Buying my new toy

[Seajet]

Darter,

to add a bit more re keels.

Not just any twin keeler will do, there are some horrors out there, it's harder to design good twin keels thana fin or long keel.

They are not just handy for drying out on beaches, they also mean a cheaper and more sheltered drying mooring can be used, as long as the seabed is mud not sand, definitely not rock !

Come winter or maintainence, they can be simply craned out and plonked ashore, no faffing about with props, no worrying in gales, no paying staff to do the props.

However everything is a compromise, not so much performance which can be pretty good, but as an engineer, imagine the loads on splayed keels going in and out of mud twice a day all summer at least, taking the weight of the boat.

So keel bolts and mounting areas need keeping an eye on.

With fin keelers it's all pretty much as you'd expect, but she WILL have been run aground hard at points in her life; it's important to check with the boat lifted, look for any gap above the keel at the top of the leading edge, also impact damage into the hull at the top of the trailing edge.

One boat I'd heartily recommend if you can get one in budget is the Sadler 29, twin keel.

Sails very well, very seaworthy, a real sailor's boat. Not incredibly roomy but fine I'd say.

A Trapper 501 twin keel would be fine; a Sadler 29 twin keel would be great !

Obviously all just my opinions, but it is based on a fair few years at it, and trying the boats mentioned, in the case of the Sadler 29 there was a good one whose progress I followed at our club for years, no problems.

 

[[70521]]

Enjoy what ever you get and I hope to see you on the water.

 

[doug748]

Thank you, and if you can think of any more boats to look out for let me no, and any more info, i will be very grateful!!

Yours Aaron

PS if you want to see the two boats im looking at, they are on Apoll 1 is 6k and the other is 5.5k

Had a quick look but can't locate them. Could you post a link?

You are in an ace position, being in the trade and able to do structural and mechanical work. A smaller boat is generally just as expensive to put right as a roomier one so think on.

A bilge keeler could be useful for the trip Seajet has planned for you but if you prefer to make your own arrangements, they are not a universal choice in the South West, where deep water abounds.

For living aboard, 30ft ish is a great bonus. There are bargains about but, as you know, at your spending limit, you are sure to have a few things to put up with.

If you are worried that the Shamrock might be a bit flighty, have a look at this:

http://www.boatingworldsw.co.uk/#/winters-maid/4575745943

A steady older boat with reasonable accommodation.


Sorry, I meant to say that the price for this boat is still looking well over the top. The engine could well be iffy, who knows? Unless the sails are brand new and it is hiding some other magnificence, it is difficult to imagine over 6 - 7k in the present market.

 

[Seajet]

Darter,

whoever ' planned a trip for you ' it wasn't me, I simply mentioned the way a person starting in the West Country might typically progress their sailing over time.

The Trintella mentioned is a project; ' uprated 10hp engine ' - what was it before, an oar ? An old grp boat, and old cramped design.

With any of the boats you look at, remember to ask about the standing rigging, some insurers want it replaced every 10 years - a bit OTT but could be used as a bargaining chip.

Good 5mm rigging inc chrome bronze bottlescrews for my 22' cost just over £400 a few years ago but on a boat around 30' the costs will rise steeply.

Have fun looking !

 

[doug748]

...The Trintella mentioned is a project; ' uprated 10hp engine ' - what was it before, an oar ? An old grp boat, and old cramped design...

Project eh, old design, Coo, never thought of that.

Perhaps Darter should follow your advice and resume his search for a 7 grand Sadler 29. Don't forget to post a link to any leads you have got

 

[Darter]

Hay all, i have had loads of responses from sellers, and its a shame as the Shamrock's i have been thinking of are to much work for me, i didn't think they would be this basics inside:

http://www.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=374906 The owner is saying he has spent 13K on up keep, i love all that space below but but i would need to strip it completely out, and start again.

