Buying second hand sails pro's and cons= value for money

[markspark7]

Having recently purchased my first sailing yacht after owning 11 MB's I now have a list of new jobs to do that I've never had to do before.
One of the main ones is the purchase of some replacement sails.

My plans for this boat are to "do it up" over a period of four to five years but still leaving it usable to be able to launch should the mood and weather permit.
What is the general consensus among the group between buying new or pre used sails? The boat in question is 44ft so I appreciate is not going to be cheap either way.
I intend to keep the boat for 4-5 years until semi retirement and the arrival of a much newer vessel arrives , paid for with my long suffering children's inheritance. The current one will purely be a teaching vessel to teach myself and SWMBO how to sail a 45-50ft yacht short handed before the Greece and the Med beckon.

 

[scottie]

First thing perhaps is an inventory

 

[Tranona]

Finding good used sails is a challenge - few people sell sails that have any life left in them. Add to that unless your boat is a popular design the chances of finding ones that fit are vanishingly small.. My advice (which I am following myself!) is that if you are expecting 5 years use, bite the bullet and buy new, good quality dacron sails and enjoy them while you are learning. Sailmaking is a very competitive business so shop around. Some Far East lofts are competitive, but having just gone through the process not enough to compete with a local loft who measured up, custom made and fitted the sails.

If you want to get an idea how much sails are likely to cost then try here e-sails.com made in UK and because the choice of "extras" is limited and you have to do your own measuring they are a worthwhile amount cheaper than having a custom made sail from the same loft.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Having recently purchased my first sailing yacht after owning 11 MB's I now have a list of new jobs to do that I've never had to do before.
One of the main ones is the purchase of some replacement sails.

My plans for this boat are to "do it up" over a period of four to five years but still leaving it usable to be able to launch should the mood and weather permit.
What is the general consensus among the group between buying new or pre used sails? The boat in question is 44ft so I appreciate is not going to be cheap either way.
I intend to keep the boat for 4-5 years until semi retirement and the arrival of a much newer vessel arrives , paid for with my long suffering children's inheritance. The current one will purely be a teaching vessel to teach myself and SWMBO how to sail a 45-50ft yacht short handed before the Greece and the Med beckon.

Apologies that I can't contribute anything on the substantive issue, as, luckily for me, both my present boat and my previous one came with almost new sails, but could I suggest that you and your wife take courses , (separately,because she'l learn more that way ), then use the boat to practice what you have been taught on the course. You can learn more in a week with an instructor than you can in months trying to work it out, sometimes incorrectly, for yourself. A Theory Course would also be advisable first, if you and your wife have not already done one.

 

[penfold]

What's wrong with the sails it came with?

 

[jamie N]

I used this company to buy a 2nd hand spinnaker, and would be quite happy to deal with them again.
The sail was accurately described, and not 'over-sold'.

 

[doug748]

You would have to have a heart like a lion to have anything to do with a certain outfit in South Devon. Googlise it.

 

[Sandy]

If you are only planning to own the boat for four or five years why bother putting 'pre-loved' sails on her? Before you do anything take the sails to a sailmaker and get their opinion on them.

 

[zoidberg]

I was once persuaded to offer my 'came with the boat' sails to that outfit not far east of Plymouth for minor 'fettling' on the basis that they can't do much harm. Wrong!

That was the exception. While few - perhaps none - sailmakers will actually live up to anything resembling a deadline commitment, almost all will give you an honest appraisal of your used sails and genuinely suggest 'repairs and tweaks' which will let you get some useful life from them. So I'd encourage you to find someone local you get along with, and have them 'fettle' your used sails. They'll work OK on yourboat. Use them to learn.

It's not necessarily true that used sails are completely shot.

For example, I've just ordered a set of 2 furling headsails and a new fully-battened mainsail, because the sailmaker was a superb sailesman!
The older set had years left in 'em, but perhaps I don't.

Someone is going to get a rather good mainsail for peanuts.... and 3 assorted hanked-on jibs.

 

[srm]

If buying used sails ask why they are being sold. If they have been replaced then again, why. I suspect that usable sails are still in use and most surplus sails have lost their shape, otherwise why not keep them. Hank on head sails that have been changed for new roller reefing ones are a possible exception.

 

[Koeketiene]

Having recently purchased my first sailing yacht after owning 11 MB's I now have a list of new jobs to do that I've never had to do before.
One of the main ones is the purchase of some replacement sails.

My plans for this boat are to "do it up" over a period of four to five years but still leaving it usable to be able to launch should the mood and weather permit.
What is the general consensus among the group between buying new or pre used sails? The boat in question is 44ft so I appreciate is not going to be cheap either way.
I intend to keep the boat for 4-5 years until semi retirement and the arrival of a much newer vessel arrives , paid for with my long suffering children's inheritance. The current one will purely be a teaching vessel to teach myself and SWMBO how to sail a 45-50ft yacht short handed before the Greece and the Med beckon.

If your intention is to keep the boat for only 4-5 years, I would make do with the sails that came with the boat (as long as they are usable).
Decent new sails can be expensive and only make sense if you plan to sail the boat for quite a number of years.

 

[penfold]

If your intention is to keep the boat for only 4-5 years, I would make do with the sails that came with the boat (as long as they are usable).
Decent new sails can be expensive and only make sense if you plan to sail the boat for quite a number of years.

Even rubbish new sails for a 44' boat will be the thick end of £10k.

 

[coopec]

Every year for some reason I get contacted by this crowd offering secondhand sails (I have no idea how reputable they are)

New & Used Sails - Sail Exchange

 

[srm]

Just a note of warning about measuring sails as you are unlikely to be offered ones that are for your exact model.

