Child overboard

[pugwash]

I have always paid a lot of attention to posts and magazine stories about man overboard drills and I have a system figured out on my boat for using the spinnaker haliard and winch etc to get a person on board again.

Last weekend I sailed in the Solent (beautiful!) with my two grandchildren aged ten and eight who were fitted out in the new approved lifejackets (one 'Spiral' and one 'Baltic') their parents had bought for use in their new Rib. They were bright orange affairs with big collars and zip-up fronts. You see them on kids everywhere.

I got to wondering as we drifted along in the sunshine how I'd get one of them back on board. My freeboard is not great and I can touch the surface of the sea with fingertips if I kneel down and stretch but this wouldn't help much.

There is nowhere to hook them with a boat hook. There is no loop strong enough to clip or thread a line for lifting or keeping them on board. No crutch straps so if I pulled them up by the collar there's a good chance they'd slip out. I came to the conclusion these approved devices are scandalously inadequate. Yes, they'd keep the wearer afloat. But they'd contribute nothing to his rescue unless, perhaps, you were in a Rib or dinghy.

I'm not talking about mid Channel in the middle of the night, when you'd definitely click them on by way of an extra harness. Under sail I make sure they stay in the cockpit in any case. If I had a dinghy towing astern I'd certainly use it but usually I leave it on the buoy. In fact, even my dog is better protected than the kids because his lifejacket has a carrying handle or loop that can be picked up by a boathook.

An incident is most likely to happen on a quiet sunny day because that's when you relax and let the kids sit up front, and so on. So what would you do? How would you get a child back? At this moment I have no idea.

Any thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Tape Looped Through Shoulder Straps

Child lifejackets used to have a stout loop on the front for grabbing and hauling out but now that you mention it none of mine do either.

You could make a tape loop after feeding the line through the shoulder straps such that it was snug enough not to flap about but loose enough to grab by hand or boat hook.

 

[T_C]

Last weekend I sailed in the Solent (beautiful!) with my two grandchildren aged ten and eight who were fitted out in the new approved lifejackets (one 'Spiral' and one 'Baltic') their parents had bought for use in their new Rib. They were bright orange affairs with big collars and zip-up fronts. You see them on kids everywhere.

I got to wondering as we drifted along in the sunshine how I'd get one of them back on board. My freeboard is not great and I can touch the surface of the sea with fingertips if I kneel down and stretch but this wouldn't help much.

There is nowhere to hook them with a boat hook. There is no loop strong enough to clip or thread a line for lifting or keeping them on board. No crutch straps so if I pulled them up by the collar there's a good chance they'd slip out. I came to the conclusion these approved devices are scandalously inadequate. Yes, they'd keep the wearer afloat. But they'd contribute nothing to his rescue unless, perhaps, you were in a Rib or dinghy.

I think you may have answered your own question. The LJ's I have for our children have always had D rings on the back, and crotch straps. We they were younger we used to regularly lift them up by the D ring to get them on and off the boat.

When you say these particular LJs are approved, who approves them?

 

[Sandyman]

I think the first thing I would do would be to look at modifying the lifejackets with the addition of a crutch strap and a D ring.

 

[fireball]

At the age of four I was able to cling on to a massive pole and pulled onto a yacht ... the massive pole was (iirc!) the spinnaker pole.

Unless the child is unconscious or in a fit of panic then you have several options open to you. The first would be to get a bowline down to them that they can slip into around their chest. You've then got them attached and may be able to hoist them aboard. If conditions allow I would always go for a boarding ladder (and a line) so they can climb up themselves.

If they're in a panic and unresponsive or unconscious then I'm probably going to hit the DSC panic button, tie a line onto me and jump over ... having stopped the boat first of course!

 

[pvb]

Last weekend I sailed in the Solent (beautiful!) with my two grandchildren aged ten and eight who were fitted out in the new approved lifejackets (one 'Spiral' and one 'Baltic') their parents had bought for use in their new Rib. They were bright orange affairs with big collars and zip-up fronts.

The Crewsaver Spiral lifejackets are supposed to have crutch straps as standard, so is it possible these had been removed?

The Baltic child's lifejackets are also supposed to have a crutch strap as standard, and a lifting handle under the collar.

 

[alant]

I have always paid a lot of attention to posts and magazine stories about man overboard drills and I have a system figured out on my boat for using the spinnaker haliard and winch etc to get a person on board again.

Last weekend I sailed in the Solent (beautiful!) with my two grandchildren aged ten and eight who were fitted out in the new approved lifejackets (one 'Spiral' and one 'Baltic') their parents had bought for use in their new Rib. They were bright orange affairs with big collars and zip-up fronts. You see them on kids everywhere.

I got to wondering as we drifted along in the sunshine how I'd get one of them back on board. My freeboard is not great and I can touch the surface of the sea with fingertips if I kneel down and stretch but this wouldn't help much.

There is nowhere to hook them with a boat hook. There is no loop strong enough to clip or thread a line for lifting or keeping them on board. No crutch straps so if I pulled them up by the collar there's a good chance they'd slip out. I came to the conclusion these approved devices are scandalously inadequate. Yes, they'd keep the wearer afloat. But they'd contribute nothing to his rescue unless, perhaps, you were in a Rib or dinghy.

