Caught by the scamera

[WannabePirate]

In another instance a yacht was sailing west between the shipping lanes in the middle of the channel in the Dover Straights between the TSS. he strayed into one of the shipping lanes and he too was fined more than £10,000. Whilst the offence was serious I strongly believe that the fine was unjust, the skipper was not a wealthy owner but a professional engaged for a delivery trip. This happened more than 20 years ago so the fine was huge and would have caused considerable hardship, for a stupid infraction and loss of concentration.

Just a quick note, colregs rule 10 part e forbids entering a separation zone. This is the zone you are talking about the yacht travelling in BEFORE straying into the shipping lane. Rules were being distinctly broke before you even realise rules were being broken.

A professional engaged on a trip really should know this, and as a professional who was involved in a nearly identical situation on a delivery near the casquets TSS last autumn, I can promise you quite a lot of the industry 20 years still think its a big deal. Getting into a situation like this isn't a loss of concentration. It takes a long time. It takes negligence.

I've spoke about the situation with RNLI volunteers and skippers, people with 500k+ miles...a lot of sailors with tonnes of valuable, considered, experience...all have agreed this is quite a big deal. I asked a lot of people their opinions because I had disobeyed a captains orders quite thoroughly because it seemed unsafe, but the captain had 300k+ miles and I have about 10k+. So I was unsure about myself after. Most people admonished me for not doing more.

You may wish to refresh your colregs and have a think about this one. It's my opinion seeing the general standard of these skippers they should be barred from working professionally which would cause much more hardship to them.

 

[fisherman]

So, what about the local gig club? A gig will easily exceed 6kts, (with little or no wash) I wonder if they do. The limit is for Falmouth inner harbour, the sign is on the Eastern Arm, so I suppose, inside a line from E arm to ?Trefusis point?

"There is a six-knot speed limit within the Penryn River, Falmouth inner harbour and north of Turnaware Bar; and a five-knot speed limit within Percuil River, St Mawes, Portscatho, St Just Creek, Restronguet Creek and Mylor Creek. Please observe these limits."

 

[Bouba]

This is really a debate with no winners....if you think that the punishment was appropriate then you are prejudiced against motorboaters...if you think it was draconian then you are unsafe on the water

 

[Stemar]

RIBs have more wake when slow. At 18kt it would be planing and would have done no damage.

Granted, it's probable that the wake at 12 knots would have been worse, but the wake at 6 knots would have been minimal. I don't know if Falmouth does, but many harbours with a speed limit also have a "no wake" rule.

It wasn't just speed he was charged with, it was also failing to navigate with care and caution. While it's pure speculation, that sounds to me as though he was zooming around the boats on their moorings. In motoring terms, not just speeding, but driving without due care and attention.

BTW, pace Bouba, I've nothing against mobos, unless it's jealousy when I'm out on the helm in the wind and rain and they're inside in the warm and dry. It's the prats on the water on any sort of boat I'm prejudiced against.

 

[Geoff Wode]

Not in control of the boat? Really?

Yes, really. He was on the phone so he wasn’t in control of the boat, unless he has 3 arms. No cord.

It’s rubbish driving and his speed was 3x the harbour limit. There’s no consideration to be given. Maybe it’ll make few other people consider their own practice.

 

[johnalison]

Yes, really. He was on the phone so he wasn’t in control of the boat, unless he has 3 arms. No cord.

It’s rubbish driving and his speed was 3x the harbour limit. There’s no consideration to be given. Maybe it’ll make few other people consider their own practice.

The absence of a kill cord could also have endangered others if he had been disabled for any reason. It is quite right that boaters should be held to high standards, if only because of the environment. Drivers on the road should also be controlled, but it is accepted that even competent drivers are capable of misjudgement, not all of which are culpable, but someone in charge of a boat has plenty of time to react in, and apart from mechanical dysfunction dangerous situations are almost always the result of someone’s behaviour.

 

[doug748]

There have been deaths in Falmouth and Padstow caused by dreadful behaviour by high speed small boats, so I guess a big brother response is inevitable. Don't like it one bit but these people bring it on us all.

I note that this character was also operating unnecessarily between moorings, anyone thinking that is ok should be sentenced to 5 years on a swinging mooring which would rapidly sort their ideas out.
The general standard of seamanship in summer, particularly after dark, on the Fal and Helford is dire. Rowing a small dinghy is like crossing the M25 in snow shoes.

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[lustyd]

Yes, really. He was on the phone so he wasn’t in control of the boat, unless he has 3 arms. No cord.

