in length the masthead lights shall be placed as follows:

(i) the forward masthead light, or if only one masthead light is carried, then that light, at a height above the hull of not less than 6 metres, and, if the breadth of the vessel exceeds 6 metres, then at a height above the hull not less than such breadth, so however that the light need not be placed at a greater height above the hull than 12 metres;
(ii) when two masthead lights are carried the after one shall be at least 4.5 metres vertically higher than the forward one.

(b) The vertical separation of masthead lights of power-driven vessels shall be such that in all normal conditions of trim the after light will be seen over and separate from the forward light at a distance of 1.000 metres from the stem when viewed from sea-level.

(c) The masthead light of a power-driven vessel of 12 metres but less than 20 metres in length shall be placed at a height above the gunwale of not less than 2.5 metres.

(d) A power-driven vessel of less than 12 metres in length may carry the uppermost light at a height of less than 2.5 metres above the gunwale. When however a masthead light is carried in addition to sidelights and a sternlight or the all-round light prescribed in Rule 23(c)(i) is carried in addition to sidelights, then such masthead light or all-round light shall be carried at least 1 metre higher than the sidelights.

(e) One of the two or three masthead lights prescribed for a power-driven vessel when engaged in towing or pushing another vessel shall be placed in the same position as either the forward masthead light or the after masthead light; provided that, if carried on the aftermast, the lowest after masthead light shall be at least 4.5 metres vertically higher than the forward masthead light.

(f) (i) The masthead light or lights prescribed in Rule 23(a) shall be so placed as to be above and clear of all other lights and obstructions except as described in subparagraph (ii).

(ii) When it is impracticable to carry the all-round lights prescribed by Rule 27(b)(i) or Rule 28 below the masthead lights, they may be carried above the after masthead light(s) or vertically in between the forward masthead light(s) and after masthead light(s), provided that in the latter case the requirement of section 3(c) of this Annex shall be complied with.

(g) The sidelights of a power-driven vessel shall be placed at a height above the hull not greater than three quarters of that of the forward masthead light. They shall not be so low as to be interfered with by deck lights.

(h) The sidelights, if in a combined lantern and carried on a power-driven vessel of less than 20 metres in length, shall be placed not less than 1 metre below the masthead light.

(i) When the Rules prescribe two or three lights to be carried in a vertical line, they shall be spaced as follows:

(i) on a vessel of 20 metres in length or more such lights shall be spaced not less than 2 metres apart, and the lowest of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required, be placed at a height of not less than 4 metres above the hull;

(ii) on a vessel of less than 20 metres in length such lights shall be spaced not less than 1 metre apart and the lowest of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required, be placed at a height of not less than 2 metres above the gunwale;

(iii) when three lights are carried they shall be equally spaced.

(j) The lower of the two all-round lights prescribed for a vessel when engaged in fishing shall be at a height above the sidelights not less than twice the distance between the two vertical lights.

(k) The forward anchor light prescribed in Rule 30(a)(i), when two are carried, shall not be less than 4.5 metres above the after one. On a vessel of 50 metres or more in length this forward anchor light shall be placed at a height of not less than 6 metres above the hull.

3 . Horizontal positioning and spacing of lights

(a) When two masthead lights are prescribed for a power-driven vessel, the horizontal distance between them shall not be less than one half of the length of the vessel but need not be more than 100 metres. The forward light shall be placed not more than one quarter of the length of the vessel from the stem.

(b) On a power-driven vessel of 20 metres or more in length the sidelights shall not be placed in front of the forward masthead lights. They shall be placed at or near the side of the vessel.

(c) When the lights prescribed in Rule 27(b)(i) or Rule 28 are placed vertically between the forward masthead light(s) and the after masthead light(s) these all-round lights shall be placed at a horizontal distance of not less than 2 metres from the fore and aft centreline of the vessel in the athwartship direction.

(d) When only one masthead light is prescribed for a powerdriven vessel, this light shall be exhibited forward of amidships; except that a vessel of less than 20 metres in length need not exhibit this light forward of amidships but shall exhibit it as far forward as is practicable


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[CPN]

Sounds as if you saw the tricolour at the masthead and the steaming light.