I'm not talking about mid Channel in the middle of the night, when you'd definitely click them on by way of an extra harness. Under sail I make sure they stay in the cockpit in any case. If I had a dinghy towing astern I'd certainly use it but usually I leave it on the buoy. In fact, even my dog is better protected than the kids because his lifejacket has a carrying handle or loop that can be picked up by a boathook.

An incident is most likely to happen on a quiet sunny day because that's when you relax and let the kids sit up front, and so on. So what would you do? How would you get a child back? At this moment I have no idea.

Any thoughts?

Just as a matter of interest, do they have crotch straps? (must read other posts)

Looked at them briefly in boatshow & astonished (not sure why) to find these are 150 newton, for small children. Also that the foam is different thicknesses each side - not sure my own kids were.

 

[prv]

Looked at them briefly in boatshow & astonished (not sure why) to find these are 150 newton, for small children.

I think the "150 newton" thing confusingly refers to a particular standard, rather than literally meaning that a jacket contains 15 litres of air (ie 15 kgs of buoyancy). For kids' jackets, the actual buoyancy will be reduced in proportion.

Pete

 

[l'escargot]

Your problem is that they are buoyancy aids and not lifejackets, they are only intended to keep people afloat who are able to help themselves or who can be rescued using additional means such as a recovery sling. They are not intended to provide a means of recovery as well.

 

[pvb]

Looked at them briefly in boatshow & astonished (not sure why) to find these are 150 newton, for small children.

The 150N kids' jackets are usually air/foam, rather than all foam. More usually, kids' jackets are all foam and 100N.

 

[Grumpybear]

our 3 yr old granddaughter's Baltic LJ has a webbing loop at the back of the collar, a steel D ring at the back of the belt, a plastic D ring at the front of the belt and a crutch strap. no problem with any of that.

 

[pvb]

Your problem is that they are buoyancy aids and not lifejackets, they are only intended to keep people afloat who are able to help themselves or who can be rescued using additional means such as a recovery sling. They are not intended to provide a means of recovery as well.

I'd disagree - buoyancy aids tend to have foam on front and back; lifejackets only have foam on front so as to turn the child on to its back. Also, buoyancy aids only usually provide about 50N floatation.

 

[prv]

Your problem is that they are buoyancy aids and not lifejackets

The Crewsaver brochure has the Spiral (I couldn't find the Baltic) on the "lifejackets" page and uses the term "lifejacket" in its description. I don't think they're the sort of people to mix up the definitions.

Pete

 

[l'escargot]

The Crewsaver brochure has the Spiral (I couldn't find the Baltic) on the "lifejackets" page and uses the term "lifejacket" in its description. I don't think they're the sort of people to mix up the definitions.

Pete

They can call it what they like, it probably vaguely falls into the lifejacket category because it will turn the casualty face up under controlled conditions. They have no crutch strap, no harness, no lifting strap/eye and no way of adding additional buoyancy. Nor can they be used to recover a casualty. They are only suitable for use as a buoyancy aid and the OP clearly considers it inadequate for what he wants - probably best suited to use on beaches or dinghies and not suited for open water or falling from a larger boat There are plenty of alternatives out there that are more than adequate and will meet his requirements or alternatively he could buy one of the various MOB recovery devices.

 

[pvb]

They have no crutch strap

I think you'll find they do.

 

[l'escargot]

I think you'll find they do.

I think if you read his original post, he says they don't.

 

[[2068]]

Spiral Lifejacket

Baby, Child, Junior and Adult 100N foam lifejacket for use in sheltered coastal waters
Inexpensive, entry level lifejacket
Complete with crutch straps
Modern stylish design

######

Crutch straps probably removable, and got lost.
Their Junior 150n auto inflate is a better bet for older children.

 

[Hazymoonshine]

Children on board - or overboard

I have three children, 8, 6 and 4 who have sailed all their lives. Their lifejackets have, and have always had leg straps and D rings front and back (or a lifting beckett as I think it's known?).

I regard these things as absolutely essential and on the basis that prevention is better than rescue, wouldn't even consider a lifejacket that didn't have them. The children are always strapped on when on deck at sea - and having D rings front and back it's never a problem for them clipping on.

Interestingly, two of them have ended up in the sea, but in both cases they were knocked off pontoons and were both grabbed very quickly by the adult that knocked them in (no, not me, passing strangers in both cases!!)

So what? The right lifejacket spec is absolutely critical. If it doesn't have leg straps etc it's a waste of space and I certainly wouldn't have it on my boat where a child's life is at stake.

Best wishes

HM

 

[pvb]

I think if you read his original post, he says they don't.

But the manufacturer says they do have crutch straps. Who would you believe?

 

[alant]

I think the "150 newton" thing confusingly refers to a particular standard, rather than literally meaning that a jacket contains 15 litres of air (ie 15 kgs of buoyancy). For kids' jackets, the actual buoyancy will be reduced in proportion.

Pete

The crewsavers I looked at, had 100 newton from fixed foam & topped up by oral inflation to 150 newton. The foam was differnt thickness on righthand compared to left, so as to rotate user in water.