Doug748, i have sum info on that UFO 31, and it needs striping out, and masses of work, they have scrubbed down the hull, and no signs of osmosis.

seajet, thanks! i really like the Trapper 501, and the prices are not to for off, so i look into them, but one thing, they come under a motor sailer?
there is a trapper 950 going very cheap near me, but its racing set up again, but at 6k, and this one to, http://www.boatshed.com/trapper_950-boat-160201.html and my mooring only goes to 9 meeter's, but a nice looking boat, And what about this 400? http://www.boatshed.com/trapper_400-boat-160253.html

Daydream believer, i agree with you, im mainly interested in a fin keeler, where i be going it will be deep, im not interested in canals or stuf like that, and it is free for me to keep my boats in a boatyard, but i do wanna enter in sum club races regattas and such, so would like sum speed

Im really liking the Sadler 29!! so i start looking

Thank you all for your help, but i do now have brain pain lol.

PS when i was talking about the 25-27 footers it was more for using for 2 or so years, then selling an getting a biger boat to live on.

 

[Seajet]

Hi Darter,

the Trapper 501 may not be a rocket ship but it certainly isn't a motor sailor !

I have the original brochure for the Trapper 500, if you PM me an e-mail address I'd be happy to scan and send it.

The 500 was the original, and looks much the same; the 501 was the last edition, with a very nice teak interior and I believe detail changes to the windows, rudder and twin keels - think the fin stayed the same but owners here can confirm or refute that.

If you go for a fin keel you'll get a lot more boat for your money, but will be restricted, and around here on the Solent you can barey give away fin keelers under 30' due to berthing costs.

The T950 looks interesting, but one thing which stands out instantly is the tiny 9hp engine, which was small even when she was built and almost certainly means original engine, so in need of replacing unless you're very lucky indeed.

No harm going to look though, and even if you don't like a boat there are always ideas and features to store away in the brain.

I'll PM in a sec.

 

[Darter]

Thanks seajet and im just looking of this, and ins on my door steep too, http://www.boatshed.com/trapper_500-boat-117770.html

 

[Seajet]

Darter,

well she must be worth a look, even if as a taster for the design !

Original engine...if you're lucky it could be OK; as long as it works, not worth replacing, too expensive.

The interior is OK on the 500, much better on the 501.

A big decider on that one would be what sails does she have, and what condition ?

 

[lpdsn]

http://www.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=374906 The owner is saying he has spent 13K on up keep, i love all that space below but but i would need to strip it completely out, and start again.

To be fair, that's Silver Shamrock. I think she was one of the prototypes. I did once attend a talk by Ron Holland but I can't remember if Silver Shamrock or Golden Shamrock was his own boat. It would be a little bit like stripping out a listed building.

The owner may well have spend 13K, but I suspect a lot more went on sails than upkeep in the sense you imagine.

That said, the revived half-ton cup can be fun, with serious racing but a friendly atmosphere.

 

[Darter]

Yes i think it worth a look, but i would in no whey pay the asking price, lots to do, going by the photos, yes them sails could be the decider, and i wonder how many times that engine has been rebuilt?

 

[lpdsn]

Yes i think it worth a look, but i would in no whey pay the asking price, lots to do, going by the photos, yes them sails could be the decider, and i wonder how many times that engine has been rebuilt?

To be honest the sails are overkill unless you intend to race. Mylar sails need to be looked after properly too and can be easily trashed by inexperienced cruising crew/owners.

The engine may well not have been a priority. The half-tonner I raced on often coasted into her berth with the engine killed as reverse didn't work that well. Owners spent a fortune on her (but on sails, rigging, hull & keel prep etc. not the engine).

Quarter-tonners have had a lot of money thrown at them in recent years and it is starting to happen to the half-tonners too. I suspect someone will pay close to the asking price then spend a lot more on her.

It wouldn't be worth that much to you as you wouldn't want half the stuff that comes with her. Although there would be some second-hand value to those sails - depending upon condition - I suspect you'll find a lot more value elsewhere.

 

[Seajet]

Ipdsn,

I stand to be corrected but think Darter was referring to a Trapper 500 he has just spotted, the link is above.

 

[lpdsn]

Ipdsn,

I stand to be corrected but think Darter was referring to a Trapper 500 he has just spotted, the link is above.

Would be a better bet (not that I logged in to view the detailed photos). I see what Darter means about the asking price.

I'd also ask why if it has been with the same owner for a number of years he doesn't know how old the standing rigging is.