The true length of luff (and foot if relevant) is when the sail is correctly tensioned on the spars. However, people often measure with the sail lying on a flat surface and the edge pulled more or less straight by hand. This can give a significant difference.

When ordering sails I always give the maximum (tensioned) length by measuring the spars. However, if a used sail is said to be that length but was measured on the ground you would not be able to pull the sail out to its correct shape.

My current boat came with a near new set of far eastern sails that were all too short. The main's luff almost embarasingly so. I assume the previous owner had measured his old sails rather than the spars, and given those dimensions to the sailmaker. Incidentally, I would not recommend the sailmaker, as the sails were obviously built down to a price using the lightest and cheapest cloth he could get away with. The main is fully battened, and I made some alterations, so it has lasted reasonably well but the high cut jib was already blown out of shape and baggy when I got the boat.

 

[markspark7]

Apologies that I can't contribute anything on the substantive issue, as, luckily for me, both my present boat and my previous one came with almost new sails, but could I suggest that you and your wife take courses , (separately, because she'l learn more that way ), then use the boat to practice what you have been taught on the course. You can learn more in a week with an instructor than you can in months trying to work it out, sometimes incorrectly, for yourself. A Theory Course would also be advisable first, if you and your wife have not already done one.

We've both done Day Skipper (Theory & Practical) , essential navigation and I've done yacht master as well. The practice is for getting used to a boat of that size with just the two of us onboard instead of the usual crew of 6 or 7 we generally have on board.
learning to sale isnt the problem, learning to sale short handed whilst doing Med moorings is . If we can sail on the Mersey two up in a 45ft boat then we cam sail anywhere.

 

[markspark7]

What's wrong with the sails it came with?

Genoa just needs a wash and UV strip replacing however FB main is like a pair of grannies bloomers swinging in the wind.
Boat is nearly 30 year old and wouldn't surprise me if its the original the boat came with.

 

[penfold]

There you go, that's halved the bill already!

 

[neil_s]

It depends on your attitude to boating as a whole - if you're prepared to get stuck in and fix up or repair kit, then that works for sails, too. You say your main is pooped and 30 years old, but I have just retired a 45 year old sail. I got fed up of sewing patches on it every few weeks - but it still had a reasonable shape. Second hand sails can work, but you need to accept that they have been discarded for a reason. If you can fix that reason, then go for it!

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

We've both done Day Skipper (Theory & Practical) , essential navigation and I've done yacht master as well. The practice is for getting used to a boat of that size with just the two of us onboard instead of the usual crew of 6 or 7 we generally have on board.
learning to sale isnt the problem, learning to sale short handed whilst doing Med moorings is . If we can sail on the Mersey two up in a 45ft boat then we cam sail anywhere.

You're both well set up then and really only require practice.
Generally, from what I have seen of med mooring, there are usually a couple of 'marineros" on hand, to hold up the 'slimeline' for you, and to take your stern lines and hand them back. You could practice falling back on your anchor at some convenient marina hammerhead or a (non busy) town quay.
I have no experience of buying used sails, but logic tells me that retired cruising sails are likely to be well-used, whereas keen racers tend to renew their sails quite frequently, so racing ones might be worth considering. A used racing mainsail could get you through your intended four-year programme with this boat.

 

[Tranona]

We've both done Day Skipper (Theory & Practical) , essential navigation and I've done yacht master as well. The practice is for getting used to a boat of that size with just the two of us onboard instead of the usual crew of 6 or 7 we generally have on board.
learning to sale isnt the problem, learning to sale short handed whilst doing Med moorings is . If we can sail on the Mersey two up in a 45ft boat then we cam sail anywhere.

One of the important things to take into account if you are Med bound is to recognise that life on board is very different from cruising in northern climes. Perhaps the best investment you could make, if you have not already done so is to charter a similar size boat in Greece for a couple of weeks. This will get you experience on both how to live in hot climates plus experience of handling a big boat short handed. Appreciating what is required will help enormously with choosing and equipping you boat for the project.

The key things to understand are the limitations of you as a crew and how to overcome or at least minimise them. The two main areas from a boat handling point of view are handling large sail areas and parking the boat. Therefore not difficult to see the value of such aids as in mast furling, electric winches, big engines, bow thrusters, good anchors and anchor handling. What is often forgotten is that once you have sailed past Gib the balance of sailing/motoring/stationary changes dramatically and rather than worrying about coping with sailing in big seas and watching weather forecasts the emphasis is on motoring, finding somewhere to park and living comfortably on a boat in 30 degrees plus. It is therefore no surprise to see that boats designed primarily for the Med differ somewhat from those produced in N Europe or Scandinavia. Open spaces, big cockpits, open transoms, lots of shade, big water tanks, lots of ventilation etc become necessities to take advantage of what the Med has to offer.

Of course, one will have to compromise. If the objective is to wander round the Med (not so easy for Brits these days) then it really makes sense to buy a boat out there. If however the journey out there is a big part of the project then the compromise is greater, but you will bless your choice of large aft cockpit, bathing platform, simple rig, big engine, lots of opening portholes, decent anchor and windlass and so on every time you want to spend a night backed up to a Greek village quay or anchored in a bay where a swim before dinner is the norm.

Not sure being able to sail in the Mersey is really a lot of help. Actually "sailing" is a very small part of successful long term cruising, particularly in the Med. Sort of gets back o your original question. Not sure that you will learn much extra from 4/5 years of sailing your current boat once you have sussed the areas of limitation and how to overcome them. If the mainsail is so bad that it affects the performance and enjoyment of the boat then replace it with new, even to a basic spec as you will get value out of it in the time you own the boat.