In my opinion, this is not legal, as the tricolour is only legal on vessels under sail - in which case he shouldn't be showing his steaming light.

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[Roberto]

thanks Jimi! nm

,

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[Roberto]

It also brings confusion: first impression it was a fishing vessel not underway, then as it moved a fishing vessel with §hidden sidelights, then a sailboat under power with the wrong lights.. cases with quite different actions in terms of course to follow

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Roberto on 12/08/2003 15:54 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[h4nym]

Slightly off-beam.... but why is it that the red/green lights are not visible from astern the vessel.

Many many years ago, well before I started boating, I remember a pilot explaining to me that port is left is red etc so you would be able to see immediately whether the aircraft was heading in your direction or towards you...

Why is it that boats aren't allowed to show red/green behind too so mariners can also see very quickly which way they are pointing?

H

<hr width=100% size=1>Life balance?

 

[webcraft]

Err . . .

If you can only see a white light then you know which way the vessel is going. It is goikng away from you. Its port side will be to the left of the white light and its starboard side will be to the right.

You only need to know which way it is gong when there is a risk of collision - ie when it is coming towards you. If you can only see one white light then you are in that 135 deg arc defined as 'astern' and it is your duty as the overtaking vessel to keep clear - someting you should not have any difficulty doing.

I can't see the problem - or am I missing something?

- Nick


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[petery]

I fitted a masthead tricolor/anchor light and before I threw away the port and starboard lights at my bow, I posted a question on this forum.

I was quickly told that the tricolour cannot be used when motoring, but that the anchor light can be used as the steaming light (RYA IRPCS leaflet - comments on rules 20-31) ... so I kept my port and starboard lights!!



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[h4nym]

Fair point, Nick... just to put my thought in some context now that I have been on the water for a few years - I spend most of my life on the Thames - both tidal and locked.
I wonder only that to rely on one white light - esp in such a confined space where there's plenty of opportunity to confuse white lights on the water with those on land, it may be more sensible to allow the full gamut of lights to be used & visible. Can't do any harm, surely! But these are specifically banned by the colregs... y?

Take on board everything u say, tho, about being "my responsbility" if I'm the overtaking / astern vessel

H

<hr width=100% size=1>Life balance?

 

[peterb]

The problem with having nav lights visible in the stern sector would be ambiguity. At present, if you see red or green plus white then you would normally interpret it as masthead and nav lights of a small power vessel, viewed from forward of the stern sector. If you allowed nav lights to be visible all round, then there would be no discrimination between the stern sector and the other sectors. Remember that under power a small vessel is allowed to use an all-round light to replace stern and steaming lights; imagine using an all-round light with 180 degree nav lights and you will see that you couldn't tell if you were overtaking or not.

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[Cornishman]

The term 'masthead light' is often used erroneously, as can be seen here. It's proper definition can be found at Rule 21 (a).
Rule 25 (b) talks of the lights referred to in Rule 25 (a) being 'combined in one lantern at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen.' Rule 25 concerns sailing vessels underway and vessels under oars only.
There is no mention of use of the lantern mentioned in Rule 25 in the rules for power driven vessels so it must not be used by them.

Annex 1 is not required to be learned by RYA Yachtmasters, thank goodness.

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[PerL]

If you only see a white light, you know nothing aboutr the heading.

It could be a small boat under power (see below), a boat being towed (they can be pretty far away from the towing vessel) or a vessel going away. Only a white light is a rather ambiguous sign.

I had a rather scary incident last week when doing a night passage in rather good conditions (no wind, small waves, fair visibility). I approached a vessel showing a regulation masttop light and a starboard light. Originally, I judged that we should have been on a non colliding course, but as we were getting closer, I altered my course somewhat to port so that we would pass at a safe distance. A few minutes later I again altered my course to port thinking that I had gotten myself off course before or simply misjudged something. When I had to alter my course a third time, I (and the crew) decided something was wrong, slowed down to just a few knots and tried desperately to follow the other vessel with the binoculars. At only 25-50 metres, the vessel passed and we could - to our amazement - see that the other vessel (a 35-40ft ysailing yacht) not only lacked a port light completely, but also had failed to shield the starboard so that it showed on both port and starboard side! We were somewhat taken aback by this incident. Makes you think twice before trusting the colregs blindly.

