COLREG Survey - Familiarity with sailboat day signals

[NormanS]

Five pages of comments, some borderline rude, on someone asking why sailors in general don't obey the rules!

Maybe the rules are being broken because they are stupid rules. If your boat is on a mooring off Fort William, or wherever, you don't need an anchor ball. But if I anchor beside your boat, I am supposed to show one. Where's the logic in that?

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Maybe the rules are being broken because they are stupid rules. If your boat is on a mooring off Fort William, or wherever, you don't need an anchor ball. But if I anchor beside your boat, I am supposed to show one. Where's the logic in that?

The logic is probably that the rule can't be reliably customised for all situations, hence a blanket rule. It doesn't make the rule stupid e.g. when multiple Maersk Container ships were anchored just north of Great Cumbrae either side of the main fairway, could be interpreted as one heading towards the Largs channel if there was no day shape present showing anchored. I am sure in your example, no one would care, even those in a position to do something about it.

 

[NormanS]

The logic is probably that the rule can't be reliably customised for all situations, hence a blanket rule. It doesn't make the rule stupid e.g. when multiple Maersk Container ships were anchored just north of Great Cumbrae either side of the main fairway, could be interpreted as one heading towards the Largs channel if there was no day shape present showing anchored. I am sure in your example, no one would care, even those in a position to do something about it.

I suspect that when container ships are underway, their bow waves are bigger than the ball that they might show at anchor. ?

 

[FWB]

Maybe the rules are being broken because they are stupid rules. If your boat is on a mooring off Fort William, or wherever, you don't need an anchor ball. But if I anchor beside your boat, I am supposed to show one. Where's the logic in that?

The logic perhaps is that if the boat on the mooring is hit by another boat then his insurance will cover it. However if the anchored boat which is not displaying a ball may not be covered by his insurance if hit by another boat.

 

[srm]

Maybe the rules are being broken because they are stupid rules.

Rule 1
"(a) These Rules shall apply to all vessels upon the high seas and in all waters connected therewith navigable by seagoing vessels."

If you think they are stupid I suggest that you make you make your reasoning known to the IMO (International Maritime Organisation)
International Maritime Organization

I suspect that when container ships are underway, their bow waves are bigger than the ball that they might show at anchor.

A vessel "underway" may or may not have a bow (or stern) wave. Look it up!
The ColRegs are a legal document and words used have precise meanings.

However, as was noted in an earlier post, day signals, even when of the regulation size are often inconspicuous in relation to the size of the vessel.

 

[NormanS]

Rule 1
"(a) These Rules shall apply to all vessels upon the high seas and in all waters connected therewith navigable by seagoing vessels."

If you think they are stupid I suggest that you make you make your reasoning known to the IMO (International Maritime Organisation)
International Maritime Organization


A vessel "underway" may or may not have a bow (or stern) wave. Look it up!
The ColRegs are a legal document and words used have precise meanings.

However, as was noted in an earlier post, day signals, even when of the regulation size are often inconspicuous in relation to the size of the vessel.

I am well aware of the terms of the ColRegs. However, if rules are more often disobeyed rather than obeyed, it is fairly obvious that the rules are incorrectly drafted. I will, like the majority, use my common sense. I suspect that when the ColRegs were drafted, the huge increase in leisure sailing was not foreseen. It's high time they were brought up to date with reality.

 

[capnsensible]

Five pages of comments, some borderline rude, on someone asking why sailors in general don't obey the rules!

Simple. Too lazy.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Simple. Too lazy.

Not lazy - I assess the risk of going forward to hoist a day shape as exceeding the risks contingent on not displaying one. I am working on ensuring that as much sail handling etc. as possible is capable of being done from the cockpit, as I sail single-handed. As far as I'm concerned, trips to the foredeck merely to hoist or lower a shape that I regard as being at best of marginal utility are a risk I need not take.

BTW, I do carry a set of appropriate day shapes!

 

[capnsensible]

Clip on.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Clip on.

I do. But if I regard the risk of going forward to be high enough that I've spent significant amounts of money on bringing everything back to the cockpit (admittedly partly because my previous setup required a person in the cockpit and a person at the mast to reef) then it should be clear that I regard avoiding the risk entirely to be a better solution than mitigating the risk.