It’s rubbish driving and his speed was 3x the harbour limit. There’s no consideration to be given. Maybe it’ll make few other people consider their own practice.

lol I’ve been below boiling the kettle on my boat before. It’s not a car and it’s not on a road. Have some perspective.
Dame Ellen MacArthur was asleep for a good deal of her solo trips, and she was given an honour!

 

[Stingo]

lol I’ve been below boiling the kettle on my boat before. It’s not a car and it’s not on a road. Have some perspective.
Dame Ellen MacArthur was asleep for a good deal of her solo trips, and she was given an honour!

Exactly. When I crossed the pond single-handed, I  often went down below and slept for a few hours. None of that ten minute napping nonsense. On another fully crewed crossing, with someone constantly on watch, we went two weeks without spotting anything. There was absolutely nothing out there; no ships, fishing boats, seagulls, dolphins.... nothing.

Okay, in a harbour entrance, that's a different story

 

[Bob@SYH]

I am not a violent man, but wonder if harbour masters would consider arming their vessels with Barrett 50 calibre rifles as it might act as a deterrent?

In Kos Harbour they eschew the Barrett in favour of the .50 Browning... with which you can deter several miscreants at the same time

 

[wonkywinch]

Was there any dialogue with the HM? Rather embarrassingly I drove a rib up Southampton water at 25kts and turned into the Itchen missing the 6kts sign posted on the buoys as the wind had turned them round. HM was nearby, spun round and came up to rollock me. I was extremely humble, admitted my error, apologised profusely and was let off with a verbal warning.

I had a kill cord, both hands on helm etc. I do wonder whether attitude played any part of this as there are a proportion of a$$holes on the water as there are the roads.

 

[lustyd]

Okay, in a harbour entrance, that's a different story

But harbour probably resembles the ocean than the A30 so we shouldn't lose our minds if someone only has one hand on the wheel.

 

[Geoff Wode]

lol I’ve been below boiling the kettle on my boat before. It’s not a car and it’s not on a road. Have some perspective.
Dame Ellen MacArthur was asleep for a good deal of her solo trips, and she was given an honour!

18kts in a Corribee? Good effort Dame Ellen!

Stop comparing apples with oranges.

Singlehanding, on passage, in a sailboat, miles from the shore and other traffic is a world away from operating a rib in a harbour.

Stop pretending you can’t tell the difference in order to continue to make your point. It’s daft!

 

[Geoff Wode]

But harbour probably resembles the ocean than the A30 so we shouldn't lose our minds if someone only has one hand on the wheel.

I don’t know about your car but mine is pretty hard to fall out of on the A30. I’m also pretty sure if I did, it wouldn’t loop back at speed and mince me or some other poor sod until it ran out of fuel.

 

[MisterBaxter]

In Kos Harbour they eschew the Barrett in favour of the .50 Browning... with which you can deter several miscreants at the same time View attachment 173164

I sailed into Plymouth once and was greeted and escorted to the Tamar by a RIB full of stern-looking marines brandishing submachine guns. I don't think they were especially concerned with boat speed though...

 

[Stingo]

I sailed into Plymouth once and was greeted and escorted to the Tamar by a RIB full of stern-looking marines brandishing submachine guns. I don't think they were especially concerned with boat speed though...

Go on, tell us what they were concerned with?

 

[lustyd]

Go on, tell us what they were concerned with?

When it happened to me in Portsmouth harbour they were concerned that I was within 50 yards of the aircraft carrier. When I throttled forwards they did then shout something about a speed limit but I was already leaving due to the guns!

 

[Juan Twothree]

In another instance a yacht was sailing west between the shipping lanes in the middle of the channel in the Dover Straights between the TSS. he strayed into one of the shipping lanes and he too was fined more than £10,000. Whilst the offence was serious I strongly believe that the fine was unjust, the skipper was not a wealthy owner but a professional engaged for a delivery trip. This happened more than 20 years ago so the fine was huge and would have caused considerable hardship, for a stupid infraction and loss of concentration.

If it's the same case I'm thinking of, he didn't just stray into the lanes in a momentary loss of concentration. That happens all the time, and no one gets prosecuted.

What this chap did was to sail almost the entire length of the TSS going NE in the middle of the SW lane.

Whilst there is no mandatory requirement to monitor the VHF, had he done so he would have heard all the calls from Dover CG and shipping trying to get him to move out of the lane.

 

[MisterBaxter]

Go on, tell us what they were concerned with?

Same as Lustyd - there was a ship moored up that they wanted me to steer a very long way around. I was still a couple of hundred metres away but they presented quite a persuasive case for an early course correction.

 

[Stemar]

At one point there was a QHM NtM that talked about being warned off if one strayed too close to the big grey things. It ended something like 'ignore the warnings and you will be deemed to have hostile intent'. Don't know if it still applies, but I've no intention of finding out.