"23c (ii) a power-driven vessel of less than 7 metres in length whose maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and shall, if practicable, also exhibit sidelights."




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[chriscallender]

I know this is getting off beat, but does anyone else have the same trouble as me with vessels that are lit up like a Christmas tree. Often there are so many deck lights, flood lights, cabin lights etc. that picking out which ones are actually the nav lights is the first part of the problem. Personally I'd like to see some regulation that all unnecessary lights are switched off or not vissible from outside the ship. Maybe there is such a rule already? If so its not much enforced. Seems that this is done to an extent in aircraft when they always dim the lights in the cabin for landings.

Mind you my red-green colour blindness doesn't help..!

Chris

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[PerL]

When I did night navigation practical for my yachtmaster, we were in the shipping lanes entering Stockholm harbour. Someone was asked what a dozen flashing green, blue and red lights meant. The answer is of course a ship large enough to hold a disco floor.

Fishing vessels are quite good at keeping deck lights on to make it impossible to see any nav lights. In short, yes there is such a rule. And no, noone reinforces it. I have been on ferries where they pull down curtains to bar and disco floors when departing but this seems to be an exceptrion rather than a rule. My impression though is that the more modern ships are better at showing distinguisable nav lights than older ones.

Rule 20: "RULES CONCERNING LIGHTS SHALL BE COMPLIED WITH FROM SUNSET TO SUNRISE AND DURING SUCH TIMES NO OTHER LIGHTS SHALL BE EXHIBITED"


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[NigeCh]

That\'s incorrect ... you forgot to add ....

", except such lights as cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character, or interfere with the keeping of a proper look-out. "

Also look at what IRPCS says about what lights should be exibited by boats at anchor, aground or NUC.

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[Roberto]

Agree that fishing vessels are often the most difficult to identify, especially their nets which is quite unnerving: the textbook "all round white light in direction of net" seems to indicate they have at least fifteen nets all around them..

Another rather frightening sight, esp in southern adriatic/ionian, are police or CG fastboats patrolling those waters for illegal immigrants: they often are without any lights, one just hears a sudden engine noise woosshh while they pass a few meters away from the boat at 30-40kt, lucky if sometimes they flash a light towards you

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[PerL]

Welll. largely correct at least.

I not so much forgot to add as quoted an abridged source. My mistake. However, the only ones I can think of that "cannot be mistaken for [navlights]" are blue and flashing lights (unless yellow) and soft illumination of cabins etc. Most decklights on fishing vessels certainly doesn't qualify for this exemption. Neither does a ferry with a disco floor.

What is actually the difference between the ColRegs and IRPCS? Needless to say, both are probably called something completely different in my language...

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[peterb]

Colregs and IRPCS

The full title is the "International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea" That's a bit of a mouthful, so it can be abbreviated to "Colregs" or "IRPCS". In other words, all three titles refer to exactly the same set of rules.

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[h4nym]

Peter - sorry - I really hope I'm not being pedantic here, but where's the ambiguity with having 180 degree Nav Lights:

From astern, you'd see both red, white and green, in that order from the left - there's only one place you can be - behind a boat going the same way as you

If you can only see red and white, then you are behind her on her port sde and vice versa for green and white

If all you can see is red, you're abeam her on her port side

Surely better than just having the one white light to miss!

H

<hr width=100% size=1>Life balance?

 

[peterb]

You're thinking just about sailing boats. But if I see a white and a red, then I immediately think "Small power vessel seen from its port side". Remember that for a small (<12m) sailing boat under power, the steaming light and the stern light can be combined into a single all-round white, so the white can be high up. With such a system, and your 180 degree side lights, you couldn't tell whether you were in the overtaking sector or not.

You could, of course, say that the 180 degree side lights were only permissible whilst sailing, so that the presence of the white showed that you were overtaking, but how would you tell the difference between a sailing boat from the port quarter and a power boat from the port bow?

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