 

[ylop]

Maybe the rules are being broken because they are stupid rules. If your boat is on a mooring off Fort William, or wherever, you don't need an anchor ball. But if I anchor beside your boat, I am supposed to show one. Where's the logic in that?

it is reasonable to expect boats to be in the location of moorings, and I can see why at the time the rules were written it was perhaps not practical to display a light (and if not a light why a dayshape) for boats that would be left there for weeks on end. I would suggest your logic may be flipped around and in light of modern technology we ask - why not display an anchor light on a mooring too?

If you are just outside the mooring field (anchoring in amongst moorings being a high risk of entanglement)

The logic perhaps is that if the boat on the mooring is hit by another boat then his insurance will cover it. However if the anchored boat which is not displaying a ball may not be covered by his insurance if hit by another boat.

the colregs are nothing to do with insurance - they are a tool to help other water users - who might be local or from the otherside of the planet understand what your boat is doing. Its basically a courtesy to others.

I am well aware of the terms of the ColRegs. However, if rules are more often disobeyed rather than obeyed, it is fairly obvious that the rules are incorrectly drafted. I will, like the majority, use my common sense. I suspect that when the ColRegs were drafted, the huge increase in leisure sailing was not foreseen. It's high time they were brought up to date with reality.

more likely that if rarely enforced they become ignored and then Those who follow are laughed at for sticking to the rules. Like speeding, or parking on double yellows but with even less risk of any punishment - often disobeyed but not fundamentally bad rules.

 

[gordmac]

Maybe the rules are being broken because they are stupid rules. If your boat is on a mooring off Fort William, or wherever, you don't need an anchor ball. But if I anchor beside your boat, I am supposed to show one. Where's the logic in that?

From this thread I get the impression if I see a sail boat without a full compliment of sails I should assume it is a motor boat, perhaps some sort of official indication isn't such a bad idea?

 

[boomerangben]

Slight drift - white lights at night: stern light? boat at anchor? Boat less than 7m Motoring/sailing/rowing? Someone's porch light on the coast? Quite frankly shapes and lights are somewhat less that ideal in terms of avoidance of confusion

 

[Black Sheep]

Interpretation of white light	Appropriate action
Stern light	I am the overtaking vessel - Keep clear
Boat at anchor	Keep clear
Boat less than 7m Motoring/sailing/rowing	Keep clear
Someone's porch light on the coast	Probably best to keep clear.

Despite many interpretations, the action is consistent - single constant white light: keep clear.

 

[boomerangben]

Interpretation of white light	Appropriate action
Stern light	I am the overtaking vessel - Keep clear
Boat at anchor	Keep clear
Boat less than 7m Motoring/sailing/rowing	Keep clear
Someone's porch light on the coast	Probably best to keep clear.

Despite many interpretations, the action is consistent - single constant white light: keep clear.

So the solution to simplifying understanding Colregs is:

Use a boat under 7m. Or sit and watch from the security of your porch

 

[Poignard]

Simple. Too lazy.

Mea culpa

 

[Frank Holden]

Why black? Its the most highly visible colour ( at sea) - that's why fisherman put black flags on their net and pot markers.

Moving right along. While I knew about motoring shapes and had/have a motoring shape on my boat I had never ever seen one deployed in my ( at the time) 30 somethings years at sea.
So there I was - doing my YachtMasters on the Solent - sent frd to deploy the motoring cone.

Well its common sense isn't it - the pointy end would point up - No?

ooopsy

 

[Biggles Wader]

Simple. Too lazy.

That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it

 

[capnsensible]

That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it

Mine too when I don't bother to put a cone up when I'm leisure sailing. Don't need any of the threads wriggly excuses to risk ignoring a rule.

 

[capnsensible]

Why black? Its the most highly visible colour ( at sea) - that's why fisherman put black flags on their net and pot markers.

Moving right along. While I knew about motoring shapes and had/have a motoring shape on my boat I had never ever seen one deployed in my ( at the time) 30 somethings years at sea.
So there I was - doing my YachtMasters on the Solent - sent frd to deploy the motoring cone.

Well its common sense isn't it - the pointy end would point up - No?

ooopsy

It's not nicknamed the 'RYA burgee' for nothing....

Or 'Examiner Onboard'.

Have used it extensively around the Straits of Gibraltar however as its a busy area. It's helpful to indicate to all those other vessels that despite having a sail up, you are using your engine to propel the yacht and will maneuver as a power driven vessel.